House of Commons Hansard #58 of the 35th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was sport.

Topics

Reproductive TechnologiesOral Question Period

2:55 p.m.

Etobicoke Centre Ontario

Liberal

Allan Rock LiberalMinister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada

Mr. Speaker, I decline to give the undertaking. I think it is premature. The royal commission which reported in February delivered some 300 recommendations to government, most of which were for my colleague, the Minister of Health, but many of which affected the Ministry of Justice in so far as they suggested changes to the Criminal Code.

As I mentioned to the hon. member on the last occasion when she raised this important matter, there are complex questions arising from the recommendations such as, for example, the intersection of criminal law where it tries to prevent horrendous interference with genetic matters and, on the other hand, legitimate research in the university setting which can go to push back the frontiers of medical knowledge.

I say to the hon. member that I share her sense that these issues are important, that they should come before Parliament, but I will not bring them here until we have assessed them thoroughly so that we can form the issues properly and members of this House can make a decision based on all the facts.

Reproductive TechnologiesOral Question Period

2:55 p.m.

Bloc

Pierrette Venne Bloc Saint-Hubert, QC

Mr. Speaker, does the minister intend to amend the Criminal Code and prohibit the marketing of human embryos, which is a measure recommended in the Baird report and largely supported by the public?

Reproductive TechnologiesOral Question Period

2:55 p.m.

Etobicoke Centre Ontario

Liberal

Allan Rock LiberalMinister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada

Mr. Speaker, with respect to the hon. member, I decline to give a piecemeal position of the government on these issues. I would rather have the matter come forward in its

entirety with the complex underlying issues fully assessed. Therefore, I will respond to her question at the appropriate time.

First NationsOral Question Period

2:55 p.m.

Reform

John Duncan Reform North Island—Powell River, BC

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister.

The wife of the chair of the Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development has been hired by a federally funded Assembly of First Nations as a media relations officer.

My colleague from the Official Opposition has asked for the chairman's resignation. A spokesperson from the Prime Minister's office is quoted as saying of this arrangement: "This is not a conflict". Does the Prime Minister agree with this statement attributed to his office?

First NationsOral Question Period

3 p.m.

Windsor West Ontario

Liberal

Herb Gray LiberalLeader of the Government in the House of Commons and Solicitor General of Canada

Mr. Speaker, I am answering the question in my capacity as House leader. I point out to the hon. member that a committee chairman is not a member of the government. Therefore the concerns which underlie the hon. member's question do not apply.

Furthermore, I think we have reached the time in our society when spouses can be considered independent of members of Parliament and have their own careers.

First NationsOral Question Period

3 p.m.

The Speaker

Order. As I mentioned last week in a brief statement which I made, committees really stand on their own. Questions with regard to the specifics of committees should probably be addressed in the committees themselves. If, however, there are questions of a general nature which I feel impact upon the administration of government then by and large I would permit these questions to be in order.

I would urge hon. members, if they have questions with the administration of government in mind as opposed to committees, to put them as such.

First NationsOral Question Period

3 p.m.

Reform

John Duncan Reform North Island—Powell River, BC

Mr. Speaker, this is another example of the need for this long awaited ethics counsellor.

Will the Prime Minister agree that the long awaited ethics counsellor would find this arrangement to be a blatant conflict of interest?

First NationsOral Question Period

3 p.m.

Saint-Maurice Québec

Liberal

Jean Chrétien LiberalPrime Minister

Mr. Speaker, the answer given by the House leader is the appropriate one.

In our society a member of Parliament is a member of Parliament and the career of his or her spouse should not be affected by the status of a member of Parliament.

There are some restrictions for cabinet ministers that must be respected, but spouses of members of Parliament have the right to earn a living. They have the capacity to earn a living. This is the fundamental right of equality in our society.

HandgunsOral Question Period

3 p.m.

Liberal

Warren Allmand Liberal Notre-Dame-De-Grâce, QC

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Justice.

