Debates of May 24th, 1994

Engineering

[Raymond Lavigne, Liberal, Verdun—Saint-Paul, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I wish to congratulate the team of engineers working for Les Ponts Jacques Cartier and Champlain Incorporée. On April 29 last, they were awarded the Prix Méritas 1994 by the Ordre des ingénieurs du Québec (Régionale Plein-Sud) for their work on the restoration of the Champlain bridge. Congratulations go out especially to CEO Benoît St-Laurent, to Senior Engineer Glen Carlin and to their team.

An important phase of the project involving the replacement of the Champlain bridge deck was the focal point of presentations by Mr. Carlin to the board of directors of the Permanent International Association of Road Congresses, to the annual congress of the Association québécois du transport et des routes, to the Transportation Association of Canada and to the McGill University and École Polytechnique chapters of the Canadian Society for Civil Engineering.

Young Offenders Act

[Patrick Gagnon, Liberal, Bonaventure—Îles-De-La-Madeleine, QC]

Mr. Speaker, today the South African Parliament opens. One of the first items on its agenda is the reform of the justice system to remove decades of prejudice and imbalance.

It is about time we did the same. Canada incarcerates offenders at a rate which is the third highest in the world. Canada incarcerates its aboriginal people at a rate which is three to four times higher than the population as a whole and at a rate which is twice the rate South Africa incarcerated blacks.

The right wing Reform Party is today asking Parliament to change the Young Offenders Act. The fact is 70 per cent of the offences committed by young offenders are only property offences but an amazing one-quarter of these youth who commit these property offences are sent to jail.

Unlike the right wingers opposite, our government is committed to putting justice back into the justice system.

International Day Of Families

[Beth Phinney, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Mr. Speaker, on May 15 we celebrated the International Day of Families.

In celebration of this day, the Prime Minister has asked Canadians to reflect on the important role the family plays in all our lives. In particular he recognized the importance of the family unit for children and young people.

I would like to build on the Prime Minister's words and ask Canadians to reflect on the significant role played by the senior members of our families, our parents. My father, who is with us in Ottawa this week, is an example of the generation that with hard work and dedication made Canada the great country it is today.

We talk of tapping our resources. Our greatest resource is the people who have made this country. These Canadians are truly the foundation of our society.

We must recognize that strong and healthy families create strong and productive societies. Our parents lived through different and sometimes challenging times. We would do well to learn from their experiences and to build upon them.

Foreign Affairs

[Maud Debien, Bloc, Laval East, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it is with some consternation that we helplessly stand by and watch the ongoing hostilities in Rwanda. The situation is all the more distressing in that according to some sources, this senseless conflict has already resulted in the loss of over half a million lives.

In the face of genocide on such a massive scale, the Bloc Quebecois urges the federal government to follow up as quickly as possible on the Security Council resolution to reinforce the United Nations mission in Rwanda.

In view of its reputation on the international stage, Canada cannot remain indifferent in the face of this slaughter. It must, therefore, intervene without delay.

Referendum '94

[Ted White, Reform, North Vancouver, BC]

Mr. Speaker, in the next few days every member of this House will be receiving a letter from my office containing information about Referendum `94 along with a copy of the householder presently being distributed to North Vancouver voters.

We will also begin distributing confidential voter PIN numbers within the next two weeks so members should alert their staff to watch for the arrival of the personalized envelope.

Other than some minor delays in updating the voters' list, all aspects of Referendum `94 are running on track. Our computerized help line is available 24 hours a day on area code 604-666-8378. I urge all members to call at their leisure to learn more about the referendum.

In case some members did not have their pens ready, that help line number for Referendum `94 on proposed changes to the Young Offenders Act is area code 604-666-8378.

Pride Canada

[Ronald J. Duhamel, Liberal, St. Boniface, MB]

Mr. Speaker, Pride Canada, the parent Resources Institute for Drug Education, celebrated its 10th anniversary at the University of Manitoba this last weekend.

It met with a variety of Manitobans from different backgrounds, actually with advocates who knew a lot about the drug problem in Canada, particularly among youth. They were international, national, local and adolescent experts. They recognize and reaffirm that the best way to get hold of the drug problem today is to make sure that it does not get started or, if it has started, to intercept it early.

I want to mention that this particular conference focused on prevention, treatment and law enforcement.

On behalf of all members I want to congratulate both organizers and participants who discussed one of the problems of our young people, a problem that deserves the attention of this Parliament.

Pharmaceuticals

[Bill Graham, Liberal, Rosedale, ON]

Mr. Speaker, Canada's drug regulation system exists to serve, protect and benefit all Canadians. We have a special responsibility toward those fighting life threatening diseases such as AIDS, Lou Gehrig's disease and Parkinson's disease.

