Debates of April 27th, 1994

Challenger Jet

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I have already explained they have asked me to travel on these planes for security reasons. I was already in Mexico and I stayed south for a few days. The member would have complained if the plane had travelled back and forth like it did when it was a trip for the Governor General.

I think they are doing a big disservice to an industry. I was talking with Canadair the other day. That type of question talks down on Canadian airplanes because you pretend it costs tons of money and that is not true. The figure you use is not the real one.

[The Speaker]

Colleagues, I recognize that in the heat of debate we sometimes forget the Speaker. I would ask all of you to please address your remarks to the Chair.

If the right hon. Prime Minister has not finished, I invite him to finish. If he has, I will go to the next question.

[Myron Thompson, Reform, Wild Rose, AB]

I have a supplementary, Mr. Speaker. What did not happen was we did not address the extravagance. It sounds like a two tier system to me. Security for the Prime Minister is extremely important. We realize that.

Did the Prime Minister check the private charter prices? I did and he could have saved $125,000. Why not save money for a change? Quit being so reckless. Will he stop being reckless?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I am doing that. It is a plane that is owned by the Canadian government to be used by the Prime Minister of Canada.

I have checked too. I asked Canadair if these planes were transferred to them how much they would charge the government for travelling. They said it would be less than $3,500 an hour. That is the real cost of using these planes.

Not only that, when you calculate the cost of the pilots, you have to understand these are national defence pilots. They have to be in the air so many hours in a month anyway to keep their licences. However you charge the cost to the government when a minister is on board and you do not complain when they use the plane for training.

Be a bit respectful. The Prime Minister of the country should be able to travel like the RCMP requests.

Social Program Reform

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Kamouraska—Rivière-Du-Loup, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Minister of Human Resources Development.

Profound differences remain between Ottawa and the provinces regarding the reform of our social programs. As you know, a federal-provincial conference on the subject was cancelled at the last minute because of objections raised by several provinces.

Furthermore, the minister promised to release a policy paper early next month, setting forth the government's choices and options. Does the minister intend to proceed according to schedule and release his action plan next week, as he promised?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, contrary to what the hon. member alleges, all the provinces are still very much committed to participating in the process of reform.

I spoke to provincial ministers over the last several days both face to face and by telephone. All of them indicated a continued willingness to work together to find important measures to

deliver programs more effectively and more efficiently to Canadians.

When the hon. member asserts there is great conflict and problems, he is not describing what in fact takes place. We postponed the meeting for a period of a couple of weeks to allow the provinces to have more time. I have indicated that we will have a meeting of deputy ministers within a couple of weeks to go over this documentation and based upon that we will then set a new timetable for ministerial meetings.

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Kamouraska—Rivière-Du-Loup, QC]

Mr. Speaker, will the minister confirm that the federal-provincial conference, already cancelled once, has been postponed once again, this time indefinitely, because of the continuing deadlock with British Columbia, Alberta, Ontario and Quebec?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member lives in a world of fiction and fantasy. He simply makes up things and then tries to launch them as facts.

That is simply not true. I told him before he read the second question he had prepared that I have talked to all provincial ministers in each province who have indicated their continued willingness to co-operate to get social reform in this country, to put people back to work, to provide a better sense of security and to give some hope back to Canadians.

Infrastructure

[Tony Ianno, Liberal, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

My question is for the Minister responsible for Infrastructure.

As the government moves forward with the renewal of Canada's environmental, communications and transportation infrastructure, many of my constituents in Trinity-Spadina are looking forward to the new jobs that will be created by the program for today's and tomorrow's economy.

Can the minister tell us how many jobs Canadians can expect to have generated by this program and its spinoffs and when will these badly needed projects commence?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for Infrastructure]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for the question which gives me the opportunity to give more good news to this House on how this Liberal government is getting Canadians back to work.

Since I reported last Friday, we have an increase of $8 million of projects that have been approved, another 400 people, and we are now up to 5,500 jobs. We have approved over 350 applications and we have another thousand in the pipeline. What is more, there are people in rural Saskatchewan at this very moment constructing and reconstructing roads for the benefit of the citizens in those communities.

Finally, the original estimate of 60,000 jobs has now been revised as a result of accurate data from Statistics Canada.

Tobacco

[Jack Ramsay, Reform, Crowfoot, AB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister.

When the federal government lowered the cost of cigarettes in an attempt to cut off smuggling, it spawned new problems including increased smuggling of alcohol and interprovincial smuggling of cheap cigarettes.

I ask the Prime Minister if the government has any realistic plans to put out the fires that his cigarette policies have lit.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the program that we put in place to stop the smuggling of cigarettes has been a great success. There were reports that there was an increase in smoking but the articles did not report the fact that cigarette export sales declined while domestic shipments increased.

In terms of consumption, when you look at the total number of cigarette shipments a year ago compared to the total number of cigarettes shipments this year, there was a decrease of 3 per cent.

[Jack Ramsay, Reform, Crowfoot, AB]

A supplementary, Mr. Speaker, for the Prime Minister.

Earlier this month the premier of Alberta in his role as chairman of the most recent western premiers' conference wrote to the Prime Minister asking for his co-operation to combat the potential flood of smuggled tobacco from central Canada into western Canada. One of the recommendations was to implement a uniform federal tobacco tax rate across all of Canada to lessen the incentive for interprovincial smuggling.

