Debates of Feb. 1st, 1994

Quebec City Airport

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Beauport—Montmorency—Orléans, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Transport. Last Friday, the minister answered a question asked by the hon. member for Louis-Hébert concerning the criteria which led to the closure of the radar control facility at the Quebec City airport. The Minister of Transport said that the review process was being applied to the country's entire air traffic control system. He said, and I quote: "I can assure my hon. colleague that the

same criteria will be applied, whether it be in Quebec City, Calgary, Moncton or Vancouver."

Was proximity the determining factor in the decision to transfer the radar control facility from Quebec City to Montreal, since it is located 120 air miles from the control centre in Montreal?

[Douglas Young, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, what I said last week in the House was that the criteria which will be established to make decisions regarding the Quebec City airport are similar to those which will apply elsewhere. I can assure the hon. member that the basic criteria relate to safety and the provision of services in one's preferred official language. This is what we intend to look for when we review this case and any other one.

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Beauport—Montmorency—Orléans, QC]

Mr. Speaker, why then does the Minister of Transport not apply the same reasoning to the Ottawa airport, which is located less than 90 air miles from the Montreal airport? Is it because people do not want to come and work in a French environment in Montreal? Is that the real answer?

[Douglas Young, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, in his first question, the hon. member asked if this was the primary criteria. I can tell him that it was not. What I said to the hon. member is that we want to ensure that people can get those services in both official languages, and we also want to ensure everyone's safety. I sincerely regret that the hon. member does not seem to believe that the service provided in Montreal can be as good as the one in Quebec City.

Kemano River Project

[John Cummins, Reform, Delta, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans.

Last Thursday the minister informed the House that the federal government would participate in the B.C. Utilities Commission hearings on the Kemano River diversion project.

Many suspect the project will have a negative impact on the environment and on fish stocks yet the minister said he cannot halt or delay the contentious project because he inherited a 1987 agreement signed by his predecessor.

Given that the government was able to cancel the EH-101 helicopter contract and the Pearson airport contract, will the minister fulfil his responsibilities and cancel the 1987 agreement if fish stocks on the Fraser River are threatened?

[Brian Tobin, Liberal, Minister of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the hon. member for his question. I know he has a genuine interest in matters regarding fish habitat.

The member asks why is this not like the EH-101 and Pearson. The EH-101 was a $5.8 billion project that was not yet under way. The Pearson proposal was a $750 million airport expansion that was not yet under way. The Kemano project is a $1.5 billion project in current dollars and those dollars have already been spent.

Given the Reform Party's well-known and often expressed interest in the deficit, I think the member would want me to acknowledge that the terms of the 1987 settlement agreement are such that the Government of Canada, the Government of British Columbia together with Alcan entered into an agreement where any move to slow or stop the project could potentially see the two governments liable for that delay or stoppage.

I am saying to the hon. member what I am sure he would expect. The government's intention is to allow all evidence by all officials to be put forward before a B.C. review panel, to allow the panel to speak for itself and to not pre-judge the results.

[John Cummins, Reform, Delta, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the project is not without cost if it goes through. If this project is as environmentally benign as Alcan would have us believe, surely it would not mind guaranteeing the west coast fishing industry compensation if its predictions do not come true and fish stocks on the Fraser River decline as a direct result of the Nechako diversion.

Is the minister prepared to demand that Alcan provide compensation to commercial and sport fishermen in British Columbia if wild salmon stocks on the Fraser River decline in number as a direct result of this project?

[Brian Tobin, Liberal, Minister of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Speaker, the member in his first question said: "Will the minister agree to stop if-". In his second question the member said: "Will the minister and government agree to compensation if-".

The previous government negotiated an agreement behind closed doors and then locked the doors. This government has opened the doors, opened the process and made officials and tens of thousands of pages of documents available to an open review process. We are not going to pre-judge the process. We are not going to say hypothetically what we would do if we are going to allow the facts to speak for themselves in an open process as committed by the Prime Minister during the course of the last election campaign.

Tobacco Smuggling

[Don Boudria, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of National Revenue.

Last week the Ontario Minister of Finance said that tobacco smuggling was a regional problem in Quebec only. I want to ask the Minister of National Revenue what he intends to do to educate his provincial counterpart, to make him aware that one-third of all cigarettes in Ontario are illegal and that it is a national problem, not just a regional one?

[David Anderson, Liberal, Minister of National Revenue]

Mr. Speaker, the member's statement regarding the facts of tobacco smuggling and the consumption of smuggled cigarettes in Ontario are essentially correct as far as I can tell.

How would I educate the Ontario minister? I do not know. It is hard with NDP members in that government. We attempted to put the material in front of them which demonstrates that this is a national problem. Quebec may have more of a problem than the province of Ontario, but if anyone in Ontario is of the view that this is a minor problem and strictly one in Quebec, let me say that they are quite wrong. There is a very substantial smuggling problem in Ontario and a very substantial consumption of contraband cigarettes in Ontario particularly by young people.

