Debates of March 23rd, 1994

Electoral Boundaries

[The Speaker]

I believe this matter is before the House for debate. However, the question itself is of a broad enough nature that if the hon. minister would care to I will permit him to answer.

[André Ouellet, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I think that the hon. member's question refers to a proposal that would save Canadian taxpayers millions of dollars. It seems quite unrealistic at this time to redraw the electoral map which now has too many ridings, according to the hon. member's own party, which says that there are already too many MPs.

This proposal would further increase the number of members. I therefore urge the hon. member to assume his responsibilities for saving taxpayers money and to postpone this plan until later.

[Stephen Harper, Reform, Calgary West, AB]

Mr. Speaker, we have offered to meet with the government any time to negotiate a reduction in the number of members in the House, and the government has refused to do that.

My question is on the constitutionality of this act. During the last suspension of the process, Bill C-67 in the last Parliament, considered legal opinion, indicated to a parliamentary committee at the time that there was an implied time limit for carrying out readjustment under section 51 of the Constitution Act. Delaying it past the next census was a violation of the Constitution and had an impact upon other sections such as section 42(1)(a) of the Constitution Act.

[The Speaker]

Order. The question itself perhaps would find a better response on the Order Paper. It is a very detailed question. I would ask the hon. member to consider putting this type of question on the Order Paper.

Fisheries

[Francis Leblanc, Liberal, Cape Breton Highlands—Canso, NS]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans.

Fishermen in my riding are concerned that their livelihood is being threatened by a few large Canadian vessels fishing bluefin tuna off Bermuda's coast. As the parliamentary secretary knows, Bermuda is new to the bluefin tuna fishery and is not a member of ICCAT, the international body overseeing the conservation of this fragile resource.

This Canadian fishing activity in Bermuda's waters could threaten the ability of other tuna fishermen in the Gulf of St. Lawrence to fish their own quota later this year.

Would the parliamentary secretary please explain to the House and to my constituents what actions the government is taking to stop this inappropriate fishing activity?

[Herb Dhaliwal, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to inform the House the five vessels in question have been formally advised that their activities are not sanctioned by this government and that their existing licences to fish inside the Canadian zone are in jeopardy.

They have also been informed that Canadian tuna and swordfish industry representatives have been advised that the catches of bluefin tuna and swordfish by these Canadian flag vessels will be counted against Canadian quotas.

We are doing everything possible to control these vessels and hope to put an end to it.

Tainted Blood Inquiry

[Pauline Picard, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Health.

In January, Mr. Justice Krever, who is in charge of the tainted-blood inquiry, said that he did not have sufficient funds and resources to carry out his mandate. Questioned by the Official Opposition, the Minister of Health said that a request for additional funds had been presented and was being considered by Treasury Board.

Can the Minister tell us if Treasury Board has finally made a decision on this request for additional funds?

[Diane Marleau, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, we are still reviewing the request today. We will make an announcement once we have made a final decision.

Grain Transportation

[Jake Hoeppner, Reform, Lisgar—Marquette, MB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Transport.

Canada's grain exports are being hit hard by reduced rail movement. According to Howard Restall of XCan Grain, ships are waiting from two to three weeks for prairie canola, forcing XCan to pay as much as $10,000 per day in demurrage. Ships are also leaving empty after collecting demurrage of up to $350,000 without any canola.

When will the minister demand that railways honour their commitment to expediently move farmers' grain when markets demand it, instead of constantly lobbying government to allow them to reduce services?

[Douglas Young, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member raises a question that is causing grave concerns in the industry for shippers, consumers and clients. We are trying to encourage a solution that will be arrived at through consultation among the various players. It is a very complicated matter, as the hon. member would know.

I am informed that the rail companies are trying to come up with some solutions because of the changes in weather and some cars that they would not have been able to use through the winter. Efforts are being made to find cars in the United States for lease. We are actively pursuing this. I recognize the urgency of it and we will do the very best we can.

Points Of Order

[Alfonso Gagliano, Liberal, Saint-Léonard, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. I want to bring to the attention of the House something which happened today in Question Period.

Since the opening of the 35th Parliament, I think all members of this House and especially the whips have always tried to keep decorum so that we can have good debate.

I understand that in the heat of debate sometimes members can heckle or speak a little bit louder. However, today I was very disturbed by what occurred, especially when it involved a political party that before, during and after the election lectured us about how we should behave here. Posters were displayed, not only by an individual member but by more than a row of their seats. I think it was deliberately organized. It is a shame that for the past three months we have been trying to have decorum and today regretfully we broke that practice.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

[The Speaker]

As a matter of fact, since the 35th Parliament began all hon. members, I believe, have done their utmost to have decorum in the House.

