Debates of May 2nd, 1994

Justice

[Val Meredith, Reform, Surrey—White Rock—South Langley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, it is also reported that since the death penalty was last used in 1962, and granted it is a figure used in 1962, the murder rate in Canada has more than doubled.

Is the minister going to attempt to convince Canadians there is no crisis in the justice system by using selective statistics? Or is the government prepared to introduce the necessary legislation to ensure the protection of society?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I have dealt with the point about the statistics. The more recent numbers over the last 16 years are far more reliable and meaningful. Let us put aside the question of numbers and get to the root of this issue.

I know the hon. member and I are of the same mind on one issue. That is that we have to improve the justice system in order to diminish crimes of serious violence. We have to do that by making the laws more effective and by attacking the underlying causes of crime.

I know as we introduce measures in the weeks ahead on those subjects in this House that we can count upon the hon. member and her party to support us in that cause.

Atlantic Fisheries

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Human Resources Development. Opposition is mounting to the adjustment strategy for Atlantic fishermen. According to a report in today's newspaper, a spokesperson for Newfoundland fishery workers has rejected the minister's proposal which would have each fishery worker sign an individual contract committing him or her to undergoing training or doing community work in exchange for benefits.

Will the minister concede that his proposal for individual contracts is being roundly criticized and has raised some legitimate concerns and consequently, is he prepared to negotiate collective agreements with the unions, as is being recommended to him by the spokesperson for the fishery workers?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, first let me point out that the comments or quotes used by the hon. member are not exactly what the head of the fishermen's union has said. He said they had some questions about the nature of it.

I would like to point out to the hon. member there are already a number of programs that we offer in which there is an agreement about participation by the person who takes a benefit from human resources. For example on the question of training, one is expected to have certain obligations on their side.

We are trying to apply a principle of mutual responsibility in this area. This subject was extensively discussed with members of the fishermen's union beginning last February. They had plenty of opportunity to conduct and to exchange points of view on this matter. In fact, during the course of those discussions there was no objection raised.

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, this morning's newspaper quotes the spokesperson as saying:

"We don't sign individual agreements; we sign collective agreements".

Surely the minister has read these comments.

Will the minister not agree that, after going over the heads of the provinces, it would, at the very least, be in his best interests to secure the co-operation of the unions representing fishery workers and will he undertake, therefore, to meet with the unions before proceeding to sign any individual contracts?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, let me first point out to the hon. member that this agreement we arrived at in the Atlantic fisheries did not go over the heads of the provinces. It was extensively discussed with each province involved and they were in agreement with the program. That is a fact.

Second, we discussed all these matters with the unions. Every union was involved in extensive consultations. When the minister of fisheries and I announced the program we said if there were any problems or concerns with the evolution of the agreement we would be glad to sit down with them and work those problems out.

Once again, the hon. member is trying to misstate exactly what went on. The fact is that this program is based on very

extensive and broad consultations with all the parties involved and the parties are very satisfied with the agreement.

General Agreement On Tariffs And Trade

[Charlie Penson, Reform, Peace River, AB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister.

The latest media report suggests that President Clinton has now publicly taken the side of the American farmers in the durum wheat dispute. Given that the United States' own international trade commission has scoffed at the unsupported allegations of unfair Canadian trade practices, will the Prime Minister personally contact President Clinton? Will he ask him to rise above domestic politics and take a leadership role in the interest of free trade?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

I did that a week ago with President Clinton, so the question is a bit late.

[Charlie Penson, Reform, Peace River, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I have a supplemental.

Can the Prime Minister outline for the House what steps he is going to personally take to assure that this trade war does not spread and threaten to become a full fledged trade war world-wide?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, we have done what is possible to be done.

The Minister of Agriculture has strongly made the point since January to his U.S. counterpart. The Minister for International Trade did that with his counterpart as well. I mentioned the matter two or three times to President Clinton. We hope that reason will prevail. We are selling wheat there because wheat produced by Canadian farmers in many instances is better.

Senator Bradley for example argued last week that it was not a good move for them to try to stop our durum wheat. He recognized that durum wheat produced in Canada is much better for making pasta. I was pleased to see an American senator use the argument I made a month ago.

Futuropolis

[Michel Daviault, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Industry.

The city of Montreal is planning a project named Futuropolis, which would be located in the technopark. The first phase of this project could require investments of up to $225 million within the next three years and attract some 200 companies involved with information highway technologies. The SODIM, the agency responsible for industrial development in Montreal, is committed to investing $200,000 in a feasibility study, provided the federal and Quebec do the same.

Does the Minister of Industry, responsible for the information highway, intend to give a favourable answer to the city of Montreal regarding the financing of a feasibility study on the Futuropolis project?

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, I would be glad to receive and study a proposal from the city of Montreal. Up to now, our commitment to finance the information highway has been limited to supporting the CANARIE project establishing networks across Canada to form the basis of the electronic highway.

Moreover, as the member knows, we are in the process of drafting regulations regarding the electronic highway.

[Michel Daviault, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the minister seems somewhat caught off guard by this project; he should make inquiries on Futuropolis, a project which could certainly allow Montreal and Quebec companies to take advantage of potential spin-offs and could even become a major element of the information highway development.

