Debates of March 16th, 1994

Government Contracts

[David Dingwall, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services and Minister for the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for raising the matter on the floor of the House of Commons, the details of which I am not overly familiar with.

However the broad based principle which the government has been following and will continue to follow in the weeks and months ahead as it relates to advertising for government programs is based on competency and on the track record of the various companies involved.

I am sure the hon. member would want me to say that there is a necessity for the Government of Canada to advertise government programs so that Canadians from coast to coast will become aware of the benefits of particular programs and can take advantage of particular programs.

Court Of Queen's Bench In Saskatchewan

[Pierrette Venne, Bloc, Saint-Hubert, QC]

On January 20, 1994, the only French-speaking judge on the Court of Queen's Bench in Saskatchewan was declared surplus. As a result, of 27 full-time judges, not one is French-speaking.

My question is this: Can the Minister of Justice tell us whether he has taken measures to appoint without delay at least one francophone judge to the Court of Queen's Bench in Saskatchewan?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, in response to the question I can assure the hon. member I am very much aware of the fact that the one member of that court who is able to hear proceedings in the French language is no longer sitting and that the need continues.

I have reviewed the situation in terms of the applicants who have been approved by the provincial advisory committees. I can tell the hon. member I have the matter under active advisement. I am very much aware of the need to serve the francophone

population of Saskatchewan with judicial services in both official languages.

[Pierrette Venne, Bloc, Saint-Hubert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, according to our information, only Judge Sirois, now declared surplus, could hear cases in French in the Court of Queen's Bench in Saskatchewan.

My question is this: Does the minister not consider the proportion of francophone federal judges in Saskatchewan to be clearly insufficient?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, without engaging in a numbers game let me simply make clear to the hon. member and to the House the commitment which the minister of agriculture from Saskatchewan and I have. We are committed to ensuring that not only in that province but across the country we have persons on the judiciary capable of providing services in languages as may be necessary to ensure that justice is done.

I will approach my responsibilities in Saskatchewan as I do in Ontario, in New Brunswick and in other provinces to ensure that is so.

Ministerial Regional Offices

[Ted White, Reform, North Vancouver, BC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday I attempted to ask the Deputy Prime Minister how she could justify 10 lavishly appointed ministers' regional offices across Canada.

On April 25, 1986 in the House, when she was in the opposition, she called these offices regional powder rooms from which ministers could expand their own political bases and their political propaganda machines.

What political propaganda is going to be coming out of these powder rooms now that they are under Liberal ministerial control?

[David Dingwall, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services and Minister for the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency]

Mr. Speaker, I do not want to comment on the remarks of the hon. member when he refers to powder rooms. The ministerial regional office in Halifax has a washroom; it does not have a powder room. Perhaps I could use one.

However I want to say to the hon. member that the purpose of ministerial regional offices is to cut costs so that ministers of the crown can carry out their responsibilities across the country. That is why in Quebec City, Montreal, Halifax and elsewhere across the country ministerial regional offices are put in place. It is to service the people of Canada at a much lower cost, as opposed to going to private hotels to retain the services therein.

[Ted White, Reform, North Vancouver, BC]

Mr. Speaker, expenditure figures which I could only obtain under access to information seemed to confirm that a propaganda based spending spree took place in one of these regional offices just prior to the 1993 election.

Will the government not admit that the real reason it supports these offices now is that they allow the government to hide propaganda spending out of sight of the public where it can only be accessed through the Access to Information Act?

[David Dingwall, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services and Minister for the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency]

Mr. Speaker, it would be inappropriate for me to comment on what the previous administration has done. However I am glad the hon. member has raised the issue. Perhaps his colleague and friend in the back row might be able to provide him with the necessary information.

Surely the hon. member is not suggesting to Canadians that ministers of the crown who have to travel across the country extensively to carry out their responsibilities are not to meet with Canadians, are not to meet with various groups, regardless of what their socioeconomic standings are. Those are the purposes of ministerial regional offices.

I hope the hon. member will take note that all he has to do to find out the costs associated with ministerial regional offices is to draft a letter to me or to the President of the Treasury Board. All the information will be provided and he will see clearly and unequivocally the costs we have saved.

Pedophilia

[Tom Wappel, Liberal, Scarborough West, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Foreign Affairs.

On January 26, 1994 the Senate of the United States of America voted 99 to 0 to withhold funds for contributions to international organizations until the President certifies that no United Nations agency or affiliated agency grants recognition to an organization that condones pedophilia.

Will the minister declare such an unequivocal policy for Canada and instruct our diplomats to ensure that we never again vote to recognize an organization that condones pedophilia or admits as members those who condone the sexual exploitation of children?

[André Ouellet, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, my answer is an unequivocal yes.

