Debates of Dec. 9th, 1994

Immigration And Refugee Board

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member will understand that the inquiry was directed under a section of the citizenship and immigration act which defines the proper ambit of the inquiry.

Under that section a judge appointed for that purpose is directed to inquire only into the allegations with respect to a particular member of the board and is confined to making recommendations with respect to what should happen as a consequence of any findings. That is by statute. The terms of reference for the judge in question were dictated by statute and were provided accordingly.

[Jim Silye, Reform, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the Immigration and Refugee Board has lost its legitimacy and credibility. I ask the minister again, in light of what he just said, given that inquiry is done with, will he now order a new inquiry to continue to get to the bottom of the allegations of impropriety in the IRB? If not, why not?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, the premise of the hon. member's question is completely untrue. The legitimacy and the integrity of the board are not in question in these proceedings.

As to the broader question, this government has confidence in the process. In the final analysis it will be up to the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration to come to his own conclusion about the broader matter which has been raised here today.

Income Tax

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in the finance committee's report, the Liberal majority suggests that the Minister of Finance increase the tax burden on all Canadian taxpayers by levying new taxes, including a temporary surtax which alone could raise at least over a billion dollars for the federal treasury.

Can the Minister of Finance promise in this House to reject any proposal for new taxes or charges that would affect mainly the middle class, including this ridiculous idea of a surtax?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, as I just said, I repeat that I promise to read and consider carefully the suggestions in the majority report. I also intend to read the minority reports from the Bloc Quebecois and the Reform Party.

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, why does the minister not immediately rule out these suggestions for new taxes and why does he not make a solemn commitment to immediately attack the real issues, namely family trusts, tax shelters, the $6 billion in unpaid taxes, waste and duplication? That is what people came to tell the finance committee. They did not come to say to raise taxes, to cut social programs further, to attack the unemployed, the poor, students and seniors. Had he been there, he would have understood right away.

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, the member knows very well that in our last budget, we closed a great many loopholes and I must say that we really began to act in many fields, even on the suggestions which the member just mentioned.

That being said, I read the Bloc's report carefully and perhaps I would like to ask a question myself, Mr. Speaker. I definitely noted that the Bloc picked up Richard Le Hir's suggestion about $3 billion in duplication and overlap. Am I to understand now that Richard Le Hir is the big economic thinker for the separatist movement in Canada?

Gun Control

[Garry Breitkreuz, Reform, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Mr. Speaker, on Wednesday the Minister of Justice dismissed opposition from provincial justice ministers saying: "We govern by what is right". Reformers are getting calls from the police on the street saying that registration will not work.

If the minister will not listen, why is he consulting? Is his only justification for the registration of 10 million to 20 million firearms that he and the Liberal cabinet think it is right? Can he tell Canadians why he is ignoring such convincing and credible opposition to his proposals?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, in the first place the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police has been asking for this measure for the last dozen years.

The other point may explain why the hon. member is receiving complaints. Last night I received a petition from a colleague of the hon. member in his party, a petition signed by people who oppose registration and other features. The petition decried government legislation that would ban rifles and shotguns, impose a $100 per gun registration fee and put limits on the amount of ammunition that will be available for sale. Those have nothing whatever to do with the proposals that we have put before this House. I would sign that petition.

I am here to say that people should be honest with the Canadian people about what these proposals are all about.

[Garry Breitkreuz, Reform, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Mr. Speaker, if this government would come clean and explain exactly what registration is all about and what it would accomplish, we would not have these difficulties.

The chief inspector and registrar of firearms in the state of Victoria in Australia recommended that its firearms registration be abolished after three years of trial in the 1980s because it did not control the criminal misuse and irresponsible use of firearms. If that were clearly communicated we would not have this problem.

Does the minister have measurable objectives and what will he do when his registration system fails to reduce violent crimes? Will he abolish it like Australia did, or will he ban even more guns and place more restrictions on law-abiding, responsible gun owners?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, when Canadians want advice with respect to their health they consult doctors. When we want to know how to reduce the crime rate in this country we speak to the police. The police in Canada, not in Australia, have for a dozen years been asking this government for gun registration. I suggest we take the advice of the experts and put registration in place.

Bosnia

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Verchères, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question was for the Prime Minister, but I will put it to the Deputy Prime Minister.

While the international community continues to drag its feet regarding the measures required to bring Bosnian Serbs to their senses, and now threatens to withdraw its peacekeepers, Canada does not seem to be making a significant contribution to the peace process. Yet, the Minister of National Defence clearly said that it was a shame that Canada was not part of the contact group, adding that he hoped the Prime Minister would raise this issue in Budapest.

Will the Deputy Prime Minister tell us if the Prime Minister raised this issue in Budapest, and will she confirm that Canada is still not part of the contact group?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, during his visit to the CSE conference in Budapest, the Prime Minister had a number of bilateral meetings with leaders from many countries, including those of the contact group.