On Monday the Minister of Justice met with representatives of Concordia University, the Canadian Safety Council, the Canadian Bar Association, the Ottawa Chief of Police and others who asked for a ban on handguns.

Since handguns are not used for hunting but are very often used for criminal purpose, will the minister propose legislative amendments to implement these proposals? What was his answer to these groups on Monday?

HandgunsOral Question Period

3 p.m.

Etobicoke Centre Ontario

Liberal

Allan Rock LiberalMinister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada

Mr. Speaker, I enjoyed the meeting on Monday. The delegation that came to see me in my office was as described by the hon. member and served to remind me that the vast majority of Canadians want effective gun control in the country.

It is recognized that this is only part of the solution. It is recognized that we have to deal with the smuggling of illegal arms and deal properly with those who use firearms in the commission of offences. At the same time it is important to recognize that guns are used in suicides, over 1,000 each year, and that 3,000 firearms are lost or stolen from the homes of lawful owners each year and then turn up in the hands of criminals who subsequently injure or kill with them.

While respecting the legitimate rights of lawful gun owners in the country, the government is committed toward more effective gun control. We will be responding to concerns such as those expressed on Monday last in my office by those who visited on the occasion described by the hon. member.

Income Tax ActRoutine Proceedings

3:05 p.m.

Liberal

Beryl Gaffney Liberal Nepean, ON

moved for leave to introduce Bill C-241, an act to amend the Income Tax Act (child support payments).

Mr. Speaker, the current tax treatment of child support payments requires custodial parents to pay taxes on the support they receive while non-custodial parents are allowed to fully deduct the amount.

Canada's tax policy taxes child support payments unlike what we see in the United States, Australia, Britain, Sweden, and many other countries of the world.

While the average child support order covers less than half the minimum cost of raising a child, up to one-third or more of the support payments that are meant to help feed and clothe children are taken away in taxes.

This private member's bill will alleviate this injustice and will work to bring fairness into our tax system, particularly as it relates to the future of our children.

I might add that I am paralleling this private member's bill with my private member's motion. The issue is relevant and this injustice to our nation's children must be corrected.

(Motions deemed adopted, bill read the first time and printed.)

PetitionsRoutine Proceedings

3:05 p.m.

Liberal

Jean-Robert Gauthier Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON

Mr. Speaker, I have two petitions signed by about 40 constituents of mine.

The first petition deals with the sanctity of human life. The petitioners pray that Parliament ensure that the present provisions of the Criminal Code of Canada prohibiting assisted suicide be enforced vigorously and that Parliament make no change in the law which would sanction or allow the aiding or abetting of suicide or active or passive euthanasia.

The second petition deals with the sanctity of life but for a different reason. The petitioners pray that Parliament act immediately to protect the unborn child by amending the Criminal Code to extend the same protection enjoyed by born human beings to unborn human beings.

PetitionsRoutine Proceedings

3:05 p.m.

Liberal

Elijah Harper Liberal Churchill, MB

Mr. Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order 36, I have the honour to present certified petitions from over 100 of my constituents and others in support of the increased use of the port of Churchill.

The port of Churchill is an untapped national resource. The petitioners call on Parliament to direct the hon. minister responsible for the wheat board to maximize the port's use and to ship at least 5 per cent of Canada's annual grain shipments through the port.

The Canadians who built the port and the railway to Churchill had a vision of Canada and of the north. I join the petitioners in hoping that this vision can live on.

PetitionsRoutine Proceedings

3:10 p.m.

Liberal

Jerry Pickard Liberal Essex—Kent, ON

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to present a petition on ethanol. The ethanol industry will certainly create a boon for the agricultural industry. Ethanol is one of the most environmentally friendly fuels available.

Residents in the Chatham, Essex and Kent county areas are very concerned that the government show a consideration on taxation with regard to ethanol.

They humbly ask the Parliament of Canada to allow a decade of tax allowance in order that the industry may get under way. The economic values to the industry are far greater than the tax costs.

PetitionsRoutine Proceedings

3:10 p.m.

