Debates of Dec. 2nd, 1994

Awards For Bravery

[Jack Iyerak Anawak, Liberal, Nunatsiaq, NT]

[Editor's Note: Member spoke in Inuktitut.]

I would like to take a few moments today to recognize some very courageous people in my constituency. Earlier this month they were honoured with the NWT Commissioner's award for bravery.

Moses Aliyak of Rankin Inlet received the award for bravery at the highest level for rescuing his wife and nephew from a polar bear attack.

Three Cambridge Bay residents, Peter Evalik, Richard Evalik and Grant Corey, also received the award at the highest level. They saved the lives of two women in a burning house by crawling through heavy smoke to find them and get them to safety.

Dennis Klengenberg and Kevin Niptanatiak of Coppermine received letters of commendation for rescuing each other after their snow machine broke through the ice near the mouth of the Coppermine River.

With great pride and admiration I salute these heroes of the north.

Blood System

[Maud Debien, Bloc, Laval East, QC]

Mr. Speaker, some important aspects contained in the report of the panel of experts

on the safety of the blood system in Canada were revealed yesterday after being leaked to the press.

Several complaints and fears expressed by a number of groups were confirmed in the report. The experts noted a manifest lack of consistency in the work done by Health Canada's Bureau of Biologics, which is responsible for controlling the quality of blood products and facilities at the seventeen transfusion centres of the Canadian Red Cross.

This proves how reluctant the Minister of Health is to take the present situation seriously. The minister prefers to let the provinces take the blame for this mess and, instead of doing what she is supposed to do, has tolerated these lax procedures at the Bureau of Biologics. It is high time the minister acted responsibly and tightened up the standards and their application.

[English]

Justice

[Chuck Strahl, Reform, Fraser Valley East, BC]

Mr. Speaker, in July of this year an RCMP officer in my constituency caught Ian David Martin crossing into Canada illegally.

This 200-pound man lunged at the officer, knocking her down and wrestling away her service revolver. Just before he could shoot the officer a private citizen by the name of Klaus Soth stopped his car and intervened. Though threatened with death he bravely continued to reason with the assailant until they could both escape. Subsequently the criminal torched the police car, causing $41,000 worth of damage.

For these grievous crimes he received a slap on the wrist of 15 months. He may be paroled by Christmas. Mr. Martin also had a smuggled .357 magnum revolver on his person.

If the government would have followed Reform's prescription a year ago and put in place automatic sentences for the commission of crimes while using a gun, this dangerous man could have been put away for years instead of months.

Our current system mocks justice and declares open season on police officers by allowing criminals to act with virtual impugnity.

Social Security Programs

[George Proud, Liberal, Hillsborough, PE]

Mr. Speaker, the government has launched the first ever comprehensive review of social security programs.

To say the least, this has been long overdue. Canadians realize that the social safety net no longer meets the needs of those in need. Not enough emphasis is placed on ending the cycle of dependence on poverty.

This is particularly true in Atlantic Canada. That region desperately needs better access to higher education and training programs to help people get jobs that last.

Atlantic Canada has a seasonal economy. Agriculture, tourism and fishing are our largest industries and will remain so for a long time. In redesigning the unemployment insurance program and other social programs, I urge the minister to remember the seasonal foundation of our economy.

I am confident this government will design a package that will help us move beyond a seasonal economy and that seasonal workers will not be left behind.

Justice

[Mac Harb, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, on November 16, 1992 I had the honour of introducing in the House two very important bills. Bill C-365 considered crossbows dangerous weapons and recommended that they be prohibited. Bill C-366 sought to prohibit the sale and use of replica guns that might be mistaken as a real weapon and used in crime.

These bills came about as the result of major crimes in our community. On behalf of the victims of these crimes, in particular Patricia Allen's family and friends, I want to congratulate the Minister of Justice in committing this government to taking action on the banning of these two items.

The people in my community are solidly behind the minister's bold, progressive and dynamic approach to addressing the issues of crime and community safety.

I would also like to take a moment to thank my former staff member, Mike Bonser, who worked very hard on these two bills, and my current staff for their continued support and hard work. As members know, an MP without staff is like a bird without wings. I thank all MPs' staff for making our job a lot easier.

Social Programs Review

[Marlene Cowling, Liberal, Dauphin—Swan River, MB]

Mr. Speaker, in October the Minister of Human Resources Development released a discussion paper entitled: "Improving Social Security in Canada". This document outlined the government's options for improving Canada's social programs.

To ensure that the people of my Dauphin-Swan River riding had input into the changes being made, I sponsored four public forums as part of the public consultation process. I am pleased to report that the forums were a complete success.

The participants represented a cross-section of the riding. The discussions were thoughtful and constructive. A variety of very good ideas were brought to the table. Today I will be providing the minister and the standing committee with the report that summarizes these very valuable ideas.

