House of Commons Hansard #91 of the 35th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was yukon.

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Yukon First Nations Land Claims Settlement ActGovernment Orders

7:15 p.m.

Liberal

Elijah Harper Liberal Churchill, MB

Mr. Speaker, it gives me great honour to participate in this debate and also to recognize a process which should have been resolved many, many years ago. It has taken a long time to get the recognition we deserve as First Nations in this country we call Canada, which happens to be an Indian word. I do not know if Reform members know what that means. Certainly they need to understand the real history of the country which today we call Canada. If it was not for the kindness and the generosity of the First Nations and its people this rich country would not benefit anybody.

I know we are talking about the land claims settlement agreement and also self-government but often times we combine the two because that is our philosophy, our way of thinking. We cannot isolate the land from day-to-day life. Our existence depends on the land and it is very important that people understand that.

If I go back to the time of the first European contact the governments that came to this country were met by First Nations on the shores of the St. Lawrence River or on the west coast of British Columbia or on Hudson Bay and Winnipeg. The First Nations met these people and that relationship has never been concluded, has never been finalized. Certainly across the country there have been many agreements and treaties made with First Nations and that process has extended to areas where treaties have not been made such as the Northwest Territories and Yukon.

I always say that the first order of business has never been concluded with the first people, the first inhabitants, the First Nations.

The treaty making process is about establishing relationships. When the crown or the Queen's representatives came to this land they made treaties with the First Nations. What does it mean when you make treaties or agreements with the First Nations? It means that we entered into agreements. We established a relationship and these treaties and the modern day agreements are those agreements.

Treaties that were signed many years ago and today are about establishing relationships, how we are going to live with each other. Certainly the treaties that we signed in western Canada hundreds of years ago are still an ongoing process. They have not come to an end. Governments still have outstanding promises, treaty promises. We still have outstanding treaty land entitlements. We still want to resolve some of the issues like education that were promised to the Indian people.

Those things are ongoing. The treaties were signed years ago but it is an ongoing process because it is about establishing a relationship.

As I have said many times, we have never surrendered or extinguished the right to govern ourselves. As a matter of fact when the treaties were entered into, the Queen's representative, the crown, never questioned the authority and the jurisdictions of the First Nations. They respected it.

That is the fundamental relationship that the First Nations have with the Government of Canada, the treaty relationship. No other group of Canadian people have that relationship. It is a special relationship that we hold sacred and we bind the government to honour those commitments. Our elders tell us those are sacred agreements.

It is not something that was given to us. Our way of thinking, our philosophy, is to share what we have. Certainly in terms of land, our philosophy is that we cannot own it but rather we could only share it with the newcomers to this country.

There was conflict over the different value systems that the Europeans, when they came to this land, wanted to impose. They had a different value system such as land tenure which was quite foreign to us. Somehow they conferred that title on to us and

later negotiated it back so that they somehow would justify their occupation of this country.

If one looks at the Indian philosophy, our way of thinking, governments did not need to do that because our way of thinking is to share what we have, including the land and resources that we signed in our treaties, including in the Northwest Territories and today in the Yukon settlement.

We have been very patient, very generous, very kind and we have never rejected anyone who came to this country. As a matter of fact, we extended our hand to the rest of the world for the kind of country this can be, this great country that we call Canada today.

Sometimes I cannot fathom the thinking of the Reform Party in which it questions the land that is being claimed and settled with the aboriginal people. Our people never questioned their generosity to the rest of the people. We never questioned that because that is our way to extend a hand, to share what we have. That is our greatest strength as First Nations people.

What is happening today, what we are trying to retain are parts of the country, parts of our territory, so that we can continue to live traditionally and with the rest of society. If one looks at the relationship from day one and if one looks at the European people who came into this country, they were out to look for treasures, to conquer the world, to seek the riches of the world.

They came to this land and found the First Nations people who were very kind and generous here. They never knew the concept of land tenure, to own the land. The concept is as foreign as owning the air. That is how foreign that concept was to our elders at the time when we signed the treaties.

