Debates of May 4th, 1994

Aboriginal Self-Government

[Garry Breitkreuz, Reform, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Mr. Speaker, it has been reported that many aboriginal people are afraid of self-government because they do not know if or how their individual rights will be protected.

With regard to the self-government agreement now being negotiated in Manitoba, can the minister explain if and how these individual rights will be protected and how aboriginal leaders will be held accountable by the people they purport to represent?

[Ron Irwin, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member suggests that the aboriginal people are not ready for self-government. Might I remind the hon. member that they have been held under the Indian Act in a situation of paternalism and assimilation since 1850, acts that we passed here in Canada.

It is our doing, incorrectly, in bringing in the Indian Act that has caused this paternalism and this fear. We are trying to break that because we have created it. In the four years that I hope we are here and I am in this ministry that Indian Act that was passed is going to be gone.

Mil Davie Shipyard

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Beauport—Montmorency—Orléans, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Transport.

Yesterday, the Quebec Minister of Industry and Commerce had a secret meeting with the federal ministers of Industry and Transport. According to the daily Le Droit , the review of drug patent legislation, the high-speed train issue and the construction of the Magdalen Islands ferry were on the agenda.

Can the Minister of Transport tell us if, during that meeting, he gave a positive reply to the Quebec Minister of Industry regarding the awarding to MIL Davie of the contract for the construction of the Magdalen Islands ferry and the multipurpose smart ship?

[Douglas Young, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, during the meeting with the Quebec Minister of Industry, we discussed of course the need to provide an adequate ship for the transport of people, goods, trucks and cars from Prince Edward Island to the Magdalen Islands. We informed the Quebec Minister of Industry that the government of Canada intends to ensure the safety of people making that trip, and we hope to soon be able to make a decision, in co-operation with the Quebec government, as to how we can best help these people who urgently need adequate and safe services.

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Beauport—Montmorency—Orléans, QC]

Mr. Speaker, this answer is exactly the one I was given last January 18.

Now that the Minister of Transport is in possession of MIL Davie's business plan, as the Minister of Industry said Monday in this House, will he recognize that the two contracts for the "smart ship" and the ferry are essential to MIL Davie's survival, and when can we hope to get an answer regarding these two issues?

[Douglas Young, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, first, the hon. member will certainly realize that the Department of Transport is not responsible for the smart ship issue. However, those who are familiar with MIL Davie's history understand how important that industry is for workers.

As regards the ferry between Prince Edward Island and the Magdalen Islands, the priority for the Department of Transport and the government of Canada is to ensure the safety of Magdalen Islanders and others who use the ferry.

Obviously, the decision as to whether MIL Davie's recovery plan will work must be made by the Quebec government and the company itself, which is trying its best to solve its problems. There is no doubt that discussions will continue. I want to assure the hon. member that the issue of safety for people who currently travel on a ship which is causing enormous problems, the Lucy Maud Montgomery , must be settled and this is something we want to do as quickly as possible. The link with the future of MIL Davie makes things more complicated, but we try to be as understanding as possible.

Rwanda

[Charles Caccia, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Mr. Speaker, as you know it is increasingly difficult to remain indifferent to the situation in Rwanda. Yesterday the UN Secretary-General, Boutros Boutros-Ghali, asked the Security Council to reconsider its decision to reduce UN forces in Rwanda.

My question which follows that of the hon. member for Rosedale and other interested members in this House is this: Is the minister willing to support the Secretary-General, take the lead of the Security Council and ensure an adequate world response to this immense tragedy?

[André Ouellet, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for his question. I want to assure him that Canada is certainly actively pursuing various avenues with other members of the UN to try to help the people in Rwanda.

Brigadier General Dallaire, a Canadian, is in charge of the UN forces there. He is certainly pursuing all avenues to try to bring the factions to their senses and to stop them killing each other.

We do not belong to the security council. Therefore it would be difficult for us to lead the discussion there. I take the recommendation of the member in good spirit. Certainly Canada, through some members of the security council, could pursue initiatives to try to lead to a greater presence of UN forces there.

More important, when the factions have stopped this terrible slaughter, Canada will be ready to move in with humanitarian assistance to help rebuild that country.

National Parole Board

[Myron Thompson, Reform, Wild Rose, AB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Solicitor General.

Yesterday the chairman of the National Parole Board confirmed that the vice-chairman of the board's prairie region was involved in five decisions to release convicts who, once released, went on to murder seven people.

Given the minister's comments that his first priority is to achieve safe homes and safe streets for Canadians, could he please tell Canadians what action he is to take in this regard?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons and Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, the information in question is something that concerns me greatly.

I am proceeding to get all the facts surrounding the individual's participation in these decisions. Once I have these facts I will be discussing the matter further with cabinet colleagues.

I want to add, as I have informed members of the House, that it is my intention on behalf of the government to bring forward before too long legislation to create an accountability system for members of the parole board.

[Myron Thompson, Reform, Wild Rose, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to hear that. While we are waiting for that system of accountability, while we are waiting for this amendment, and since we obviously have parole board members presently releasing dangerous offenders into the community, is the minister prepared to put a moratorium on paroling dangerous offenders before other innocent victims die?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons and Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, the cases the hon. member has been referring to took place, if I am not mistaken, three to five years ago. I am very concerned about these cases. I want to work and I am working to try to ensure that these kinds of cases are not repeated.

The parole board is an independent judicial tribunal, something akin to a court, operating under legislation passed by the House. I want to see what authority I have to make sure that the parole board functions properly.