I strongly recommend to all members of this House who have not yet met with their constituents about this important issue to do so.

The Deficit

[Ray Speaker, Reform, Lethbridge]

Mr. Speaker, many Canadians are demanding that the government increase its efforts to reduce the deficit. We must cut the deficit now while the economy is still expanding. The government does not appear to be listening, but maybe it will listen to the latest news.

The International Monetary Fund is also disappointed by the government's deficit reduction targets. A confidential IMF report said that it would be appropriate to plan on the basis of a more ambitious medium term target in the 1995-96 budget, with a view to accelerating fiscal consolidation the next few years.

Along with the IMF, market watchers are becoming uneasy with the federal government's 3 per cent target. Last month witnessed the largest sell off of foreign held Canadian securities since the eve of the Charlottetown accord.

When will this government get the message that 3 per cent is not enough? The debt clock today is $540,471,337,554.19.

National Road Safety Week

[Don Boudria, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to remind all Canadians that this week is National Road Safety Week. It is important that all motorists in this country realize the importance of safe driving.

Last Monday, I had the misfortune to be involved in a traffic accident. I emerged with a broken nose, a few bruises and a good scare. The woman driving the second vehicle was also slightly injured.

I can tell you that the fact that I was wearing a seat belt probably saved my life. There are far too many deaths in Canada. A number of lives could be saved simply by the use of seatbelts.

It is my keen hope that this message will be heard by the public and that National Road Safety Week will be a reminder to motorists that safety on the roads is in their hands. I repeat my message: we must all be on our guard when driving.

Gun Control

[Keith Martin, Reform, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Justice has indicated his desire to enact stringent gun control measures that will primarily affect law-abiding citizens and will do little to address the criminal use of guns.

I fully support several measures which call for increased penalties for the trafficking of illegal weapons and certainty of sentencing for weapons offences. However, I caution the Minister of Justice to bear in mind that of all homicides committed between 1961 and 1990, less than 1 per cent were committed with legally owned handguns. As a result the registration of all firearms will be of little value in attempting to reduce crime and it will be the law-abiding citizens who will bear the brunt of this legislation.

The reality is we have a serious crime problem, not a serious gun problem. The principle of the protection of life and property of every Canadian citizen must be the number one priority when considering all legislation pertaining to our criminal justice system. I trust the Minister of Justice will bear this in mind.

Violence Against Women

[Beryl Gaffney, Liberal, Nepean, ON]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday in the House the member for London West was asking a very serious question of the Minister of Justice about violence against women and I quote: "Most of the violence women experience is in their homes and at the hands of men they know. What measures is the minister taking to protect women from violence?"

A male member from the Reform Party clearly shouted out: "Give them .32s," a shameful display of disrespect-

[The Speaker]

My colleagues, this matter was dealt with yesterday on a point of order. At that time I heard both sides. I would say that this statement is coming back on a point of order that I declared closed. This statement is out of order.

Leader Of The Official Opposition

[Madeleine Dalphond-Guiral, Bloc, Laval Centre, QC]

Mr. Speaker, Lucien Bouchard, our leader and our friend, is right now engaged in a human drama, the intensity of which we can scarcely imagine. We are powerless before this tragic event and must rely completely on medicine and on providence.

But we want him to know that we are all with him in spirit, that our thoughts and our energies accompany him. All the members of this House, and the members of the Bloc Quebecois in particular, wish to express their support to his family, especially his mother, his wife Audrey and his two children, Alexandre and Simon. Lucien Bouchard is a man who has devoted all his energy and all his talent to the cause of the people of Quebec and today, in his personal struggle, the people of Quebec are behind him.

Mil Davie Shipyard

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the acting Prime Minister.

The board of directors of Hibernia has really thumbed its nose at the Prime Minister-a move with very serious political consequences-by refusing his request to review its decision to award a contract without tender to Saint John Shipbuilding. In doing so, the Hibernia board is maintaining its original decision which violates all the rules for awarding contracts.

Does the acting Prime Minister maintain the position of the Prime Minister, who said that the contract should not have been awarded directly to Saint John Shipbuilding?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons and Solicitor General of Canada]

First of all, Mr. Speaker, before answering the hon. member's question, let me say that our thoughts and prayers go out to the Leader of the Opposition and his family. We pray that he will recover and regain his health. I think that I speak not only for my colleagues but for all Canadians.

I was in agreement with what the Prime Minister said when he made the remarks quoted by the hon. member. I continue to be in agreement with those remarks.

However, after the announcement of the consortium yesterday that they had acceded to the request of the government to review their decision but after doing so had decided to maintain their original decision, we sought legal advice. I say with some regret that the advice was that the government does not have the legal means to do anything to change that decision.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, while everyone, including the Minister of Natural Resources and the Prime Minister, admits that MIL Davie was wronged by this appalling decision and that the Hibernia consortium is making a mockery of the established rules, does the government now intend to intervene directly so that justice and equity prevail?

