Debates of Feb. 1st, 1994

Montreal Economy

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

The answer is yes, and I will do it together with the Prime Minister of our country.

The Budget

[Bob Mills, Reform, Red Deer, AB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Finance.

The minister has just completed a series of cross-country meetings to consult with Canadians about the upcoming budget. Could the minister tell the House what proportion of participants favoured increasing federal revenues and what proportion favoured decreasing federal spending?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development -Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, there is no doubt that there is a consensus across the country on the need to decrease government spending, one that we on this side of the House share very much.

What occurred and was very interesting was that in each and every one of the conferences-in the workshops and in the debate about the nature of the deficit, the necessity of preserving our social programs and rebuilding our economy-virtually everybody understood the necessity of augmenting the revenue side of the governor's p and l statement. I cannot think of a better word; I have not been in this job long enough. More so, no one disagreed with the absolute necessity of building more equity into the tax system.

[Bob Mills, Reform, Red Deer, AB]

Mr. Speaker, it seems the idea that a group of people out there want an increase in taxes has been attributed to the hon. minister. Could the minister identify these people and who they supposedly represent?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development -Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, I have a great deal of difficulty understanding the thrust of the member's question.

The fact is that virtually everybody-and I said it in my first answer-wants to see more equity in the tax system. In fact that is an essential part of building a strong economy. There was no one out there who said they did not want to have more equity in the tax system. Everybody understood that building more equity in the tax system meant filling in tax loopholes and taking away exemptions from one segment of society that they enjoy that other people do not. That is the kind of system we are going to build.

Health

[Pauline Picard, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

My question is for the Minister of Health.

The newspaper La Presse reported this morning that the Minister of Finance said that dental and health insurance premiums could be taxed for the first time in order to reduce the number of tax loopholes and to generate additional funds.

My question is as follows: In this International Year of the Family, does the minister agree with this proposal to tax dental and health insurance plans?

[Diane Marleau, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, of course, the Minister of Finance has things to do in the area of taxation, especially because of the debt and the deficit which we face. I care about the health of Canadians and I will do my utmost to defend Canadians' health and welfare.

[Pauline Picard, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my supplementary question is this: Is the minister aware that 9 million taxpayers will have to pay this tax, which could cost each family up to $700 a year?

[Diane Marleau, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, I am surprised. Obviously the member opposite has had more information about the budget than the rest of the people in Canada. I am under the impression we have to wait until the Minister of Finance actually delivers the budget to know what is in it.

Agriculture

[Jake Hoeppner, Reform, Lisgar—Marquette, MB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Agriculture.

The ongoing labour dispute involving west coast longshoremen is costing Canadian grain farmers millions of dollars a day. Contrary to what the minister of human resources claimed yesterday in the House there is no settlement in sight. It is obvious that the plan of dockyard owners is to hold Canadian grain farmers hostage.

Could the minister tell thousands of innocent grain farmers caught in this mess what he intends to do to resolve this major agricultural crisis?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, I say to the hon. member for Lisgar-Marquette that my statement yesterday did not indicate that a settlement was in sight. I said a settlement was possible because the parties were not that far apart.

What is going to be required is a real good sense of public interest in their responsibilities and a recognition that under the collective bargaining process all parties to the dispute have a responsibility not only to themselves but to the entire country.

[Jake Hoeppner, Reform, Lisgar—Marquette, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I wonder if the hon. minister could use his talent in speech in negotiating rather than answering for the agriculture minister.

I have a supplementary question. With all due respect to the minister, the only thing unions and owners agree on is that there will not be a quick voluntary settlement. This lockout is an obvious attempt by the dockyard owners to force federal government intervention.

Could the minister tell the House what is to be gained by waiting for this to happen?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, I say to the hon. member for Lisgar-Marquette that in a time when the difficulties we face in this area are very sensitive it does not help for members of Parliament to be trying to inflame opinion or trying to pit one group against another.

It is very important in statements made in the House that we recognize the two parties to the dispute must be encouraged to come back to the table to exercise their responsibilities under collective bargaining.

In the meantime the government is carefully monitoring the situation. We are prepared to offer mediation services as soon as the two parties make a request. We will certainly keep in mind the public interest of Canadians. Of that the member can be assured.

Cigarette Smuggling

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday, about a week after the first protests against the government's inaction on cigarette smuggling, the RCMP stepped in to put an end to this illegal activity in Montreal's east end.