Liberal

Pat O'Brien Liberal London—Middlesex, ON

Mr. Speaker, I too rise in the House today to present a petition in support of ethanol as a fuel. Its time has come in Ontario.

Some 200 petitioners call on the government to extend the exemption on the excise portion of ethanol for a decade to allow the strong and self-sufficient ethanol industry in Canada to go forward.

I present this petition on their behalf.

PetitionsRoutine Proceedings

3:10 p.m.

Liberal

Rose-Marie Ur Liberal Lambton—Middlesex, ON

Mr. Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order 36, I am pleased to present on behalf of the constituents of Lambton-Middlesex and area a petition which has been duly certified by the clerk of petitions.

It requests Parliament to maintain the present exemption on the excise portion of ethanol for a decade, allowing for a strong and self-sufficient ethanol industry in Canada to go forward.

Questions On The Order PaperRoutine Proceedings

3:10 p.m.

Beauséjour New Brunswick

Liberal

Fernand Robichaud LiberalSecretary of State (Parliamentary Affairs)

Mr. Speaker, I would suggest that all questions be allowed to stand.

Questions On The Order PaperRoutine Proceedings

3:10 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

Does the House agree?

Questions On The Order PaperRoutine Proceedings

3:10 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

Motions For PapersRoutine Proceedings

3:10 p.m.

Beauséjour New Brunswick

Liberal

Fernand Robichaud LiberalSecretary of State (Parliamentary Affairs)

Mr. Speaker, I would suggest that all notices of motions for the production of papers be allowed to stand.

Motions For PapersRoutine Proceedings

3:10 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

Does the House agree?

Motions For PapersRoutine Proceedings

3:10 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

Point Of OrderRoutine Proceedings

3:10 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

Dear colleagues, the Chair is now ready to deal with the point of order raised by the hon. member for Chicoutimi, on Monday, April 18, 1994, concerning the manner in which certain petitions have recently been presented in the House.

The right of the public to petition Parliament is very important because it constitutes the only means by which individual Canadians can directly place grievances before this body and make their concerns known. As is noted in Bourinot's Fourth Edition at page 231, the signing and presentation of public petitions is highly appreciated by Parliament and in many cases assists it in forming its opinions and in taking appropriate action.

Since individual Canadians are not permitted to address the House directly, as members know, petitions are presented by members. Groups and individuals with petitions for the House must therefore enlist the aid of MPs to have their petitions certified and presented. Citation 1038 of Beauchesne's sixth edition states that members are not bound to present petitions and cannot be compelled to do so. Nevertheless, it is not unusual for members to present a petition to the House whether or not they agree with its contents.

Under the provisions of the standing orders a petition may be presented in one of two ways. Standing Order 36(5) states:

A petition to the House may be presented by a Member at any time during the sitting of the House by filing the same with the Clerk of the House.

This is also known as tabling by the back door. The second method of presenting a public petition is prescribed by Standing Order 36(6) which states:

Any Member desiring to present a petition, in his or her place in the House may do so on "Presenting Petitions", a period not to exceed 15 minutes, during the ordinary daily routine of business.

As noted at page 111 of the Annotated Standing Orders, several conditions apply to the presentation of petitions in the House during Routine Proceedings, the most notable of which is the prohibition contained in Standing Order 36(7) on "debate on or in relation to" petitions presented.

On February 26, 1986, Speaker Bosley issued guidelines which not only reiterated provisions of Standing Order 36(7) but also invoked the practices which had evolved here on the manner of presenting petitions, and I quote:

In presenting a petition during Routine Proceedings, the member may make a brief-

I underline the word brief.

-summary of the prayer of the petition, state the parties from whom it comes and the number of signatures it contains, but may not make a speech or enter into debate on or in relation to the petition. The member should also indicate that the petition has been certified in order, pursuant to the standing orders.

Therefore, commenting in any way on the merits of a petition could be considered a form of debate on the petition. In this Parliament, on several occasions some Members have commented favourably or adversely on the petitions they are presenting, prompting other members to voice various objections to those comments.