We have been assured that our views are being fully heard by the members of that particular group and that our input is valued. I think that goes some way to addressing the concerns that I outlined last week.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Verchères, QC]

Mr. Speaker, are we to understand from the minister's answer that Canada is still a powerless actor and is content to be a mere onlooker, at a time when negotiations are deadlocked? Is it not time for the Canadian government to propose concrete solutions to convince the Bosnian Serbs to accept a peace plan?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, events of the last week have shown that the efforts to achieve peace in the former Yugoslavia have broadened beyond any five countries that are now in the contact group. A number of countries are involved. I think the statements made by the Prime Minister publicly and the representations made by the Minister of Foreign Affairs and the Prime Minister privately should assure Canadians that Canada's voice is being heard.

The Environment

[Glen McKinnon, Liberal, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of the Environment.

The Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development has asked that an environmental assessment panel be appointed to conduct a public review in the Lac de Gras area of the Northwest Territories. The proposed review would focus on the environmental and socioeconomic effects associated with the BHP Minerals Canada Ltd. diamond mine.

Would the minister please tell the House when this panel will be appointed?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the question from the member for Brandon-Souris. I wish to inform the House that earlier today I announced the appointment of a four person independent panel to conduct a full public review of the BHP diamond mine proposal.

The panel will start its organizational work immediately. It will make sure that all interested groups, individuals, parties and organizations will be provided with the opportunity to participate. It will ensure that any decisions on the BHP proposal are only made after a full open and fair consultation and consideration of environmental and socioeconomic effects.

Gun Control

[Hugh Hanrahan, Reform, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the Liberals have stood in this House and repeatedly stated that after an intense and lengthy consultation process they have compiled a list of handguns, the primary use of which could only be in the form of criminal activity.

My question is for the Minister of Justice. How is it possible that the Shooting Federation of Canada that facilitates the rules and regulations of this type of firearm to be utilized in shooting competitions like the PanAm games and the Olympics was never consulted by anyone from this Liberal government over the practicality of banning these types of firearms?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, in the first place I met with representatives of that federation on more than one occasion. The most recent meeting was in my office here in Ottawa within the last six weeks.

Second, all of the international legitimate competitions using handguns were considered. The conclusion to which we came was not that the handguns proposed to be banned are primarily used in crime as the hon. member stated. We concluded that the handguns proposed to be banned are not used in legitimate competition. If they have no legitimate use then the logical question is: Why are they in the hands of Canadians?

[Hugh Hanrahan, Reform, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Speaker, when we telephoned the organization in question it said it was never consulted. It also suggested that because this particular gun is used by many people in the Olympics and in the PanAm games this puts the PanAm games in jeopardy because a full length of programs cannot be offered.

Could the minister comment on the validity of those statements?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I would be happy to speak with the hon. member and tell him about the particulars of my meetings with the shooting federation.

The hon. member did not mention a particular handgun in the course of his question, but if he has a specific calibre or model of handgun in mind I would be happy to discuss it.

I can say there is a handgun which is specially registered. A .22-.32 calibre interchangeable barrel is used in international competition. We have already made it clear that firearm will be permissible because it is indeed used in that sort of competition.

Human Rights

[Philippe Paré, Bloc, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Deputy Prime Minister. A few weeks after the Prime Minister's pompous economic mission to Asia, it is important to bring up the sad story of Tran Trieu Quan, a Canadian businessman held prisoner in Hanoi for over eight months without any charges being laid against him. This case could help us better understand the new attitude of a government that considers respect for human rights less important than trade relations.

Are we to understand that if the Prime Minister took such a timid stand for human rights in Asia, it was because of his inability to protect the fundamental rights of this Canadian prisoner in Vietnam?

[Mac Harb, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of International Trade]

Mr. Speaker, first of all, I want to thank the hon. member for raising this very importance issue. I want to assure him that the Canadian government has raised the issue on several occasions, not only with the Vietnamese government, with whom we have had further talks, but also with various organizations such as the United Nations.

I have noted his question and will get back to him as soon as possible, on this specific case.

[Philippe Paré, Bloc, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, seeing that the Canadian government is unable to resolve the Quan case and obtain guarantees for the safety of Canadian businesspeople, how can the Deputy Prime Minister pretend that business executives will accept such risks in their future trade relations with Asia?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, as the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of International Trade explained quite clearly, the Prime Minister himself raised the issue when he was in Vietnam and he is pursuing the matter.

That being said, it should be emphasized, as indeed we did before the Prime Minister's Asian tour, that I have personally reviewed every comment made by the Premier of Quebec when he was the host of the governor of a Chinese province and, each time, he adopted the same policy as the Government of Canada.

He stressed the issue intensely in private, but did not make public statements. The Premier of Quebec never made any public statement on human rights in China.