Treaties are about establishing relationships so that we would live with each other, so that we would live side by side with each other, so that we would honour each other, so that we would respect each other and not to dominate each other such as the case has been over the past hundreds of years.

Many of the people who were signing treaties went back and started implementing a policy of the government which totally dominates us today as First Nations people. They passed an Indian Act which has been in place for a hundred years. It affects us on a daily basis as to whom we are today. It defines us as Indians. It even contributes to the conflict and chaos in our communities.

With the new Bill C-31 we have many categories of Indian people. We have status people. We have non-status people. We have treaty Indians. We have Bill C-31 Indians. We have band Indians. Governments have tried to define us, but we have always said that we are First Nations. The definition of membership should belong to the First Nations government. It should define who are its members.

People often wonder why we are not improving our lives in the communities or the conditions we live in. We still have poor housing conditions. We have no running water. We have no electricity. Infrastructure is terrible. If we look at the statistics in terms of illnesses and hospital use by First Nations people, they are high. The suicide rate would be four times as high, four times the national average. Our children drop out of high school at an early age. Oftentimes they are symptoms of the social conditions we live in, symptoms of the lack of control in our communities.

We are not asking the government to give us something. We are asking the government to share what we have, to respect our governments, to respect our ability to control our lives and to respect that we are able to determine our own future. This is not about living in a different world because Canada belongs to everybody. To the aboriginal people it is not about separating. There is no threat of separation in the country.

Yukon First Nations Land Claims Settlement ActGovernment Orders

7:30 p.m.

Some hon. members

Hear, hear.

Yukon First Nations Land Claims Settlement ActGovernment Orders

June 22nd, 1994 / 7:30 p.m.

Liberal

Elijah Harper Liberal Churchill, MB

We are not asking for land. Unlike the Bloc our intention is not to separate. Our intention is to keep the country together, to live with each other.

I just want to get back to the original terms of our relationship. It is important to understand why we live in the conditions on our reserves. The first and most destructive piece of legislation that has kept us under wraps has been the Indian Act. I have always thought the Indian Act would have established the relationship between the governments of Canada and the First Nations, not one that totally binds us or totally shackles us on a daily basis. By trying to do away with the Indian Act the government can address the issue. At least it will put the control of our lives and our destinies in the hands of the First Nations. We have never signed away or bargained away that right.

Governments outlawed many of our ceremonies. They basically outlawed our Indian spirituality. Indian spirituality is a way of life for us. Governments outlawed the dances, the ceremonies and the potlatch. Basically they outlawed how we manifested our relationship with the Creator. It was against the law to do that.

Indian spirituality is a way of life. In order to establish a relationship with oneself, with one's family and with the community one needs to have that spirituality in oneself to establish that relationship, to be able to establish the relationship with other people who have come to this country of Canada, even to establish the relationship with the environment, with all living things, with the land, the air, the water, all the trees and all the

animals. We need to have that. In order to be able to function as a society, able to function as a government we need to have that.

In order to have any kind of sense of moral values you need to have respect that there is another way of doing things, not just your own way. People need to recognize that. When they outlawed all these things, the classic example of how we were beaten, even for speaking our language, was done through the educational system. People were strapped for speaking their language when we went to residential school.

Many people can talk to you about the instruments that the governments used to assimilate us, to integrate us. Even cultural genocide is written in black and white as to the intentions of the government. Certainly when they outlawed the spiritual aspect of our people they destroyed many people. We might as well have existed with no heart and no soul. We might as well have been just basically robots running around without any kind of conscience or any kind of moral values.

Let me tell you that aspect has never been taken away. It has been our strength because today we have survived many years of assimilation and persevered despite government policies.

I said in my statement yesterday about Aboriginal Solidarity Day that we are a great nation, that we are a great people, that greatness is not measured by material wealth, but is measured by how much we are able to give and how much we are able to share.

That has been demonstrated by the First Nations to the rest of the world by what kind of people we are today. That as I said has been our greatest strength and has made us endure all kinds of things that have been thrown in our way. Today we are resolving a small portion of the country in which many of the First Nations live in the territory of Yukon in order to settle their land claims.

