Mr. Speaker, I guess I have not put enough emphasis on government participation for the hon. member. I was not saying that the government should walk away and not assist businesses in the process of conversion. We never have. I was suggesting that the balance should be one where we do not ignore other success stories in the conversion process.
In other words, as a government we should not think we are the only ones who have the solution. We will aid. We will support. We must bring into the discussion people who have already had success in the conversion exercise.
The member is not opposed to that. My point is that we have to start. We have to make sure that we do not create a sense of false hope. In other words we are not running away. However it must be much more of a joint venture with government giving advice, government giving some form of assistance where possible, maybe not in grants but through some loan guarantees and bringing in other experts who have achieved success. That is the point I was trying to make to the hon. member.