Since there is only a limited period during each sitting when members may present petitions, saying anything other than what is normally permitted takes time away from other members who wish to present petitions. Members should bear in mind that the Member presenting a petition in the House or filing it with the Clerk is acting as a messenger or intermediary between Parliament and the petitioners.

If the rules permitted debate on petitions or if the subject of the petition were to come before the House for debate in some other manner, the member's view on the subject matter would be relevant and vital to the process. As things stand, however, the role of the member, while essential, is limited.

Therefore the Chair would ask members to refrain from commenting on petitions they present other than to simply note the prayer of the petition, the number of signataries, and their place of residence.

Finally, should members choose to present petitions with which they disagree they may do so during Routing Proceedings without comment or simply file them with the Clerk of the House at any time.

Both methods of presentation fulfil the requirements of the standing orders and both are equally valid.

I hope this brief statement will help explain the procedure on presenting petitions to the House.

I thank the hon. member for Chicoutimi for raising this matter and thus allowing the Chair to provide the House with an explanation of the process.

The House resumed consideration from April 26 of the motion that Bill C-22, an act respecting certain agreements concerning the redevelopment and operation of terminals 1 and 2 at Lester B. Pearson International Airport, be read the second time and referred to a committee; and of the amendment; and of the amendment to the amendment.

Pearson International Airport Agreements ActGovernment Orders

3:15 p.m.

Bloc

Philippe Paré Bloc Louis-Hébert, QC

Mr. Speaker, Bill C-22 will be an opportunity for me to demonstrate the unfair treatment given Jean Lesage Airport in my riding, compared with other Canadian airports.

Since the opening of the 35th Parliament on January 17, we have on many occasions heard Liberal and Reform Party members boast of the advantages of Canadian federalism for Quebecers. In my speech on Bill C-22, I will try to show how different the real situation is by looking at the problems we have with air transportation.

First of all, we condemn the centralizing approach of Transport Canada in decisions that affect Quebec. For instance, there is the story around the selection of Mirabel as a second airport for Montreal. The result: 20 years of economic disaster. Mirabel is still finding its feet, Dorval has stagnated, and Toronto has emerged as the big winner from Transport Canada's planning disaster. From 1970 to 1991, Air Canada moved 12 per cent of its employees from Montreal to Toronto, and from 1977 to 1991, Montreal lost 22 per cent of its pilots, while the number of pilots in Toronto increased by 34 per cent. In 1988, Air Canada transferred its pilot training services to Toronto, and in 1991, 12 management positions were transferred as well.

The centralizing approach of Transport Canada has affected air traffic control as well.

Terminal control units have been transferred to regional control centres. Halifax, Thunder Bay, North Bay, Regina, Saskatoon and Sault Ste. Marie each lost their radar control facilities.

The terminal at the airport in Quebec City will be closed in July 1994, which means that after that date, aside from the seven regional control centres, only Ottawa and Calgary will be allowed to maintain their air traffic control units.

Nearly $1 billion has been spent as part of a plan that has created a number of security problems by making vast areas extremely vulnerable, in case of a malfunction in regional radars or if regional control centres have to be evacuated in an emergency, and I will get back to this later on.

I would now like to make some comparisons to illustrate how ignorant Liberal and Reform Party members are when they claim Quebec is complaining on a full stomach.

The airport in Quebec City was built on 633 hectares of land, the airport in Halifax on 930 hectares, Winnipeg on 1504 hectares, Toronto on 1714 hectares and Edmonton on 2669 hectares.

Liberal and Reform Party members will have to admit that Quebecers paid approximately 25 per cent of the cost of these locations, which are much bigger than the site at Jean Lesage Airport in Quebec City.

These properties have cost Quebecers a lot of money. Only the airports in Newfoundland, Charlottetown, Regina, Yellowknife and Whitehorse are on sites smaller than the location in Quebec City.

If we compare air terminal areas, Quebec has 12,126 square metres, Ottawa has 18,044, Winnipeg has 24,834, Halifax has 24,870 and Edmonton 34,374. Liberal and Reform Party members will have to admit that Quebecers paid 25 per cent of the cost of the air terminals in these Canadian cities, while they have to make do with an area two to three times as small. Once again, the other provinces have cost Quebec a lot of money.