We must pay attention to these facts as we attempt to develop a strategy for dealing with what is essentially a national problem and not a Quebec problem.

Telecommunications

[Michel Bellehumeur, Bloc, Berthier—Montcalm, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Minister of National Defence.

Yesterday, it was reported that since 1989, the Communications Security Establishment had awarded three contracts worth $1.1 million for developing devices capable of intercepting conversations originating from telephones and fax machines.

Could the minister tell us whether the government is still funding the development and production of this so-called top secret equipment and whether the federal government intends to use these devices to monitor the private lives of Canadians and Quebecers?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the communications security establishment has been discussed in the House before. The particular contract in question, which came to light last week, is a normal contract. It is for about $1 million. There is nothing nefarious about it.

The Department of National Defence is responsible for a foreign intelligence function. It helps Canadians protect themselves against drug smugglers, terrorists and others who want to infringe on the rights of Canadians.

I can assure the hon. member that this relatively small contract would in no way be used to do anything against Canadians. The communications security establishment does operate within the full ambit of the law and is fully accountable to the House of Commons.

[Michel Bellehumeur, Bloc, Berthier—Montcalm, QC]

Mr. Speaker, when he was in the opposition, the Liberal member for Scarborough-Rouge River, then chairman of the Committee on National Security, stated that the CSE was obviously overstepping its authority and might invade the privacy of Canadians with these devices.

My question is this: Does the minister agree with his colleague that the Communications Security Establishment is overstepping its authority and does he intend to investigate this matter?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I should emphasize that the work of the communications security establishment does not impinge on the rights of Canadians. It is a foreign intelligence gathering mechanism.

[The Speaker]

I would point out that although I permitted the question, usually we do not refer to statements made in committees. I know hon. members will want to review that as they pose their questions in future.

Indian Affairs

[John Duncan, Reform, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister. As a lawyer and a former Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development can you provide the House today with a legal definition of inherent right to self-government as it relates to federal authority?

[The Speaker]

It is just a small point but I know the hon. member will want to pose his question through the Chair. Perhaps we could find another venue for any questions that have to do with legality rather than ask for a legal opinion here in the House. If the hon. member could rephrase his question he might get the information he is seeking.

[John Duncan, Reform, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I have a question I would like to ask the Prime Minister. Can the Prime Minister provide us with his definition of inherent right to self-government as it applies to federal authority?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, we have a Minister of Justice to give legal opinions.

The meaning of inherent right to self-government has been debated in Canada for some time. The Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development is discussing how it can be implemented with the aboriginal peoples at this time. If they come to an agreement we will have a clear definition.

Public Works

[Jean-Robert Gauthier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Public Works. Recent media reports stated the government is planning to pull several thousand public servants out of downtown Ottawa and move them to outlying regions.

The timing could not be worse given the devastating toll of the recession. The downtown service sector is currently suffering from serious fiscal restraint. A job exodus, including the spin-off effect on service jobs, would create a virtual ghost town of our national capital. An abandoned downtown would also be damaging to the tourism industry. Canadians would find it kind of dull to visit Ottawa.

I want to ask the Minister of Public Works if he can confirm whether his department or any other department is presently proceeding with a study to relocate public servants from downtown Ottawa to the suburban areas.

[David Dingwall, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services and Minister for the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for his question. It is a subject matter of great concern to him as well as my colleague, the hon. member for Ottawa Centre, who has raised it with me on several occasions.

I should indicate to the hon. member that my department is charged with the responsibility of developing the accommodation needs of the various departments of the Government of Canada. As a result of the restructuring a new balance must be redrawn.

However I wish to assure the hon. member that no decisions have been reached. It is preliminary evaluation of the existing available space. No decisions will be made until such time as there are wide consultations with hon. members, the Minister of Industry and the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

Tobacco Products

[Audrey McLaughlin, NDP, Yukon, YT]

Mr. Speaker, I know that the Liberal Party will want to clap just as hard after I have asked my question.

My question is for the Minister of Health. The minister responded earlier to a question by saying that she had the health of Canadians at heart, and I believe her.

Given that tobacco use costs Canadians and the health care system directly and indirectly over $15 billion a year and costs the lives of some 37,000 Canadians, will the Minister of Health state in the House today, directly to Canadians, whether she is against lowering the taxes on tobacco products or whether she is for it?

If she is for lowering taxes, will she indicate how her government will compensate provincial governments whose health care costs will clearly rise?

[Diane Marleau, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, in response to the hon. member, I am very concerned about the use of tobacco in the country. I am also very concerned about the high level of tobacco use among young people. That of course is an issue that is raised with the problems of counterfeit and contraband cigarettes going across the nation.

It is a problem we have to face and we have to deal with, always remembering that the health of Canadians is the most important issue in this docket. We have to convince Canadians to stop smoking. We have to convince young people to stop smoking. We have to make sure that tobacco products are not available to the young people of Canada.

Presence In Gallery

[The Speaker]

I draw to the attention of hon. members the presence in the gallery of the Hon. Jeannie Marie-Jewell, Speaker of the Legislative Assembly of the Northwest Territories.