Debates of March 11th, 1994

National Transportation Agency

[Jim Jordan, Liberal, Leeds—Grenville, ON]

Mr. Speaker, recently the National Transportation Agency of Canada announced new regulations requiring that rail, marine and air carriers train their employees and contractors to provide suitable transportation services to persons with disabilities.

In addition, as of January 1 of this year air carriers operating domestic services with aircraft of 30 passenger seats or more are required to provide certain services if requested in advance.

I mention these improvements as the former associate critic for the disabled in the last Parliament. Physically handicapped people often have trouble finding employment and coping with situations which most of us take for granted. It is encouraging to see some of the shortcomings in our society pertaining to the handicapped being addressed.

It has been a long, difficult struggle for those affected by physical disabilities and those speaking for them. I congratulate those responsible for these new regulations.

Canada's Un Troops

[Philippe Paré, Bloc, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Bloc Quebecois, which participated actively in the debate in this House on the future of our peacekeeping operations and of our commitment in the former Yugoslavia, is pleased today to offer its sincerest congratulations to all of Canada's UN troops who are doing an outstanding job over there.

The government decided yesterday to extend the presence of our troops there for six more months. They can thus pursue their important task of helping humanitarian aid get through.

We are thinking especially of those who have just completed a quite remarkable mission in Srebrenica, most of whom are Quebecers. Like all the rest, they have contributed to our solid reputation as peacekeepers in UN missions.

Our UN troops are doing their difficult job overseas with courage and dignity and we are proud of them.

Canadian Athletes

[Jack Ramsay, Reform, Crowfoot, AB]

Mr. Speaker, as a Canadian citizen I was extremely proud of the effort and showing of our athletes in Lillehammer during the Winter Olympics.

Young Canadians from coast to coast demonstrated to the world the talent and sportsmanlike conduct developed in a country that prides itself on being one of the best places in the world to live.

Whether in victory or defeat each of our athletes set an example of excellence for the next generation of athletes to follow that can only be achieved through years of hard work and dedication to become the best they can be.

I commend our gold, silver and bronze medalists. I commend all our athletes with whom we share a strong sense of achievement and patriotism.

I commend Mr. Glen Rupertus of Camrose, Alberta. This small town boy from western Canada accomplished what so many young people only dream of. He made his aspirations come true, he made it to the Olympics.

The memory of his journey, the friendships he found and the honour bestowed on him by all Canadians who witnessed his performance in the biathlon will last a lifetime.

Travel By Members Of Parliament

[Carolyn Parrish, Liberal, Mississauga West, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I stand in the House today to describe a cost saving procedure in which most colleagues can share.

We all travel repeatedly from our ridings to Ottawa. Using a personal example, a regular economy flight from Mississauga to Ottawa is $443.47 return. That same flight when booked from Ottawa to Mississauga with our normal weekend stay over, which includes a Saturday, is $244.26, a difference of $199.21.

The savings per year are well over $10,000 per MP on one of the least expensive routes. For 295 MPs there would be a minimum savings of $3 million per year, a possible savings of $6 million per year.

Many of us book our travel through one agency here in Ottawa with that agency receiving a commission. With the enormous amount of travel booked by the House with MPs spending most weekends in their ridings I am severely disappointed that both airlines have not instructed our travel agent on this considerable saving.

I am also amazed that our travel agent has not instructed our staffs on the savings to Canadian taxpayers.

Violence Against Women

[Beryl Gaffney, Liberal, Nepean, ON]

Mr. Speaker, Canada's 1993 initiative at the United Nations Commission on Human Rights in Geneva led to the adoption of a declaration on the elimination of violence against women.

Canada has done it again in 1994, as the United Nations General Assembly approved the Canadian initiated resolution to appoint a special rapporteur on violence against women.

The rapporteur will report annually to the Commission on Human Rights with recommendations on how to eliminate violence against women, both at the domestic and international levels.

The appointment of this special rapporteur is indicative of Canada's strong commitment to the promotion of the rights of women, both here at home and at the international level.