South Africa

[Sarkis Assadourian, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

Mr. Speaker, Martin Luther King, one of the most prominent figures of the century, once said: "I have a dream". Today that dream is directed to South Africa and they are free again.

My question is for the Minister of Foreign Affairs. Can the minister indicate to this House what, if any, programs he is prepared to implement to help South Africa on its path to democratic and economic reform in the years to come?

[André Ouellet, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I think that all members of this House will rejoice at the outcome of the very peaceful, well run election in South Africa.

Clearly we are very happy at having been associated with those who organized this election. Canada contributed to the preparations for the campaign. Number two at Elections Canada, Mr. Gould, was sent there and was part of the team which organized the elections. Certainly he has done a magnificent job along with the others who were responsible for this election.

I would like to say that any new Canadian initiatives will first have to be discussed with the new government. Certainly the Secretary of State for Africa upon returning Canada will convene a meeting of representatives of NGOs, associations, groups and individuals who would like to discuss what kind of aid Canada should be giving in the future to South Africa.

Following these consultations, certainly we will be in a position to make statements in this House in this regard.

Michael Lawrence Drake

[Werner Schmidt, Reform, Okanagan Centre, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Justice and concerns the extradition of Michael Lawrence Drake.

In March 1992, Drake was charged with molesting a two and a half-year old girl in Washington. While awaiting trial, Drake jumped bail and fled to Canada. In June 1992, an American court found Drake guilty of sexual assault in absentia. Last week, Drake was released on bail by Canadian officials pending an extradition hearing before the B.C. Supreme Court.

Why did Canadian officials release Drake into the community when he has already been convicted of sexual abuse of a child and when he has already proven his willingness to jump bail in the United States?

[The Speaker]

These questions that are posed many times are so specific that I do not know that all ministers or any ministers can have a complete grasp of specific cases. Perhaps there would be another venue where the member could get that information. However, I will permit the Minister of Justice to address himself to this case generally, if he has the information.

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, the issue is now one of extradition as the hon. member has said.

As such, it will first go to the court with respect to the issue of a warrant of committal and then eventually it will come to me, if that is the process followed. It is open to the person in question to apply to the Minister of Justice eventually no matter what the outcome of the court proceeding. If the person is committed then the minister can intervene under the statute.

I do not propose to comment on the substance or the merits of the extradition procedure. The member's question goes to the issue of detention and the person being in the community during the pending of the proceeding. I will be happy to make inquiries about what happened with respect to that matter and respond factually to the member when I get that information.

[Werner Schmidt, Reform, Okanagan Centre, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I really appreciate the forthrightness of the answer of the minister. It is indeed the matter of detaining an individual who was convicted this way and puts into jeopardy the young children in our communities.

I really urge the minister to answer this question. When will we stop hiding behind the law and put the protection of children first?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, that is indeed a much more general question.

Let me say that in all cases where people are accused of serious crime, including sexual interference with children, it is a question for the court in accordance with the bail provisions in the code whether such persons are released pending trial, and indeed following trial, pending sentence or an appeal from sentence.

All I can say to the hon. member is that I am confident that crown attorneys across the country exercise their judgment responsibly and that courts in each case consider the safety of the community in determining whether bail should be granted either in the event of trial or afterward.

Lobbying

[Richard Bélisle, Bloc, La Prairie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in its red book, the Liberal Party stated nice principles regarding the need to monitor the activities of lobbyists, in the best interest of the federal administration. Yet, six months after the election, the Liberals have become silent on this issue. Somehow, they seem to have distanced themselves from the policies which they were advocating before the election.

How can the Prime Minister explain his hesitation to table a bill on lobbyists, considering that his stated intentions during the election campaign seemed very clear on that issue?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, we have made a commitment and we intend to fulfill it. Right now, I am trying to find the right person for the job. I would like to know that person very well, so that he can participate in the drafting of the bill.

As I said, once we find that person, I will consult with the leader of the Opposition and the leader of the Reform Party before making the appointment, because it is only appropriate to inform them of that choice. I hope that we can proceed before the summer recess, which means very soon.

[Richard Bélisle, Bloc, La Prairie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, almost four months after the throne speech, the government has still not appointed an ethics counsellor, as promised by the Prime Minister during the election campaign.

When will the Prime Minister appoint the counsellor who of be responsible for this ethical issue and for the enforcing of the law?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, as far as I know, our mandate is for five years. We have fulfilled many commitments made in the red book. I hope the hon. member will take a look at page 111; he will be surprised. Indeed, we have fulfilled our promises regarding the helicopter contract, the infrastructure program, job creation for young

people, as well as other initiatives. We are not done yet with that particular commitment. Obviously, we cannot do everything within a four month session. However, things are going very well. That problem will be solved to everyone's satisfaction-I hope-before Parliament recesses for the summer, in exactly seven weeks.

Apple Growers

[Jim Hart, Reform, Okanagan—Similkameen—Merritt, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of National Revenue.

The minister has been asked several times by Canadian apple growers to immediately stop the dumping of U.S. apples into Canada. As usual the government talks a good game but also as usual nothing concrete comes of it. The best the government has come up with is for the growers to start anti-dumping action through the Canadian International Trade Tribunal which will take at least five months before damage is halted. These growers are being hurt by this dumping today.

Will the minister take action now to stop this destruction of the apple industry in Canada?