Debates of Nov. 23rd, 1994

Auditor General's Report

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, we have dealt with this question many times in the past.

If one looks clearly at the objectives set forward in the green book, in the various supplementary papers that we put forward, we are challenging members of Parliament, as we are challenging Canadians, to find a better way of delivering social programs, particularly to improve employment opportunities.

The whole purpose of revising and modernizing the unemployment insurance program and the Canada assistance program is to give unemployed Canadians, those on social benefits, a much better set of tools to help them get back into the workplace. That is the primary basis of reform.

The best way of dealing with a fiscal crisis is to have more people back at work.

Race Relations Foundation

[Jan Brown, Reform, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister.

The Canadian Race Relations Foundation will cost taxpayers $24 million. Of this, $3 million will go to pay the salaries of the 30 governor in council appointments.

When in opposition, the Liberal member from Scarborough-Agincourt challenged these appointments. He criticized their partisan nature by suggesting that the government would appoint only those people who support it and that the government would probably place as president of the foundation somebody who has raised funds for the government.

Given that the Prime Minister has recently made more patronage appointments, how can he guarantee that he will not fill the 30-odd appointments for this board with more Liberal hacks and bagmen?

[Sheila Finestone, Liberal, Secretary of State (Multiculturalism) (Status of Women)]

Mr. Speaker, in answer to my colleague, I sense a mean spirited approach behind her observations-

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

I am sure the hon. minister does not want to attribute motives. I would ask her to withdraw the words "mean spirited".

[Sheila Finestone, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I guess I really thought she was mean spirited but if that is-

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Will the minister withdraw?

[Sheila Finestone, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I apologize. I thought the remarks were without understanding of the wonderful appointments that our leader has made in the past. I am so proud of what he has already done that I was moved to a wrong observation in that regard of the character of the person.

[The Speaker]

Is there a withdrawal in there? Will the secretary of state withdraw?

[Sheila Finestone, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

With the greatest of respect to you, Mr. Speaker, of course I withdraw.

[Jan Brown, Reform, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I would really like an answer to my question today, but I will continue with my supplementary question.

The government appears bound and determined to spend more tax dollars on multiculturalism. During debate on the issue in 1990 the president of Canadian municipalities stated that social harmony cannot be created by posters, proclamations or literary contests or even by co-operation between business and government or by directed government action.

The real challenge is in the hearts and minds of each of us as individuals. When will the Prime Minister recognize the truth of that statement, terminate the Race Relations Foundation and save Canadian taxpayers $24 million?

[Sheila Finestone, Liberal, Secretary of State (Multiculturalism) (Status of Women)]

Mr. Speaker, to the hon. member, while we have not proclaimed the Race Relations Foundation as yet, we are a party and a government that believes in its commitment to the people of Canada and is committed to its word.

The member will find in the red book a strong undertaking about the Race Relations Foundation. The Prime Minister announced it in his speech from the throne. It was included in the finance minister's speech in the budget. We are committed and we will proclaim en temps et lieu.

Auditor General's Report

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Auditor General reminds us that recording revenue and expenditures of the UI account with those of the federal government distorts the government's budget results, since Ottawa has not contributed to the UI account since 1990. The account is financed entirely by workers and employers.

Does the Minister of Finance admit that, without the net surplus of $2.7 billion in the UI account, his deficit for the current year would not be $39.7 billion, as he claims, but about $42 billion?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, the federal government is responsible for any deficit in the UI account. True, the money comes from the private sector. However, since we are responsible for the deficit, if there is one, these figures must really be included in our budget. It is very clear that we are responsible.

Also, I must tell you that the Auditor General himself insists on this accounting policy.

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would remind the Minister of Finance that the Auditor General is not the only one denouncing this procedure. A recent report by the Canadian Institute of Actuaries stated that since the UI program is totally self-financed, the current mechanism distorts the government's budget results.

My supplementary question is for the Minister of Finance. Instead of using this questionable procedure to hide the government's disastrous financial situation and make himself look good as a manager of public funds, why does the Minister of Finance not use the UI account surplus to reduce employers' and

employees' premiums, thus creating thousands of jobs? He should cut the rhetoric and take action.

