Debates of Sept. 22nd, 1994

Immigration

[Sergio Marchi, Liberal, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, through you, the hon. member is as convoluted as his party's policy on this. He moves from Charter of Rights and Freedoms to the IRB to immigration policy. He is changing his adjectives.

This minister has not abdicated policy for the IRB. What I have said time in and time out is that this minister and this government will not get involved in the day to day adjudication of cases before the Immigration and Refugee Board regardless of how many times its critics get up and give us the blood and the guts and the gore of individual cases. We are responsible for the general policy framework under which the IRB operates.

Second, you want a tangible way as to how to get at the root problem.

Gun Control

[Pierrette Venne, Bloc, Saint-Hubert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Justice.

Lobbies of gun owners and manufacturers have stepped up their pressure on the government to go back on its election promise regarding firearms. Just today, these lobbies are holding a major demonstration on the Hill in order to sway the minister.

Will the minister abide by the commitment made in the red book and resist pressure from gun owners and manufacturers, and undertake unequivocally not to water down his party's promise to tighten up control of the circulation of handguns and semi-automatic weapons?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, last May the Prime Minister asked me to prepare proposals for the fall with a view to strengthening firearms legislation, and I will do so.

I spent most of the summer consulting Canadians throughout the country and I listened to what they had to say. We are currently examining a full range of possibilities and I will be tabling a bill in the House within a few months, probably in November. Our primary goal at all times will be the safety of Canadian citizens. We are, I believe, at the point where we must decide what kind of country we want to live in.

We will have substantial changes in gun control for the safety of Canada in the months ahead. Make no mistake about that. In the preparation of that package we are taking into account the legitimate interests of firearms owners. I spoke this afternoon to the crowd gathered on the Hill and I emphasized-

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

-that in complying with the Prime Minister's request of me I would assemble proposals that both take their legitimate interests into account and serve the interests of all Canadians who want a safe society.

[Pierrette Venne, Bloc, Saint-Hubert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, if the Minister of Justice still recognizes the need to strengthen controls on the circulation and possession of firearms, why does he not tell us today, right now, how he intends to do so, instead of

making us wait, diverting our attention and letting us think that he is faltering?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, the process in which I am engaged has taken me across the country to speak to people interested in this subject. I have consulted with my colleagues in the Liberal caucus who come from every province and territory of the country.

Rather than tell the House today what it is that is going to be done, we are developing proposals through that consultation and we are being respectful of the legitimate interests of firearms owners.

I can tell the hon. member, as I emphasize on each occasion when I am given the opportunity to do so, that our fundamental objective is a safer society, that we are going to deal with illegal firearms in this country, that we are going to toughen the criminal law in its response to those who use firearms in the commission of offences, and we are going to deal with the regulation of firearms in the hands of lawful owners in a manner consistent with safety in our society.

[Jack Ramsay, Reform, Crowfoot, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I can see clearly from the last exchange that the law-abiding gun owners from Quebec out here on the lawn do not have a representative here in the Bloc.

[The Speaker]

This is a very far reaching Question Period we are into. I know the hon. member is going to put his question forthwith.

[Jack Ramsay, Reform, Crowfoot, AB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the justice minister as well. In his 1993 report, the Auditor General indicated the previous government's Bill C-17 was not formulated upon a sound statistical basis and that the government proceeded for reasons of public policy.

I ask the Minister of Justice this. Will his proposed amendment to the gun control legislation be based upon statistical information that clearly demonstrates whether or not the current controls are meeting their objectives which is to reduce the criminal use of firearms in society or are we again proceeding simply for the purposes of public policy?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, the Department of Justice has indeed commissioned studies. It has received factual research information about the situation with firearms in this country.

We have read with interest some research information released yesterday by the Toronto police about the incidence of the use of handguns in the commission of crime in that city. We read the report recently about the defects in the present registration system for restricted firearms and the need to improve the registration system.

We have read studies about the need for change in the criminal law to send the message that if one uses a firearm in the commission of an offence, one will get a stern response from the justice system.

Our proposals will be based upon fact. They are going to be based upon research. But they are going to be based more than anything else upon the policy of this government which is to take steps that ensure the safety of our society.