Many Canadians and many members of my constituency need compassionate access to experimental drugs which might arrest the progress of their illnesses. For them the emergency drug release program just is not working. They do not have the luxury of waiting for further tests. Their life expectancy is short and what time they have left will be in pain and mental anguish. Yet manufacturers often deny access to experimental drugs and there is no way to review or challenge that decision.

Time is of the essence. We owe it to those who are suffering today to provide them with the greatest assurance that their voice will be heard and that their access to needed drugs will only be denied for objectively determined and scientifically conclusive reasons.

A review of the drug approval system is currently under way. Fairness in emergency drug access must be a part of that study.

Air Safety

[Audrey McLaughlin, NDP, Yukon, YT]

Mr. Speaker, rationalization, modernization, automation: all these buzzwords have been used to justify a situation which should have many Canadians, especially rural and northern Canadians, concerned about safe air travel.

The previous Canadian government undertook a plan of closures of air traffic control towers across northern Canada. Personnel was reduced, automated systems put in place, and in one case in Watson Lake, Yukon a system called Readac has been observed to record clear skies in a raging snowstorm.

The question of air safety is an extremely concerning issue. The Union of Canadian Transport Employees has raised its concern with members of Parliament about the possible elimination of emergency response services in category one to three airports.

I call on the government not to follow the previous government's path of playing with Canadian safety, to act in the interest of the safety of Canadians, and to look at the safety of these systems for the north.

Quebec's Right To Self-Determination

[Lucien Bouchard, Bloc, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, last week, the Prime Minister stated that since the Canadian Constitution is silent on the matter, the issue of Quebec's sovereignty is, and I quote: "purely hypothetical". This statement raised some doubts about the Prime Minister's position, that is to say, whether or not he recognizes Quebec's right to decide on its own sovereignty.

I want to ask the Prime Minister to remove these doubts as to his position on the subject and to tell this House whether or not he recognizes Quebec's right to self-determination.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, in 1980, we allowed a referendum to be held on the question of Quebec's separation. As I said several times last week, and I say it again today, only 5 per cent of Quebecers see the issue of separation and the Constitution as a priority. It is my duty to deal with the nation's real problems instead of spreading political and economic uncertainty in this country, and to make sure that Quebec remains in Canada. And I am convinced that Quebec will remain Canadian.

[Lucien Bouchard, Bloc, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, I asked a fundamental question which requires a clear answer. My question is whether the Prime Minister of Canada, of this country, respects Quebec democracy. Will the Prime Minister tell us clearly, and I will repeat my question, as head of State and Prime Minister, whether or not he recognizes Quebec's right to self-determination?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, this is a very broad question. It is more or less what the Leader of the Parti québécois said last week, when he commented on an international opinion according to which Quebec's borders would have to remain as they are. In the same opinion, it was also said that according to international law, Quebec could not separate from Canada without the consent of Canada, and that we would have to allow a vote to be held on the question.

That was done in 1980. I worked for the federal cause in a democratic vote, and Quebecers decided to remain in Canada. When I read current reports, I am convinced that this is not what Quebecers are concerned about, and that we are wasting our time. And as the Leader of the Opposition traipses around the world, he is creating problems for the Canadian economy, because talking about separation has a destabilizing effect. I am talking about a united and prosperous Canada that will go into the twenty-first century as a country that is a shining example to the world, and with all the provinces in Canada.

[Lucien Bouchard, Bloc, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, I want to ask the Prime Minister whether he realizes that his ambiguous remarks imply that he reserves the right not to recognize the desire for sovereignty democratically expressed by Quebecers?

How can he reconcile this ambiguous attitude with his own behaviour and that of his leader, Pierre Elliott Trudeau, in 1980, when they were both very much involved in the Quebec referendum campaign and they agreed to abide by the outcome of this democratic process? Why don't this party and this government follow the example of the Conservative Party and the New Democratic Party which adopted resolutions formally recognizing Quebec's right to self-determination?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I want a referendum with a very clear question, not playing on words to try to confuse people, not talking about sovereignty, not talking about sovereignty association, but talking about the real thing: the separation of Quebec from Canada.

I am a democrat but I am not going to spend my time debating that because I know clearly that the preoccupation of the people of Quebec is exactly the same as the preoccupation of all Canadians. They want jobs, job creation and growth. They want all parties to work toward that goal rather than have the Leader of the Opposition, who is supposed to protect the interests of Canada when abroad, creating uncertainty around the world. He is guilty.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Indian Affairs said that Quebec's natives could remain in Canada if the province decides to become a sovereign state. The Minister of Foreign Affairs then stated that the Minister of Indian Affairs should retract his comments, while the Prime Minister tried to avoid the issue and justify the statement made by his Minister of Indian Affairs.