Can the Prime Minister tell the House if he has made any effort to adopt this proposal from the western premiers?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, we made exactly the same offer to all the provinces. Some decided to take it, others decided not to take it. We have offered exactly the same to all the provinces. We did not treat any province differently.

Collège Militaire Royal De Saint-Jean

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of National Defence has repeated many times that the government would soon make public its decision on the future of the military college in Saint-Jean, on the basis of consultations and recommendations, especially from the Government of Quebec.

Can the minister tell us his intentions on a new military role for Saint-Jean and report on the outcome of the negotiations with the Government of Quebec?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, my colleague the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs, who is ill today, is looking into the alternate uses of the Collège militaire royal de Saint-Jean but I wish to reaffirm that the government in its budget of February 22 did announce that we will be moving to one college which will be located in Kingston, Ontario.

I made a statement yesterday in the House and the member's colleague from Charlesbourg replied on behalf of his party in terms of how we will make Kingston much more bilingual than it is already. I also announced that the commandant of the Collège militaire royal de Saint-Jean, General Emond, will start in July of this year as the new commandant of the Collège militaire royal located at Kingston to ensure that there is an equitable transition and to make sure that we do indeed continue the very excellent tradition of having a bilingual officer formation in the Canadian Armed Forces.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

With reference to the minister's statement yesterday, Mr. Speaker, he announced two plans: one to make the military college in Kingston bilingual and the other concerning curricula.

Can the minister tell us how much these measures will cost and can he confirm that these additional costs will cancel for all practical purposes the meagre amounts he intended to save, starting next year, by closing the military college in Saint-Jean?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, we have covered this a number of times in the House.

We expect the closure of Royal Roads Military College and the Collège militaire royal de Saint-Jean to accrue about $35 million annually to the federal treasury. There are one-time costs associated with the reformation in Kingston but that was all in the budget statement. The hon. member should read that.

Canada Pension Plan

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Human Resources Development.

Last week the minister's parliamentary secretary confirmed that Canada Pension Plan premiums will have to be increased from the current 5.2 per cent of earnings in order to cover payments to our aging population. In fact at the current rate in less than 25 years these premiums will eat up 10 per cent of every worker's paycheque.

Has the minister looked at this problem? What is he doing to keep premiums in check?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, I want to report to the hon. member that I have read the press reports.

It would be very important to refer him to a study or assessment that was undertaken by the Canadian Institute of Actuaries which noted that the financing of the Canada Pension Plan is on an actuarially sound basis. The formulas are there.

We all understand that as the population changes and as we go into the future where there will be a larger number of Canadians who are in retirement age, there will be some pressures on the Canada Pension Plan. That is the reason why my colleague, the Minister of Finance, announced in the budget that we will put forward a paper that will make some assessment and analysis of what those kinds of issues will be. We will have an opportunity for a public debate, assessment or dialogue on what some of the resolutions or responses should be.

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, we look forward to that public debate.

The surplus fund or contingency fund that the minister mentioned is presently invested in low interest provincial government bonds that subsidize the debt of provincial governments.

What is the government doing to ensure a better return on investment so that Canadians can count on having the pension they spend their whole lives contributing to?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, just to put this matter in its proper context, the managers of the fund have maintained throughout that this was not an unexpected development of the contingency fund, that it would have some pressures.

Certainly for the next three years it has full funding to cover any possible change or alteration in the situation of the fund. It is certainly actuarially sound and has sufficient contingency funds within it.

As the hon. member knows, according to legislation there must be changes in premium rates along the way. That is one reason why we have emphasized in the budget the importance of bringing down the cost of payroll tax, things like UI premiums and CPP premiums, so that we can maintain an active incentive for the private sector. That is one reason why the paper that the Minister of Finance announced will be a very important document for us to study.

Groundfish Licences

[Derek Wells, Liberal, South Shore, NS]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans.

In December 1992 the government announced a freeze on all inactive groundfish licences. As a result of this, in order to demonstrate their attachment to the fishery and to avoid losing their licences, fishermen felt compelled to increase their fishing effort. Last week, in announcing the Atlantic groundfish strategy, the minister promised that he would review this policy.

Will the minister advise the House as to what action has been taken on this issue?

[Brian Tobin, Liberal, Minister of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the member for the question. Indeed, he and virtually every other member of the Atlantic caucus raised the issue of frozen or inactive groundfish licences with me.

Following consultation with members of the Atlantic caucus and consultation with the Canadian Council of Fish Harvesters, I have come to a decision to put in place a new professional standard affecting the fishermen that will have the effect of thawing or releasing the freeze on the vast majority of those so-called frozen groundfish licences.

This decision will have the effect of contributing nothing to capacity as it affects only professional or bona fide fishermen. It will increase not one cent the cost of the Atlantic groundfish strategy, but it will do a great deal in the sense of fairness and, may I say, simple justice to restore the trust between fishermen, professional fishermen, bona fide fishermen and their government.

I thank the member and indeed all members of the Atlantic caucus for their active input in assisting me in making this decision. I think we sure tried.

Reproductive Technologies

[Pierrette Venne, Bloc, Saint-Hubert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Justice.

Last February 9, the minister stated that the recommendations in the Baird report on new reproductive technologies were being thoroughly reviewed, but the government has still not indicated what it intends to do with these recommendations. I want to point out that Canada is one of only a handful of industrialized countries with no legislation on reproductive technologies.

Does the minister agree on the need to act and regulate practices related to reproductive technologies, as is recommended in the Baird report, and will he undertake to table a bill before the House recesses for the summer in June?