If we look at the tremendous contributions that the aboriginal people have made, this is a very small aspect of what they are getting. If we look at all the Indians, First Nations across the country, when they signed the treaties and shared the land and the resources, how much can we calculate in terms of dollars? How much can we calculate in terms of dollars has that been to the cost of the aboriginal people?

It probably runs into billions, maybe trillions of dollars, that the First Nations have shared so that other people can live in this country.

When you look in the communities we live in third world conditions. Many of the necessities of the south in our communities in the north are considered luxuries. We have no plumbing on our reserves and no roads. We have to fly in. Unemployment is high.

In the meantime the people in southern Canada benefit from the lands and resources we shared with the governments.

Even if we get a small percentage, let us say 5 per cent of the land resources alone, there is enough for the government to be able to honour its commitment to the First Nations in this country.

Canadian people question the government about their tax dollars but it does not have to necessarily get the money from the ordinary taxpayer to pay for its treaty obligations. I know we have to maintain the social programs such as medicare and family allowance, old age pensions. Those dollars generated from the income tax of ordinary Canadians or other means, the government does not necessarily use that money to pay for its treaty obligations.

It is the land and resources which we shared that we expect the government to get the revenues generated. There is enough for it to give to the First Nations in order to honour its treaty commitments and treaty promises. I do not know how much that runs into. I think it runs into billions of dollars.

I expect governments to recognize the First Nations as equals. That we will always have the ability to enter into treaties. We did not subject ourselves to the governments. That is one thing the Reform Party should understand. We have never been equals at the bargaining table.

As I said there is no threat in that because our guarantee is to share the land resources. I might as well say our constitution is written in our hearts and enables us to share what we have.

Often times I find that people and governments want certainty to the land. I know how business operates. I know the realities of business that need to be developed and companies would want to have a certainty in terms of ownership of land. I believe there is another way to deal with those things but it is not something that is part of the bill. I do have other opinions and other ways of dealing with that. At some point maybe later on we can talk about it.

Yukon First Nations Land Claims Settlement ActGovernment Orders

7:40 p.m.

Liberal

Alfonso Gagliano Liberal Saint-Léonard, QC

Mr. Speaker, on a point of order, I regret having to interrupt the hon. member's speech. I think you might find unanimous consent that he could share his remaining time with the member for Yukon.

Yukon First Nations Land Claims Settlement ActGovernment Orders

7:45 p.m.

Bloc

Gilles Duceppe Bloc Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC

Mr. Speaker, we agreed with members of the Liberal Party and the New Democratic Party to vote on this evening's adjournment motion first and then the Bloc Quebecois will give its 20 minutes to the leader of the NDP. If this is indeed the agreement we made, I would like the government House leader's assistant to confirm it.

Yukon First Nations Land Claims Settlement ActGovernment Orders

7:45 p.m.

Liberal

Peter Milliken Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON

Mr. Speaker, I think there is unanimous agreement in the House that when the House adjourns this day after completion of the business of the House it would be deemed to be adjourned as of tomorrow at the normal hour of adjournment. In other words, for all purposes June 23 in the standing orders would be counted as June 22 in the standing orders and accordingly when the House adjourns tonight it will be adjourned until September 19. If there is that understanding I think we can proceed as indicated.

Yukon First Nations Land Claims Settlement ActGovernment Orders

7:45 p.m.

Reform

Elwin Hermanson Reform Kindersley—Lloydminster, SK

Mr. Speaker, in negotiations with the other parties in the House we had come to an understanding that in spite of the fact that closure had been invoked on this bill yesterday we would have 20 minutes to speak to both bills, C-34 and C-33.

If in fact we do not have 20 minutes to speak to this bill then we will deny unanimous consent to adjourn today.

Yukon First Nations Land Claims Settlement ActGovernment Orders

7:45 p.m.

Bloc

Gilles Duceppe Bloc Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC

Mr. Speaker, my understanding is indeed that the Reform Party will have 20 minutes. I think that there is unanimous consent on both sides of the House to give them 20 minutes, just as there is to give the leader of the NDP 20 minutes.