My question is for the Prime Minister. Does the head of the Canadian government recognize the principle of territorial integrity for Quebec, whether that province chooses to remain part of Confederation or become independent? Does he recognize that principle?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I want to quote the opinion used by Mr. Parizeau last week, to the effect that Quebec natives must remain in Quebec and that Quebec must remain in Canada. Mr. Parizeau forgot to add that part. It is the international law for the time being. I want Quebec's territory to be fully protected, and the best way to ensure that is for the province to remain part of Canada, because the Canadian Constitution says that as long as Quebec remains part of Canada, no one can change its borders without its approval. Quebec's territory is protected by the Canadian Constitution. This is the best protection Quebecers can ever hope for.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, does the Prime Minister not realize that with this answer, which is sort of a veiled threat, he maintains the ambiguity resulting from the irresponsible statement made by his Minister of Indian Affairs? Can he tell us if he really knows the principle of international law which provides that when a state becomes sovereign, it does so with its whole territory? Does the Prime Minister know that principle?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the territory as a whole means all of Canada. That is what the opinion which Mr. Parizeau had in front of him the other day said but he forgot to mention that. This is our objective. And while we are discussing hypothetical issues, there is a lot of talk on international markets about the political instability in Canada and that has the effect of making interest rates go up, as the Minister of Finance can confirm.

It is because these people do not care about the economic interest of Quebecers. If they did, they would help us stabilize interest rates, create jobs and give Quebecers what they want. Quebecers do not want to talk about the Constitution: They want jobs and they want to be able to come home at the end of the day with their dignity intact.

Federalism

[Preston Manning, Reform, Calgary Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister.

The unwillingness of the federal government to so far vigorously promote its vision of federalism or to respond to various problems created by Quebec separatism is creating a national unity vacuum. That vacuum is now being partially filled by statements from provincial premiers, ad hoc pronouncements by ministers of the government, separatist rhetoric and media speculation.

Does the Prime Minister believe the time has now come for the federal government to fill the national unity vacuum with something more positive and concrete on the federalist side? And, if so, with what does he propose to fill that vacuum?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, during the campaign I went across the land and made a promise to all Canadian citizens that I wanted to become the Prime Minister of Canada and talk about job creation.

The leader of the Reform Party wants me to reopen the debate on the Constitution. I think it is completely wrong to do so. People are completely fed up with discussions on the Constitution. They want us to create jobs, and that is what we will do.

[Preston Manning, Reform, Calgary Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the Prime Minister for his reply. We have had the discussion before that federalism and the Constitution are not synonymous.

The vigorous promotion of a federalist vision of the future need not focus on constitutional arrangements. It could focus on

an economic vision or a social vision or a vision of Canada's international role. My point is that something visionary and futuristic has to be put forward to fill that vacuum.

Will the Prime Minister acknowledge that what he needs to do soon, what he needs to do now, is provide the country with a fresh, clear vision of what a 21st century federal state should be in order to deepen the commitment of all Canadians including Quebecers to Canadian federalism?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, now the leader of the Reform Party says there is no need to talk about the Constitution. Fine; I agree with him. That is why we are working on reforms to social programs at this time. We have tried to have fundamental reform and to make sure we approach the problems in a modern way by putting the emphasis on the right thing: job creation and dignity of work.

In terms of trying to make arrangements with the provinces, that is what the minister for federal-provincial relations is doing at this time. He is working to try to end the duplication of many programs. That is a practical way to have better federalism. We have been working that way since the beginning.

To come in with so-called new things and get people around the table like we have done over the last three years and talk Constitution all the time will lead to that. That is the speech this member of Parliament is making across the country today and he knows it makes no sense. The people do not want us to spend our time on constitutional matters. They all know that we live in the best country in the world and that we can solve our problems in a practical way. The big scheme à la Reform would never work.

[Preston Manning, Reform, Calgary Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, that is not exactly the kind of visionary statement I had in mind. It seems to me that behind the government's reply is also a fear that it is conceding legitimacy to the separatist cause by even acknowledging some of the problems which Quebec separatism creates. Yet by saying nothing on such problems the government is leaving the national stage open to one-sided separatist arguments and ad hoc federalist responses which confuse rather than clarify the issues.

My question is simple: Will the Prime Minister agree today to publish a list of the key issues which Quebec separatism raises from a federalist perspective and simply assure Canadians that his government is developing a principled response to those issues?