As I mentioned in the course of Question Period, we did ask all hon. colleagues to cease and desist from any such displays. I am sure the words of the hon. whip will be taken to heart by all of us because I think it is coming along well and I would encourage hon. members to please keep a sense of decorum in the House.

[Stephen Harper, Reform, Calgary West, AB]

Mr. Speaker, on a point of order. I would ask you to examine the blues from Question Period. You ruled my supplementary question out of order before I had a chance to put it. My question was: "Would the government simply consider looking into these matters with its constitutional lawyer-"

[The Speaker]

I will make this commitment to the hon. member. I will review the blues and if indeed there was an error on my part I will get back to the House and I will try to correct it.

I try to listen as much as I can to the gist of the question before members get to it. Therefore, if I do err I would beg the indulgence of the House. I would also ask that if some questions could be better put on the Order Paper so as to get a more complete answer, then perhaps that is where hon. members should attempt to put that type of question. However, I will make that commitment and I will have a look at the blues.

My colleagues, we are going to have tributes.

Erik John Spicer

[Ted McWhinney, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Mr. Speaker, by announced consent and in my capacity as co-chair of the joint committee on the Library of Parliament, I move the following motion, seconded by the hon. member for Saint-Hubert:

That in recognition for his long and distinguished service as the Chief Executive Officer of the Library of Parliament, Erik John Spicer, Esquire, is hereby appointed as Honorary Officer of the House of Commons as Parliamentary Librarian Emeritus.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

[The Speaker]

As a formality I put this question. Is there unanimous consent?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

(Motion agreed to.)

[The Speaker]

I was going to formally introduce our Librarian Emeritus and now that members have already acclaimed him, I would call on some hon. members to share with us a few of their ideas.

[Pierrette Venne, Bloc, Saint-Hubert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I was pleased to have been asked by my party, the Bloc Quebecois, to rise in this House today to congratulate Mr. Erik John Spicer on his appointment as Parliamentary Librarian Emeritus.

I was first elected to this House on November 21, 1988. As a newcomer and government member at the time, I wanted to know all there was to know. I am naturally curious, of course. I wanted all the information on all items on the agenda, particularly on a subject that has always concerned me: firearms. I wanted to know what legislation and regulations there were in European countries on that subject. I wanted to know under what authority the Americans kept saying that they had an almost

natural right to own firearms. All my questions were answered by the Library of Parliament.

Also, when we sat on committees, and it is still the case today, we could always count on the library, especially for legislative summaries on the various subjects. The Library of Parliament research branch is always ready and willing to provide information to assist us in our quest for truth.

It has also developed briefings for members and departmental assistants so that we and our staff know where to look and who to contact to obtain all the information required for the smooth functioning of our offices.

Furthermore, if you miss one of these briefings, you can always ask the Library of Parliament for the audio tapes. Again, you will get the same excellent service.

All this to say that we greatly appreciate the services developed for us, members of Parliament, as well as for our assistants, to enable us to carry out our duties adequately. Many thanks to Mr. Spicer.

[The Speaker]

We will hear from the hon. member for Beaver River. Inadvertently I cut off my colleague for Vancouver Quadra, whom I will recognize after the member for Beaver River.

[Deborah Grey, Reform, Beaver River, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on behalf of my party today as well and offer congratulations to Mr. Spicer for a long and remarkable career in this place, certainly longer than many have been able to celebrate.

I have known Erik Spicer for five years in my capacity as the member of Parliament for Beaver River. Of course, in my unique position in the last Parliament I must say it was wonderful to have somebody to call on who knew what they were doing in Parliament. The services that were offered to me sitting as an independent member were just terrific.

To know that there was an incredible number of well qualified people in the Library offering their services and help to me was marvellous. As a qualified English teacher who had spent 10 years in the teaching profession to see a library like this at my disposal was marvellous. I want to thank Mr. Spicer so much for being helpful to me and to my staff.

What I will always remember about Mr. Spicer as I look at him now in the gallery is his marvellous smile. He is somebody who has always been cheerful. I do not think there has been a time I have come across him, whether it has been in the elevator, the Library, anywhere in the hallways or in the cafeteria, when he has not been cheerful and very pleasant to work with. Certainly that is much appreciated as well.

In this new Parliament of course the Library was just as astounded as the table and everybody else to see so many new members elected to this Parliament. I am sure that was a huge surprise but also an incredible amount of work.

From the floor of the House of Commons today I would like to say thank you on behalf of all the members here, especially new members, for the orientation sessions that were offered regarding the Library and all the services that have been given.

What a marvellous place to work in, the parliamentary library. I will never forget my first steps through that doorway and just literally having my breath taken away when I looked at that place. What a marvellous place to have worked for several decades now. I know that he will miss it a great deal.