Yukon First Nations Land Claims Settlement ActGovernment Orders

7:45 p.m.

Reform

Elwin Hermanson Reform Kindersley—Lloydminster, SK

Mr. Speaker, I have a little problem with the math because the first hon. member who spoke has taken almost 40 minutes. If we give another hon. member 20 minutes of course then the debate would suspend. Therefore we cannot give unanimous consent unless we are assured by all members of this House that we will have the 20 minutes that were agreed to.

Yukon First Nations Land Claims Settlement ActGovernment Orders

7:45 p.m.

Liberal

Peter Milliken Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON

Mr. Speaker, I think the agreement is that the House will adjourn tonight and the standing order will be treated as though it were adjourning on June 23, that there will be 20 minutes allotted to the hon. member for Yukon, 20 minutes allotted to one of the members of the Reform Party before the question is put, pursuant to the special order adopted yesterday. I think that would solve the problem.

I understand also that the hon. member for Churchill will need another two minutes to complete his remarks. I think that might be included in the whole arrangement if that is satisfactory to all hon. members. If so I think we might proceed on that understanding.

Yukon First Nations Land Claims Settlement ActGovernment Orders

7:45 p.m.

Reform

Elwin Hermanson Reform Kindersley—Lloydminster, SK

Mr. Speaker, I would like a ruling from the Chair that this is in fact possible under the closure motion that has been put forward and the time allocation of one hour, that this House can assure that Reform MPs will have either one member for 20 minutes or two members for 10 minutes to speak to Bill C-33.

Yukon First Nations Land Claims Settlement ActGovernment Orders

7:45 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Kilger)

Just so I understand as clearly as everyone else here, this agreement would only apply to the legislation that we are presently debating, that is C-33, and no other legislation afterwards. This is just applicable to C-33. Is that a clear understanding?

Yukon First Nations Land Claims Settlement ActGovernment Orders

7:45 p.m.

Reform

Elwin Hermanson Reform Kindersley—Lloydminster, SK

Mr. Speaker, we had agreement that all parties would have 20 minutes to speak to Bills C-33 and C-34. We are asking for that agreement to be kept.

Yukon First Nations Land Claims Settlement ActGovernment Orders

7:45 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Kilger)

Let me continue these negotiations. I am not trying to drag things out. Bill C-34 has passed so this unanimous consent being sought is on C-33 only. Agreed?

Yukon First Nations Land Claims Settlement ActGovernment Orders

7:45 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

Yukon First Nations Land Claims Settlement ActGovernment Orders

7:45 p.m.

An hon. member

Adjournment of the House.

Yukon First Nations Land Claims Settlement ActGovernment Orders

7:45 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Kilger)

I understand that portion.

Maybe it is not my role, but as attentive as we all were to the intervention by the hon. member for Churchill, if the hon. member for Churchill had five minutes to conclude his remarks then I would recognize someone from the Official Opposition, from the Bloc Quebecois for 20 minutes?

Yukon First Nations Land Claims Settlement ActGovernment Orders

7:50 p.m.

Some hon. members

No.

Yukon First Nations Land Claims Settlement ActGovernment Orders

7:50 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Kilger)

Let me start over. The member for Churchill would have five minutes.

Yukon First Nations Land Claims Settlement ActGovernment Orders

7:50 p.m.

Some hon. members

No.

Yukon First Nations Land Claims Settlement ActGovernment Orders

7:50 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Kilger)

Two minutes.

Yukon First Nations Land Claims Settlement ActGovernment Orders

7:50 p.m.

Some hon. members

No.

Yukon First Nations Land Claims Settlement ActGovernment Orders

7:50 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Kilger)

I tried. The hon. member for Yukon would have 20 minutes and an hon. member from the Reform Party would have 20 minutes.

Yukon First Nations Land Claims Settlement ActGovernment Orders

7:50 p.m.

Some hon. members

Yes.

Yukon First Nations Land Claims Settlement ActGovernment Orders

7:50 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Kilger)

Or they could split the time into two 10 minutes and then I can call the question. Is there unanimous consent?