Fight Against Poverty

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, a genuine movement is taking shape in Quebec, led by prominent citizens

including academics, bishops, union leaders and business people, to take up the fight against poverty, which is affecting an increasingly larger segment of society.

Instead of proposing measures to eliminate poverty, the latest federal budget merely aggravates the problem by shifting many people who would normally have access to unemployment insurance on the welfare rolls.

Will the Prime Minister admit that Canada is getting poorer and poorer and that an increasingly large proportion of the population is suffering as a result? And could he explain what he, as the Prime Minister of Canada, intends to do to give new hope to four million people who are living below the poverty line?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the government realizes it is very important to create jobs in order to restore the dignity of Canadians.

Clearly, the current system has not managed to eliminate poverty. We want to eliminate it by trying new policies, a new approach that will create jobs and restore the dignity of Canadians. A committee of the House of Commons is examining these issues at the moment. The Minister of Human Resources Development is working on a plan to take all our social programs and focus them on job creation. As soon as people have jobs, their dignity is restored and they can get out of the poverty cycle.

That is the approach the government has decided to take, and we will keep on trying until we succeed. I hope we can count on the co-operation of the opposition parties for this new approach, because unemployment insurance and welfare are not the answer. The answer is dignity through work.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, does the Prime Minister realize that according to a very thorough study by the Conseil scolaire de l'île de Montréal, Quebec has the largest number of low income families of any province in Canada, in other words, 31.8 per cent of all poor families in this country, and that cutting and restructuring social programs to save money is not going to restore people's dignity and provide jobs? What does the Prime Minister of Canada intend to do to change a situation that has become very bad for families in Quebec?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I just answered the question. We have embarked on a fundamental reform of our approach to employment and social security, and that is the mandate I gave the Minister of Human Resources Development. The committee that is considering these issues is to report to the House very shortly.

We hope to table legislation before Parliament by next fall and next spring. I would urge opposition members to take part in this process. The sooner we finish, the sooner we will have reforms that will change things, because we are not satisfied with the status quo.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister's answer will not satisfy families that are below the poverty line in this country. The Prime Minister is probably aware that in Canada, one child out of five is living below the poverty line.

Would he agree that considering ways to cut social programs in Canada does not constitute a comprehensive strategy to fight poverty? Would he agree that his responsibility should be to put in place a comprehensive plan with specific strategies to give new hope to people who are poor?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I invite the member of the opposition to participate in the work the Minister of Human Resources Development is doing at this time. There is a committee meeting on that right now. He has met with his provincial colleagues.

Everybody agrees that the status quo proposed by the Bloc Quebecois is not what is needed. We need a new approach where there will be dignity through work, not through welfare and unemployment insurance payments.

We want all parties of this House to make sure that the resources of the Canadian taxpayers are used for creating jobs and giving dignity back to the workers, not having them sit home waiting for welfare and unemployment insurance benefits.

Old Age Security

[Gaston Péloquin, Bloc, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Human Resources Development.

After the Minister of Human Resources Development made his controversial statement calling for Canadians to choose between old age pensions and youth training programs, the Prime Minister intervened to allay the fears raised by this statement. The Prime Minister said that the government had no intention of touching old age pensions.

Now that the Prime Minister has contradicted him, can the Minister of Human Resources Development confirm that the white paper he will table in June will not propose any changes to the old age security program?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, first of all, the hon. member's question is inaccurate. I never said there had to be a choice between seniors and young people. It is not what I said, it is what the hon. members opposite said.

I said that we had to find ways to create jobs for all Canadians and that we will have to review benefit programs and develop a system for investing these funds, which could be used for development and job creation. It is an issue to be examined by all Canadians. It is not a question of pitting seniors against young people but of co-operating for the benefit of all of Canada.

[Gaston Péloquin, Bloc, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Mr. Speaker, is the minister willing to apologize to seniors he upset with his controversial statement, forcing the Prime Minister to contradict him?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, the only people who caused a problem and concern among seniors were the members opposite who raised false fears. They were responsible for that. They were aided by some of their journalist friends who did not look at what the question was doing. If there is to be an apology it should be from those who are out to create false fears and false suspicions.