To appease fed-up Quebecers, could the Solicitor General make a commitment before this House that from now on he will see to it that the RCMP puts as much energy into tracking down the real smugglers' networks as it has into harassing honest, exasperated citizens?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons and Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, it is the RCMP's responsibility to enforce smuggling legislation throughout this country. I am confident that the RCMP is taking its responsibilities seriously and will continue to do so.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister told us he did not have enough leads and evidence. Could he ask his colleagues, in particular the hon. member for Glengarry-Prescott-Russell, who said on television that he knew the type of weapon, the type of boat, where it went on and who was involved, and his colleague from Saint-Henri-Westmount, who stated yesterday, "This illegal activity is carried out by criminal organizations who take advantage of the same channels they use for drugs, arms and alcohol". His colleagues seem to be better informed than the Minister. Would he not want to ask them about their sources?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons and Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I know full well that between November 1993 and January 1994, close to 80,000 cartons of cigarettes, 36,000 litres of alcohol and 150 vehicles were seized by the RCMP in Quebec alone. This shows that the RCMP is taking its responsibilities seriously and will continue to do so.

Atlantic Fishery

[Jean Payne, Liberal, St. John's West, NL]

Mr. Speaker, it is with great concern that I continue to read reports about the ongoing decline of the groundfish stocks in Newfoundland.

We have to take every action possible to protect and rebuild the stocks. We also have to take into account the century old tradition of cod jigging in Newfoundland and subsistence fishing in other areas, including the lower north shore of Quebec for example.

Given this, can the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans tell the House why he is resorting to closing down the recreational and food fisheries in Newfoundland and will he be taking such drastic action elsewhere?

[Brian Tobin, Liberal, Minister of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to congratulate the hon. member for St. John's West on an excellent first question in this place. May I say that my predecessor as minister of fisheries would agree that that is the best question a member for St. John's West has asked in this place in many years.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[Brian Tobin, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

Somewhere John is chuckling.

I want to assure my colleague it is with the greatest of reluctance the Government of Canada has come to the conclusion that it is necessary to stop the food or recreational fishery along the northeast coast and south coast of Newfoundland. The decision was taken only after the latest scientific evidence indicated a drop in spawning biomass since 1989 of almost 99 per cent in some areas and an indication of some black market in cod.

We have taken the decision. I think it is understood and supported by the vast majority of the people of Newfoundland and Labrador. We are going to look at the area zone 4RS which affects the west coast of Newfoundland and the north shore of Quebec. The scientific survey vessel came back to port this past weekend. The analysis will be available in another four or five days. I will take a look at the analysis.

If similar action is warranted, I will take it. If similar action is not warranted, we will continue with the recreation and food fishery in those areas.

Voter's Recall

[Ed Harper, Reform, Simcoe Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister.

Without the power of recall, voters will not have an opportunity to replace an MP who has lost their confidence. This situation is clearly unacceptable and intolerable to Canadian voters who have a right to proper representation.

My question for the Prime Minister is this. If the voters in a riding submit a petition that demands the removal of an MP and the calling of a by-election, and if the number of voters signing that petition is greater than 50 per cent of the number of people who voted in the last federal election, will the government respect the wishes of the petitioners and enact a recall process?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I spoke about this problem on Friday. It was tried in Alberta in 1936. There was a request by the people who elected the premier at the time, Mr. Aberhart, that he be recalled. He passed legislation abrogating the legislation retroactively.

This is puzzling me a little bit, so I hope he will consult with his leader because his father was involved at that time. We should study the situation of 1936 and after that we can consider what should be done.

[Ed Harper, Reform, Simcoe Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, a supplementary question. Yesterday the Prime Minister said that democracy demands that members be allowed to fill out their term.

Is the Prime Minister suggesting that democracy is served when MPs who betray the trust of voters are rewarded with a four-year no-cut contract and that democracy is endangered when the voters have the opportunity to remove such an MP and force a by-election.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, we have been elected under the law of the land and the law of the land states that we were elected for the full term.

Of course often after an election some citizens are not too happy with the way they voted. I am sure that in the riding of the hon. gentleman there are more than 100 persons today who regret they voted for the Reform Party and if they had a chance they would need, in his case, only 110 people to sign a petition that would void the majority he had in the election.