I recall that there were two bidders. When one of them cannot fulfil the contract, usually the second one is called on. Will the government put sufficient pressure on the board of directors?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons and Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, MIL Davie was not the only one wronged by this decision. I think that all other shipyards that could have bid are in the same position. That is why the government, in light of the report from the Newfoundland-Canada Offshore Petroleum Board, asked for a review of the initial decision.

I am sorry to say that based on the legal opinions we have received we cannot insist that the call for tenders be reissued. I must add that a general review of all the economic spinoffs in this area is already in place. The government will take this situation into consideration to see what changes must be made in future to avoid a recurrence.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, let us recall the facts. The Canada-Newfoundland board said that only MIL Davie was wronged. First, no other shipyards were mentioned. Second, all the shipyards could bid. When Hibernia called for tenders, only two shipyards bid, Marystown and MIL Davie. Normally, the second one is called on if the first is not up to scratch.

Remember that before he left for Paris, the Prime Minister clearly instructed Hibernia to review its initial decision, which he termed unfortunate. How does the acting Prime Minister explain that, although his government guarantees 50 per cent of the Hibernia project and is investing more than $3 billion in it, it cannot make the Hibernia consortium respect its decisions and those of the Prime Minister?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons and Solicitor General of Canada]

First of all, Mr. Speaker, I said that not only MIL Davie but also the other shipyards were wronged by the decisions in question because all the other shipyards did not have a chance to bid on the work which was taken away from Marystown.

Second, my answer was given in light of the fact that the previous Conservative government had passed a bill on the Atlantic Accord which does not give the present government the power to have the contract in question reopened. I am sorry but that is why the government is reviewing the whole program of economic benefits to be certain that the situation will not recur.

[Michel Bellehumeur, Bloc, Berthier—Montcalm, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I wish to remind the Acting Prime Minister that the Bloc Quebecois was the only party to vote against the Hibernia legislation; the current government voted in favour.

The Hibernia consortium, heavily subsidized with billions of dollars from taxpayers in Canada and Quebec, was denounced last week by the Canada-Newfoundland Board for violating the terms of the plan for awarding Hibernia contracts. By renewing their decision, probably with the agreement of the representative from Petro-Canada, 70 per cent owned by the federal government, the members of the Hibernia board of directors continue to deny justice to the MIL Davie shipyard.

Is the government aware that by not immediately demanding the cancellation of the contract awarded to Saint John Shipbuilding, it is condoning another decision that discriminates against the MIL Davie shipyard?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons and Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, according to the advice I received, the government does not have the power to have the contract in question reopened but, because it wants to ensure that MIL Davie and all other shipyards are treated equally in this matter, the government has asked the consortium to review its decision. We regret that the consortium has decided to maintain this decision. As I just said, that is why we will undertake a full review of this system of economic benefits and do what we can so that this situation does not happen again.

[Michel Bellehumeur, Bloc, Berthier—Montcalm, QC]

Mr. Speaker, if I understand correctly, the government has no power to act, but it has the power to sink billions of dollars into this project.

Are we to understand that the government's refusal to take immediate action in this matter is intended to doom the MIL Davie shipyard and to satisfy its little Liberal friends in the maritimes?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons and Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, it is unfortunate that in this difficult situation the hon. member can do nothing but try to sow dissension and ill will between various parts of Canada. I think it is shameful that he misuses this serious situation in this way.

This government wants to treat all involved in a fair and equitable fashion: MIL Davie, the shipyards in Atlantic Canada and everyone else concerned, and that is the way we have been acting. We have used the powers we have and unfortunately they do not extend to having the whole thing reopened. However, we are reviewing the whole process to try and make sure that this unfortunate situation does not happen again.

National Defence

[Jack Frazer, Reform, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the report of the special joint committee on Canada's defence policy has been generally well received. There has been virtually unanimous support for the recommendation to constitute a standing joint committee on defence to monitor progress on defence department programs. I have been unable to find any reference to this committee in the white paper.

I ask the defence minister, is this an oversight or has the government decided to exclude Parliament from defence matters?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, we deliberately did not address ourselves to this particular question in the white paper because this is really a matter of negotiation between the leaders of the various parties and in the other place. That is something my colleague, the House leader, will obviously take into consideration. However, that is not within the ambit of defence policy.

[Jack Frazer, Reform, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Mr. Speaker, perhaps this falls into the same category, but I think the minister should address it.

The committee report also recommended that except in extraordinary circumstances Canadian forces commitments for overseas tasking should not be made prior to a debate in Parliament.

Canadians want to know what is involved and want to have more opportunity to express their opinions before our forces are committed overseas. The government has been better than the previous government, but Rwanda and Haiti had in fact been decided before they were brought before Parliament.

Will the government reconsider and commit to incorporating this parliamentary process?