[Jack Ramsay, Reform, Crowfoot, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the minister for that response. I am sure that he will submit those reports to the members of the standing committee on justice.

My supplemental is this. In describing Canada's current gun control legislation, the courts of Canada have used the terms such as vague, uncertain, invalid, inconsistent with the charter, convoluted, fictitious and twice removed from reality.

I ask the minister this. Will he put aside any proposed legislation and immediately undertake a complete re-evaluation of the current legislation to ensure it is clear, consistent and of direct effect upon the criminal element to provide the protection needed by our society?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, that is exactly the exercise in which we are now engaged.

Tainted Blood

[Pauline Picard, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Health.

While Canadians are, with good reason, asking themselves serious questions about the blood supply system, the minister told the Canadian press that the reason Canadian standards are not as stringent as those in effect in the U.S. is that Canadian donors are volunteers.

How can the minister make such irresponsible comments when the tainted blood scandal of the early 1980s occurred under the volunteer donor system?

[Diane Marleau, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, I am always happy to clarify the hon member's question and to inform all Canadians that our regulatory system is different. The reason it is different is that it is based on a different philosophy, on a volunteer donor system instead of a paid donor system.

This does not mean that one system is better than the other. In fact, we are working to harmonize the two systems so that blood donor centres can meet the standards established. We will take the best from each system. We will adjust our system according-

ly. We will not lower our standards in order to meet those of the U.S. system.

[Pauline Picard, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Speaker, this does not make any sense any more.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[Pauline Picard, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

In fact, I noticed that we are quite different. I asked a new question and I heard the same thing again today for the second time because I asked yesterday. I would like to get a clear and precise answer.

How can the minister seriously claim that people are fully informed of the risks of blood transfusions when we have learned that the Montreal centre's director general had to request operational and procedural directives in French, if you please, which she is still waiting for?

[Diane Marleau, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, I will answer very clearly.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

[Diane Marleau, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

Our blood supply system is among the best in the world. We are always looking for ways to improve it. Every day, every hour, in every hospital in the country, we save lives thanks to our blood supply system. We must continue to encourage our volunteer donors to give blood.

Immigration

[Art Hanger, Reform, Calgary Northeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, this summer the results of a very revealing immigration poll were released. Sixty per cent of Canadians believe immigration levels should be lower. Sixty-nine per cent said sponsorship should be limited to immediate dependent family. Ninety-six per cent did not want people admitted with terrorist or anti-democratic backgrounds.

Will the minister of immigration admit that his policies of high numbers and extended family reunification and his recently released guidelines that fast track those with violent and anti-democratic backgrounds fly in the face of what an overwhelming majority of Canadians want?

[Sergio Marchi, Liberal, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, the member missed out one number. Only 10 per cent support his party and the number is dropping.

I was trying to tell the leader of the Reform Party that the critic was as wrong on the information he spread about the fast tracking procedures as he was yesterday when he talked about a specific case. I reiterate to the hon. member that the things he said about the fast track procedures are absolutely wrong.

Also I know, as my party in government and all members do, that no Canadians would like to invite terrorists or criminals to be within their midst. No one in this Chamber or across this country would like that.

With Bill C-44 we have taken precisely the common sense approach to try to fix up the removals and tighten up the refugee system. My question is: Why is that party playing politics and not supporting the legislation?

[Art Hanger, Reform, Calgary Northeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the minister's bureaucrats want numbers cut. They want family reunification rationalized and refugee determination tightened. The minister's department, the overwhelming majority of Canadians and even a significant number of backbenchers in the minister's own party want Reform policy implemented.

When will the minister stop standing alone, stop pandering to special interests and do what everyone wants him to do: implement Reform immigration policy?

[Sergio Marchi, Liberal, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, over the last eight months this party has put in motion an unprecedented consultation process with Canadians, the very grassroots, which is what the hon. member suggests we did not do.

In fact the hon. member told our departmental officials at the two-day conference how impressed he was with the breadth of the consultation process. I challenge the member to deny that.

Not only are we putting in train, putting in the one room the individuals who accentuate one particular line, but when was the last time a minister of a government invited the Immigration Association of Canada to participate so that government could have the purview of Canadian public opinion?

Before November 1 this government will table those levels. I know the levels will be in the best interests of Canada and not in the best interests of the Reform Party.