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, I repeat, the accounting procedure used by the government is the one that is suggested and on which the Auditor General himself insists. We are simply following his directives.

Second, about the government's ability to reduce UI premiums, the Minister of Human Resources Development, the Minister of Industry and myself all agree that it must be done.

That said, what the business community wants, really, is stable premiums. As soon as we have a surplus, as soon as we are really confident that we can reduce premiums, we will certainly do so.

Justice

[Peter Adams, Liberal, Peterborough, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Solicitor General.

A convicted pedophile who had served his full sentence came to Peterborough recently in a blaze of publicity. This was a shock for the entire community, for those concerned about children and for those who try to help former offenders.

The judicial and penal system has failed in this case. Can the parliamentary secretary inform us of the steps being taken to protect our children from dangerous offenders and improve the penal system?

[Patrick Gagnon, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, as my hon. colleague knows, there is presently a federal-provincial-territorial task force on the study of high risk offenders. This report will be brought to our attention early in the new year.

I should add that last week the Solicitor General also announced the creation of the Canadian police information centre which will screen out various individuals who wish to work with youth organizations across Canada. We will be sure that no sexual abusers are allowed to work with children.

I would conclude by saying that the announcement made by the minister is a follow up to our red book commitment to help prevent sexual abusers taking part in various organizations, volunteer organizations such as Big Sisters, Big Brothers, Scouts and whatnot.

I reassure the hon. member that it is our commitment to make sure we protect children.

Public Service

[Chuck Strahl, Reform, Fraser Valley East, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister responsible for Public Service Renewal.

Documents obtained through access to information reveal that the government has promised civil servants that it would honour the workforce adjustment policy which says in essence that civil servants cannot be laid off. Yet the minister has promised to cut $5 billion in government programs.

Attrition alone will not save $5 billion, so how does the minister propose to honour the workforce adjustment policy and his commitment to reduce the size of the public service at the same time?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for Infrastructure]

Mr. Speaker, we are currently in discussions and negotiations with the bargaining agents for the public service employees with respect to the workforce adjustment directive.

Understanding the points that are made by the hon. member, matters are under discussion at the present time and will subsequently be reported as the negotiations are completed.

[Chuck Strahl, Reform, Fraser Valley East, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my supplementary question is for the President of the Treasury Board.

The Auditor General's report says that the purpose of the workforce adjustment directive, which is preserving jobs, stands directly contrary to the government's purpose of reducing the size of the public service. If the minister is not able to renegotiate the terms of the workforce directive with the unions, is he prepared to bring in legislation to change that directive?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for Infrastructure]

Mr. Speaker, we have made it quite clear in the government that we would negotiate with the bargaining agents. It is a matter that is subject to collective bargaining as it is part of the agreements with our unions and we will negotiate with them.

There is no doubt that there is going to be an impact from the program review in terms of the public service employment levels. Those are matters that we will negotiate with the unions and subsequently when they have been dealt with we will report them to Parliament.

Canadian National

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Beauport—Montmorency—Orléans, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday, the Minister of Transport attempted to trivialize the generous interest-free loan of $300,000 granted to Mr. Paul Tellier by Canadian National toward the purchase of a home in Westmount. The minister tried to explain this loan by saying it was in line with so-called similar practices in the private sector.

At a time when the CN is cutting 10,000 positions as part of its rationalization plan and the government is asking all its employees to make sacrifices, what is the Minister of Transport waiting for, as sole shareholder, to step in and put a stop to this outrageous privilege enjoyed by Mr. Tellier, one of the people most highly paid by the Canadian taxpayers?

[Douglas Young, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday, I indicated in my answer that the practice with regard to the president of CN was one for which there were precedents at CN with previous presidents. I also explained that this was a situation that was commonplace in the private sector, given that CN is a Crown corporation.

Certainly, we are all aware of the upcoming changes at CN and elsewhere in the Canadian railway system. The salary of the president of CN was set by order in council before this government came to power. There is no doubt that the situation identified by the hon. member is of great concern to us. I can assure this House that, if it were up to us to decide, no such things would ever happen again in the future.