Debates of March 24th, 1994

Unemployment Insurance Reform

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the main weakness in the Finance minister's budget is that is does not contain a single project of major significance that would help spur the economy. That is what is wrong with his budget. Does the Minister of Finance not recognize that he must introduce bold measures and join with the private sector in investing in forward-looking projects such as the high-speed train, projects which would give some hope and some dignity back to the unemployed?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, at the beginning of his question, the hon. member quoted from a survey which was reported in this morning's edition of La Presse . I would like to quote the article in question: ``After leading the way in the House of Commons on the issue of the military college in Saint-Jean, the Bloc has chosen not to mention this matter at all in its review of the Martin budget. Instead, on the subject of defence, it criticizes the minister for not making deeper cuts''.

How inconsistent, Mr. Speaker. How hypocritical!

[Some hon. members]

Oh, Oh!

[Some hon. members]

Withdraw what you said!

[Paul Martin, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

You are right, I withdraw the reference to hypocritical.

Monetary Policy

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, when the Liberals were in opposition, they strongly denounced the policy of high interest rates pursued by the former Governor of the Bank of Canada, John Crow. Now the excessive increase of the Bank of Canada rate that we saw yesterday is another sign which shows that nothing has changed.

My question for the Minister of Finance is this: Why did the Liberal Party of Canada promise in the election campaign to redefine the monetary policy, when it is acting exactly like the previous government by obsessively fighting inflation, which has been eliminated, instead of fighting unemployment?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, we will maintain the strategy of pursuing an inflation target of 1 to 3 per cent, with a goal of 2 per cent. We will do so because we want to create jobs and we want the economy to grow. The hon. member, as a reputable economist, knows very well why and I wonder why he asks such silly questions.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Speaker]

Order! The language is getting a little rough today. Perhaps more moderate words could be used. I would hope that we could speak to each other in a civil manner.

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Given what he just said, I ask the Minister of Finance if he could explain to us how his position is different from that of the Conservatives?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, our objection when the Conservative government was in power was the really savage way they wrestled with inflation to bring it down. But we paid the price and we are there now! After making such hard-won gains, now is not the time to give them up.

Government Expenditures

[Deborah Grey, Reform, Beaver River, AB]

Mr. Speaker, for four and a half years I sat in the House and watched the Conservative government lose the respect of the Canadian people.

During those years the Liberals promised that when they were in government things would be different.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

[Deborah Grey, Reform, Beaver River, AB]

Mr. Speaker, it has become apparent that the government is practising business as usual. The red book

promised: "A Liberal government will reduce grants to business". Once elected that very same Liberal government begins shovelling money over to its friends in business.

My question is for the Minister of Finance. How does he justify the full blast operation of what Terence Corcoran calls the Ottawa grant machine in defiance of the government's own red book?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, perhaps the member ought to be a bit more specific in terms of what grants she is opposing. I read Mr. Corcoran's column.

Is she opposing the infrastructure program? Is she opposing the program that every single province in the country has endorsed? Is she opposing the infrastructure program that every major municipality has requested?

[An hon. member]

Perhaps we should have recall.

[Paul Martin, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

That is right, perhaps we should have recall, considering that every province and every municipality wants to have the infrastructure program. If she does not like it, maybe we should have recall.

[Deborah Grey, Reform, Beaver River, AB]

Mr. Speaker, we would love a definition of what infrastructure is and if it includes Saddledomes and hockey stadiums, then we do have to ask questions.

I have a supplementary question for the Minister of Finance also on the topic of business as usual.

Two separate squadrons of members of Parliament and senators are lifting off for Paris in the springtime. One of those groups will be accompanied by spouses at taxpayers' expense.

Will the minister explain to his colleagues that compounding the wastefulness of an already useless junket makes his efforts to cut the deficit that much harder?

[Alfonso Gagliano, Liberal, Saint-Léonard, QC]

Mr. Speaker, first of all I would like to say that the trip does not involve the authority of the government. It is the executive of the parliamentary association that is elected by the members of this House.

It is important for us who believe that parliamentary exchange with the rest of the world is important. This is a national Parliament and such exchanges should continue.

Concerning the way delegations are formed and the expenses of such delegations, I would like to remind members that on January 17 this year we announced a plan to reduce costs to the House of Commons budget. In that plan was the way we should restructure our parliamentary association.

I am sure that if the member has enough patience in the few months to come before this session adjourns we will have a new system of parliamentary delegation. I am sure that the representative of the Reform Party on the board will contribute to that new approach.

[The Speaker]

I would point out to the hon. member that parliamentary trips or voyages, if I might call them that, come under the purview not of the government per se but from a committee of Parliament. With that I will go to the third question.

[Deborah Grey, Reform, Beaver River, AB]

Mr. Speaker, those who travel with the parliamentary associations are not paying their own way. The taxpayers are paying their way.

One final supplementary question for the Minister of Finance, still on the theme of business as usual.

It is reported that a poll commissioned by the human resources department cost $250,000. Would the Minister of Finance in his efforts to trim the deficit, as I know he is concerned, investigate whether this was the lowest bid the department of human resources received or whether the most competitive bid which was recommended by the department was passed over by the minister in favour of his hometown pollster?

[The Speaker]

We are bordering here on impugning motives. I am sure we would be able to lower the decibel level just a bit.

I would hope that in both the questions and the answers we would not impugn motives to hon. members of Parliament.

Unemployment Insurance

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Finance.

An Info Update sent to Regional Directors of Canada Employment Centres shows disturbing figures. Out of $2,355 million worth of cuts, in 1994-95 and 1995-96, $630 million will come from the Maritimes and $735 million, each year, from Quebec. That is 60 per cent of unemployment insurance cuts for one third of the population.

How can the Minister argue that his government's priority is job creation, when its only strategy is an attack on 85 per cent of the unemployed, and moreover in the poorest provinces?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, these figures are not correct. In fact, the changes to the unemployment insurance program will affect only 2 or 3 per cent of the beneficiaries. I would appreciate it if the hon. member would report true facts, not fiction.