Mr. Spicer is leaving probably one of the most beautiful offices on Parliament Hill, but he is going to see all kinds of beautiful places.

Mr. Speaker, as you and I and the Spicers know, they love to travel. This will be a good jumping off spot for them, going from a beautiful office on Parliament Hill, the finest that Canada has to offer, to many other places.

I would like to pay tribute to Erik and his wife Helen, both of whom are librarians. I was amused when I read in a recent issue of the Hill Times : ``That a major occupation for them while moving from a large home into a smaller condo has been the packing of their books for the move''. That is no small wonder. With two librarians one can imagine the number of books in their private library. I dare say that has been a huge challenge to both of them.

I would like to pay tribute also to their daughter Erika who grew up in a home with I am sure an incredible love and respect for books. I am sure that she passes that on to her three daughters today. They are going from a beautiful place to many visits all around the world. I know they will be stopping in Vancouver regularly to visit their daughter and granddaughters.

One final memory that I have which will remain special with me forever is being on the elevator a couple of weeks ago. There was a group of senior citizens who obviously had been for dinner in the parliamentary restaurant. I just happened to be on the elevator riding down from my fifth floor office and I had a little visit with one of the women there. She said to me: "A group of friends and I have come from the lodge today and we had lunch in the parliamentary restaurant". I said: "Well, that is really nice. Is there a special occasion or what?" She said: "No, not particularly. We were just getting together. Erik Spicer is my son". It was just a treat for her to be able to come and celebrate that. She just beamed when she talked about her son Erik. That was so special because they were out for lunch on Parliament Hill and having a marvellous time at it. I will always remember the gleam in her eye and the smile that she shared with me when

she said: "Erik Spicer is my son". She was proud of him and I would say she has ever reason to be proud of Erik.

Good luck and congratulations to both of them as they retire. They are held in high esteem in this place. God bless them both.

[Ted McWhinney, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I echo the remarks of the hon. member for Saint-Hubert and the hon. member for Beaver River in the gracious tribute they have paid to our parliamentary Librarian Emeritus. Erik Spicer served for 33 years at the rank of deputy minister. That must be a record of achievement for Ottawa. He has presided over the transition of the Library from the classic library formation to the electronic age, at the same time conserving the immense richness of the past of the accumulated collections.

A librarian sometimes does not have the time to read his books he is so busy. However, this is a gentleman who has read books, a cultivated, witty, articulate gentleman. He has recognized, as Solon did, that wise law making rests upon wise study of the past of the accumulated wisdom in books. One cannot separate a library from the business of making laws. They go together.

It is in this sense that the Library of Parliament represents a treasure house. It is the jewel in the crown in a real sense in this large parliamentary edifice over which you preside, Mr. Speaker.

What Erik Spicer has done, the co-operation he has given, the great impartiality, the openness with which he has presided over the researchers-and never forget we have a magnificent research staff freely available to all parties, to people of all opinions within the House-has brought this together, concentrated in his own very unique personality. We shall all miss him.

We wish him, his wife and his family a pleasant and I am sure an intellectually active retirement. Thank you very much for accepting the treasure of Parliament when you were appointed Librarian, for conserving it, for adding to it, for augmenting it and making it one of the great institutions of the Commonwealth, of the world which has inherited its parliamentary traditions ultimately from the Greeks and Romans and the Britons and the French and all the new cultures that our country represents.

Thank you, sir, and a pleasant and honourable retirement which you have so richly earned.

[Nelson Riis, NDP, Kamloops, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I too am pleased to join with my colleagues to wish our distinguished Librarian well.

I could not help but think when the member for Beaver River indicated that the first time she walked into the Library and looked up she was awestruck, I thought she was going to say it was because of Erik Spicer. I think that is how we all felt when we first met Erik Spicer. He probably was the ultimate symbol of devoted public service.

I remember over the years having all sorts of library needs or research needs that not only were always met and met in a timely way, but always beyond even my wildest expectations and wildest hopes. The leadership that he provided for so many years was nothing short of awesome and outstanding.

Not only was Erik Spicer a distinguished Librarian for many years, but more than that, as my hon. friend from Beaver River intimated, he was a friend to everyone. Whenever you would encounter Erik Spicer you knew that you were with a friend, always there to ask a friendly word about how life was going and how your trials and tribulations were unfolding as a member of Parliament.

He is a genuine individual, a gentleman in every sense of the term, an outstanding and dedicated Librarian, a professional known around the world for his ability and leadership in establishing for Canada and for us here in Parliament what must be one of the best libraries and research facilities available to parliamentarians anywhere.

We will miss him, but we will be seeing Erik Spicer around, knowing the kind of gentleman he is. On behalf of my colleagues in the New Democratic Party and all of the independents we wish not only him but his wife Helen and daughter well. We hope to be seeing him for a long time in the future.