However I think the hon. member should rethink his suggestion because it implies a course of action that may impede the protection of the public in the long run rather than help it.

Intergovernmental Affairs

[Jean Landry, Bloc, Lotbinière, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs. The October 26, 1992 referendum was held in Quebec according to the Quebec legislation on referendums and paid for solely by the Quebec government. However, through its taxes, Quebec paid for part of the federal government's expenses, and the previous government had promised to reimburse this sum which amounts to $26 million.

My question is this: In all fairness for Quebec, has the minister decided to grant this request which has been presented several times to the federal government, and more precisely in this House, on January 28 last?

[Marcel Massé, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada]

Mr. Speaker, as far as I know, the previous government had not come to a final decision regarding the reimbursement of referendum expenses incurred in Quebec, and neither have we.

Canada Pension Plan

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Human Resources Development.

Last week, in response to a question on the future viability of the Canada Pension Plan, the minister stated: "It is certainly actuarially sound and has sufficient contingency funds within it". Yet according to a recent OECD study on public pension plans we in Canada would have to dramatically increase contributions or increase the pensionable age by 16 years to age 81 to make our plan actuarially sound.

Could the minister explain the huge discrepancy between his statement and the OECD report?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, when I made the statement last week we were talking about a report that pertained to the immediate situation of the fund which is actuarially sound. It is in full reserve and there is no contemplated need for major changes.

The OECD study he refers to is one that projects a substantial change in the population of Canada over the next 20 years when there will be a much larger proportion of people at retirement age. It is for that reason the Minister of Finance announced in his budget that we would be establishing a major white paper, green paper or task force to look at a number of options that have to be considered in relation to those changes in population.

I hope the hon. member will have something constructive to offer when that paper is put forward.

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, there are two reports now including the one he referred to last week that suggest we need big changes in the Canada pension plan if it is to remain solvent.

Certainly we will be participating in any discussions on the future solvency of that plan and we would like to offer something.

I would ask the minister to make it clear, first of all, that we have a problem today with that. I would encourage him and his government to show some leadership by bringing forward a discussion on this matter as soon as possible so that Canadians could be assured something is being done about the plan and their future pensions will be safe.

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to repeat if I might that in the budget of last February the Minister of Finance clearly stated that we saw a need to look at the whole question of security in retirement programs for Canadians because of changes taking place in population and other factors.

The Department of Finance, the Department of Health, and my department are presently preparing the kinds of facts and figures so that Canadians can have an honest, rational and open debate.

We would hope to table it in the fall, as soon as it is ready. At that point in time I would welcome the participation of the hon. member and all other members of the House because I think it is an important issue.

It is important for the hon. member to recognize and not to create any false sense that the system as it is presently constructed is under any kind of threat. It is a very sound system but we must prepare for the future.

Intergovernmental Affairs

[Martin Cauchon, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs. Lately, some people have delighted in saying that relations between the provinces and the federal government, and specifically between Quebec and Ottawa, have broken down completely.

Can the minister advise us today on the status of federal-provincial relations and tell us what steps he intends to take to co-operate with the provinces and to reassure Quebecers that federalism is indeed alive and well?

[Marcel Massé, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for his question because it gives me an opportunity to put a number of issues discussed over the past few weeks into perspective. Within a federation, it is natural for conflicts to arise between the federal government and the provinces. I feel that this government has been relatively successful in recent months at resolving conflicts.

For example, not only do we have the infrastructure program which has been a success across the country, and particularly in Quebec, but we also have a number of agreements such as the St. Lawrence action plan which provided an additional $191 million to the $526 million infrastructure program. This extra money will be spent in Quebec. We have also negotiated agreements on the Sainte-Marguerite River, the Montreal Botanical Garden and, most important, on equalization payments.

Aids Virus In Prisons

[Réal Ménard, Bloc, Hochelaga—Maisonneuve, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Solicitor General, and it is not a planted question. In June 1992, the Solicitor General mandated a committee of experts to make recommendations on preventing the spread of the AIDS virus in prisons. The main conclusion of the report tabled a few days ago is that the most important thing to protect inmates' health is a vigorous AIDS information campaign.

Does the Solicitor General share this conclusion and what directives does he intend to issue and what measures does he intend to take to apply them in the actual prison environment?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons and Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, a few weeks ago, as the hon. member said, the expert committee on AIDS in prisons tabled its final report. At that time Correctional Service Canada published a detailed response. I support the conclusions in that response which among other things includes a vigorous program of information.

[Réal Ménard, Bloc, Hochelaga—Maisonneuve, QC]

Mr. Speaker, since January 1992, condoms, rubber dams and lubricant have been made available to prisoners. According to the committee, the next step is to provide bleach and instructions for cleaning syringes used in tattooing.

Does the minister share this forward looking approach to prevention in a prison setting?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons and Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, as I have said, I support the response of Correctional Service Canada which includes a pilot project in that direction.

There are certain parts of the committee report which Correctional Service has not accepted and I think for good reason. This is all set out in detail in the response of Correctional Service which, as I have said, the Minister of Health and I support.

Gun Control

[Lee Morrison, Reform, Swift Current—Maple Creek—Assiniboia, SK]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Justice who has been musing about banning private ownership of handguns.

The 1,054,000 registered handguns in the country have a value of at least $300 million. Is the hon. minister considering compensation, or will big brother be going door to door and confiscating what is now legally owned property of Canadian citizens?