This government is trying to take an honest look at some of the tough realities facing this country, particularly the problems down the road for our social security system which the Liberals built.

We are responsible for putting in place over the years an effective social security system for older persons. We want to make sure that is maintained and preserved. To do that we must find ways of financing it. We must find a way of ensuring that the large change in the seniors population which will almost double in the next two decades can be accommodated.

Those are honest, realistic questions. It is not helped by members opposite trying to raise false fears which they have been doing and creating a crisis only in their own minds.

Aboriginal Affairs

[Preston Manning, Reform, Calgary Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs.

Several days ago the minister of Indian affairs announced that the government was formally proceeding to establish a new order of aboriginal self-government starting in Manitoba. The government has yet to provide this House with a clear definition of this new order of government.

Recognizing the minister's long experience in the field of intergovernmental relations, how is the federal government defining aboriginal self-government in the case of Manitoba's aboriginals? What will be the relationship of that new order of government to the Government of Canada?

[Marcel Massé, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada]

Mr. Speaker, these extremely important questions require complex answers. It would be better if the questions could be deferred until the minister of Indian affairs can be here to answer them.

[Preston Manning, Reform, Calgary Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, if the government committed itself to establishing a new order of government in Manitoba surely this question must have been discussed at cabinet. Surely no cabinet minister would have committed to this concept without having a clear definition in law and legislation of what this concept is.

We got nowhere asking this question of the minister of Indian affairs. I thought perhaps we would with the intergovernmental affairs minister. Perhaps I can direct this question to whoever on the other side understands what the meaning of aboriginal self-government is with respect to Manitoba. Could we be given that definition?

[Marcel Massé, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada]

Mr. Speaker, the concept of self-government in Indian affairs is one which was used in the red book. It is not a concept that is fully defined. The concept will have to be defined as it is put into place over time. There is no doubt that federal-provincial co-operation will be necessary. As this slowly develops we will give all the details to hon. members.

[Preston Manning, Reform, Calgary Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I am sure all ministers will agree that in a democratic country no new order of government should be established without the consent of the governed.

Will the federal government be conducting a formal referendum among the aboriginal people of Manitoba to secure their approval of this new order of government?

[Marcel Massé, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada]

Mr. Speaker, it is quite important that the concept be discussed among the aboriginal people and discussed by the various stakeholders in the country, including federal and provincial governments and the aboriginal people.

We cannot of course define the content of the concept until it has been negotiated with the various parties. This is what we will do over the next few years, I hope with the co-operation of the opposition parties.

Collège Militaire Royal De Saint-Jean

[Gaston Leroux, Bloc, Richmond—Wolfe, QC]

Mr. Speaker, while the people of Saint-Jean mobilize every day to express their concern about the closing of the Royal Military College in Saint-Jean, the only French language institution of its kind in the country, the minister stubbornly persists in his decision to close it.

Can the minister of defence confirm to us that his government has reached an agreement with the Government of Quebec and that the announcement of this agreement has been deliberately delayed until the closing speech of the Quebec Liberal Party convention on Sunday afternoon?

[English]

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I do not know where the hon. members across the way get their wild ideas from. They are making up the most outrageous assertions and the answer is absolutely no.

[Gaston Leroux, Bloc, Richmond—Wolfe, QC]

Mr. Speaker, does the minister realize that for some savings which he himself is unable to demonstrate, the Liberal Government of Canada is killing the only French language military training institution in America and sending a very negative message about the place of francophones in the armed forces and their future there? Does he realize that?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, this question has been repeatedly asked in another forum over the last few weeks. Responses have been given by the Prime Minister and me.

I said on a couple of occasions this week that with respect to the financial details surrounding the closure of Collège Militaire Royal de Saint-Jean, we will discuss it at the committee, which is the appropriate place, on Tuesday morning when all the estimates are there.