Indian Affairs

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Indian Affairs. Yesterday, I put a question to the minister concerning the eviction notice issued to 143 families living on the Kahnawake reserve. The minister did not answer the question, arguing that the case was before the courts.

Can the minister confirm to us whether this case is still pending because of the stalling tactics of the federal government, as one of the parties involved, the purpose of which is to delay a decision in this case?

[Ron Irwin, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, the case is before the courts. The number is T184389. Nothing much has happened on it since 1989.

I was concerned that nothing would occur until trial. I did check and there is an injunction in place that prevents anything from happening to the people living there until after the litigation is completed.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, that was not the question. Therefore, it is not surprising that I did not receive an answer.

There is, however, one question that the minister can surely answer, as it relates to a matter that is not before the courts. I will speak slowly so that the minister hears it clearly.

This question relates to the argument of genetic purity used to justify the eviction of the families from Kahnawake. Does the minister not recognize that this kind of argument reflects a discriminatory attitude which blatantly contravenes the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms?

[Ron Irwin, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, I do not really care if the hon. member speaks quickly or slowly; I understand the question.

The question that he asked is before the courts in the sense that the charter of rights will be addressed along with the Indian Act. If there is an adverse reaction it is the responsibility of the House and the government to come back with legislation that reflects these things. At that time the member may have to deal with it.

Hopefully it will be dealt with to the hon. member's satisfaction before the courts in which I have more faith than he does.

Employment

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the President of the Treasury Board.

Why is the federal civil service offered the six months' pay in lieu provision of the workforce adjustment plan and in the case of the military up to two years' pay for adjustment for base closures when we already have a UI plan in place as a safety net for people who become unemployed?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for Infrastructure]

Mr. Speaker, as the member knows, a significant number of people from the defence department are being asked to leave, to retire, and they are being given departure incentives to do so. This is normal when dealing with some 16,500 people in jobs that we need to remove in order to meet the budget commitments with respect to reducing the deficit.

That program has been put in place. They can choose not to accept it if they do not wish to, in which case the workforce adjustment policy would come into play and they would be offered an alternative job. I am talking about the civilians who are roughly 50 per cent of that group.

We have dealt with these people in a most fair and equitable fashion in an attempt to reduce the size, to reduce the budget. At the same time we are providing some protection for our employees which is a priority of the government. If they can be retrained and go into something else, we want to ensure they will have an opportunity to do so.

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I point out it is a very rich program and I would argue it is a two-tier system of unemployment insurance.

Considering that the Auditor General has been very critical of the application of the workforce adjustment program, will the Treasury Board president commit to reconsider the need for this program and the new adjustment plan for the military, considering that we will soon have a reformed UI plan to deal with these types of problems.

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for Infrastructure]

Mr. Speaker, I can only repeat that in a very short period of time we have to reduce the size of the military in order to meet our deficit reduction plan.

Does the Reform Party not want us to meet our deficit reduction plan? Does it not want us to get spending down? That is what we are trying to do.

We cannot move that many people that quickly without some incentive program to help them and that is exactly what we are doing. The costs of the program will be met and we will still

meet our deficit reduction program of getting to 3 per cent of GDP in three years.

Points Of Order

[David Walker, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, I wonder if I could raise a point of order with you to get your guidance for the entire House during question period.

It has been the tradition of the House that questions arising from committees not be raised during question period. That is consistent with Beauchesne's section 411(3).

A pattern has been developing among all members of raising matters with ministers of the crown that are in fact before committees. I wonder if you could give us some guidance as to what your expectations are.

[The Speaker]

As a general rule the Chair would of course discourage any questions on matters which are before a committee at that time and the Chair will try to see to it that if there are questions on matters before a committee that they not be put in the House.

That would be the intention of the Chair.

[Stephen Harper, Reform, Calgary West, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate that you are trying to clarify this and I appreciate the parliamentary secretary for bringing it up.

Maybe you could also clarify something for him. In his answer to me yesterday during question period he raised the fact that the matter had been brought up in committee. I wish you would clarify that as well, both the question and the answer.

[The Speaker]

I refer the hon. member to Beauchesne's section 411(3):

Some further limitations seem to be generally understood. A question may not:

(3) seek information about proceedings in a committee which has not yet made its report to the House.

We are dealing here with the proceedings themselves. If there are general questions the Chair would be more apt to permit them. That is why many times when questions are put I ask hon. members to rephrase them so they will be more general in nature. I hope this will be of guidance to all hon. members.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I simply want to emphasize that of course we can refer to what is going on in a committee. It is customary to be able to refer to it in a question and not necessarily to deal with an issue under discussion. That is the nuance which the hon. member should respect.

[The Speaker]

It is not only a nuance; it is understood that we can ask general questions about committees, but I would prefer that we not ask questions about committee procedures because that is now covered by our Standing Orders.