I forgot your first question. I do not believe that is what the minister means by changing the onus for 15 to 17-year olds to be tried in adult court. He said they should be tried in adult court and it should be shown why they should not be tried in adult court. It is clear they will be tried for very violent crimes in adult court and the onus is on them to prove that they should not be tried in this court. I think that is very appropriate.
Second, you talked about lowering the age from 12. I made it quite clear that I do not believe we can put 12-year olds and under 12-year olds in the same category. I do not believe that the abstract concepts of crime and punishment really apply to young people. I say this from experience, both as a parent and as a practitioner who had lots of young people in my practice.
We need to help these young people by prevention, by remedial help and by helping their parents with the resources they need to help bring their children into line. However we should not be throwing these children in jail at all.