My Liberal and Reform Party colleagues might want to justify Transport Canada's neglect of Quebec, by assuming that the volume of air traffic at the airport in Quebec City is smaller than at other Canadian airports.

Here are some more figures to demonstrate the greed of Transport Canada. What we have here is the increase in transborder and international flights from 1988 to 1992: Halifax went up 12.5 per cent; Winnipeg, 13 per cent; Calgary, 15 per cent; Quebec City, 179 p. 100.

I did not make this up. These figures are from Transport Canada.

This was about increases in volume. If we compare the flight volume in Quebec City with the volume at the other airports I mentioned, we see that these volumes are comparable. It is therefore not surprising that, with a comparable flight volume and an operating area two to three times as small, the quality of service provided by Transport Canada at Jean Lesage Airport is very poor. In fact, according to Transport Canada's own criteria, the level of service at the airport in Quebec City, rates an F, which means: system saturated, congestion and unacceptable delays. So much for the profitable federalism you are trying to sell Quebecers!

Everyone refers to Jean Lesage Airport as a bush airport. Considering the millions of dollars invested in other Canadian airports and especially in Toronto, the situation in Quebec city is

a disgrace. The only explanation is the irresponsible attitude, if not bad faith, of Transport Canada and the Liberal and Conservative members who sat and sit on the benches opposite.

This is one more indication that, under Canadian federalism, Liberal and Conservative members from Quebec have always done the bidding of the English Canadian majority and never had any real power. The presence of Prime Ministers from Quebec was, and still is, merely an illusion of power.

Let us now go back to air traffic control. While the regional centres in other provinces serve, on average, some 2.6 million people, in Quebec, according to Transport Canada plans, the Montreal regional air traffic control centre will be serving a population of 7 million. This is what we mean by profitable federalism for all Canadians, except Quebecers, who are paying to provide other provinces with services they can only dream of.

We are not fooled by all this! Why is Transport Canada trying to close the Quebec City airport terminal air traffic control unit? The reason invoked is savings. However, we do not believe it, because we can prove that a series of decisions proposed by Transport Canada will require much larger investments than what is requested by the people involved in the Quebec City area. We believe that the real reason, although nobody would admit to it, is the elimination of a French-speaking air traffic control centre. Then Canada would be left with only two officially bilingual centres, one in Montreal and one in Ottawa.

Speaking of bilingualism at the Ottawa airport, how do you expect francophones of this country to feel that they get some respect, when they know that Transport Canada has been trying unsuccessfully for five years to render air traffic control bilingual at the airport of the national capital of a country which claims to have an official languages policy. This is the Prime Minister's Canada.

By the way, why was the Ottawa airport terminal air traffic control unit not transferred to Toronto, like all other units within a given region? Air traffic control in Ottawa was supposed to become bilingual, so if it were to be transferred to Toronto, could that centre be expected to become bilingual one day? The answer is obvious.

This is one more example of the so-called profitability of federalism as it applies, this time, to air transportation. Over the years, Quebecers have come to realize that Canadian federalism cannot be reformed and cannot be profitable. I should add, by the way, that if the other provinces had not come to the same conclusion, that is to say that Quebec is profitable for them, why would they be so strenuously opposed to Quebec sovereignty?

As for the possibility of the Canadian government compensating people who were about to extort millions of dollars from Canadians, it is outrageous. If we should compensate friends of Liberal and Conservative regimes for profit losses, how should we compensate Quebecers for 125 years of federalism that kept them unemployed and dependent? This unfair treatment of the people of Quebec began in 1840, when England imposed the Act of Union between Upper and Lower Canada. In doing so, England wanted to make Canadians living in Lower Canada, French Canadians, pay part of Upper Canada's debt. Quebec has already paid its share of compensation and then some.

Therefore, Mr. Speaker, clearly, I will vote against this bill.