Debates of Oct. 2nd, 1995

Department Of National Defence

[Jim Hart, Reform, Okanagan—Similkameen—Merritt, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of National Defence has consistently expressed confidence in his department officials despite recurring charges of mismanagement, poor judgment and misconduct.

Another internal inquiry is utterly unacceptable. The DND hierarchy is absolutely unable to investigate itself. The evidence of these documents suggests possible criminal behaviour.

Will the minister treat this as a criminal matter within his department which is separate from the Somalia inquiry and immediately call in the RCMP to investigate the Department of National Defence?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I would not preclude any measure that might be taken with respect to this matter. Initially we are investigating it ourselves. Should it warrant investigation by an outside agency such as the RCMP, that will done.

Cfb Chatham

[Jean-Marc Jacob, Bloc, Charlesbourg, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of National Defence.

In order to lessen the consequences of the closure of the base in Chatham, New Brunswick, the minister forced the bidders for the program of refurbishment of armoured vehicles to do the work in Chatham, where there is no expertise in the field. Yet, in Saint-Jean, Quebec, the government closed the Military College, reduced the staff and the activities of the base, with dire consequences for the region's economy, but offered no compensation whatsoever.

How does the minister justify, on the one hand, compensating Chatham for the losses while, on the other, refusing to give Oerlikon of Saint-Jean the same incentives he gave GM, and this despite the fact that Oerlikon has unique expertise in the area of gun turrets?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the armoured personnel carrier contract, the refurbishment of the old carriers and the direction of part of that work to Chatham-and the hon. member conveniently forgot to mention that most of the work on the refurbishment would be done at the defence workshops in the east end of Montreal-do not constitute any reparation or compensation for base closures. We have categorically ruled that out.

If we can assist a community, whether it is Chatham, Saint-Jean, Quebec, Calgary or anywhere else where base closures have been announced, by directing or encouraging suppliers to do business with a base or make purchases or manufacture in certain regions, then we would do so.

What we have said because of all of the closures-the one at Chatham being the most devastating in terms of its regional impact-is that any contractor who wishes to carry out a small part of the work of refurbishment would have to stipulate that the work be done in Chatham, New Brunswick. I think that is fair and equitable.

[Jean-Marc Jacob, Bloc, Charlesbourg, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I did not forget the whole business of refurbishing the armoured vehicles, but I remind the minister that he specified that contracts would be in Chatham, whether there is expertise there or not.

Should I understand that when it comes to Ontario and New Brunswick the Minister of National Defence does not hesitate to compensate for closures, protect jobs and even create new ones, whereas for Quebec there is no maintenance work provided for the old armoured vehicles? The Prime Minister wants us to give him good reasons to vote yes, here is one.

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member is quick to criticize the government, especially on defence reductions.

First, I have to remind the hon. member that it was his party in the last election that called for a 25 per cent reduction in defence spending.

Second, the hon. member has the Canadian forces base Valcartier near his constituency. He conveniently forgets to tell you, Mr. Speaker, that actually defence expenditures at Valcartier have

been increased in the last couple of years when other regions have suffered.

Third, he conveniently forgets to say that the majority of the refurbishment work is going to be done in an area of very high unemployment, the east end of Montreal, because the defence workshops there are the most able to perform that work. He does not tell us all of that.

1996 Census

[Val Meredith, Reform, Surrey—White Rock—South Langley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Industry says that a question on race is included in the 1996 census because a specific question on racial origin would be beneficial for a wide range of purposes.

However, question 19 is inconsistent as it confuses race, nationality and geographic location. It would allow the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration to claim to be a visible minority because of his Latin American birth.

Can any minister advise the House of one purpose this question will benefit other than providing targets for the government's employment equity program?

[Jon Gerrard, Liberal, Secretary of State (Science]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for her question. Every five years Statistics Canada gathers important information to allow the government to fulfil its programs and commitments to Canadians.

In this context, the questions which have been developed for the 1996 census are eminently reasonable and sensible.

[Val Meredith, Reform, Surrey—White Rock—South Langley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, Canadians filling out this question will have the option of stating whether they are one of the following nationalities: Chinese, Filipino, Japanese or Korean. However, most immigrants, or descendants of immigrants from these countries, consider themselves to be proud Canadians but they cannot indicate that.

Is the government prepared to stop the practice of creating hyphenated Canadians by adding another nationality to the list, Canadian?

[Jon Gerrard, Liberal, Secretary of State (Science]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member has omitted to read question 17. Question 17 asks to which ethnic or cultural group does this person's ancestors belong. In Question 17, one of the answers is Canadian.

Question 19 is different. I point out that the census document will quite clearly allow people to show that they are of Canadian origin.

Research And Development

[Pierrette Venne, Bloc, Saint-Hubert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Finance, who is responsible for regional development in Quebec.

When it was first announced that the Canadian space agency would be located in Saint-Hubert, we were told that federal aerospace research would be conducted in Quebec. However, aerospace research centres, which have a combined budget of close to $45 million, have remained in Ottawa.

Does the Minister of Finance, who is responsible for regional development in Quebec, agree that maintaining space research activities in Ottawa, rather than centralizing them in Saint-Hubert, close to the space agency, favours Ontario at the expense of Quebec?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, the aerospace industry employs over 32,000 people in Quebec, thanks to the federal programs in that sector. The fact is that the agency is there. It is not in Ottawa. As a Montrealer, the hon. member should know that there is a great deal of work in research and development. The agency is located in her riding. The member should be very proud of that and she should know that there is a lot of R and D being conducted, that a lot of work is being contracted out, and that many jobs were created thanks to federal activities in her riding.

[Pierrette Venne, Bloc, Saint-Hubert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, how can the minister claim that Quebec was treated fairly by the federal government regarding federal research centres, considering that these centres employ only 3,000 people in Quebec, compared to 11,000, or almost four times more, in Ontario? Is this not another good reason to vote Yes?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, Quebec's pharmaceutical industry exists thanks to federal programs. The aerospace industry exists thanks to federal programs. As for the computer industry as a whole, Quebec entrepreneurs are successful in these sectors thanks to federal programs.

If we look at R and D grants, Quebec gets over 40 per cent thanks to federal programs. The truth is that the federal government has built on the enormous capabilities of our entrepreneurs and, instead of criticizing us, the hon. member should take pride in their success.

Foreign Investment

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, billions of dollars are required to finish construction of Canada's information highway. Right now those billions of dollars are stuck at the U.S. border. The reason they are stuck there is because of archaic foreign ownership restrictions that have been upheld by the government. Even its own advisory council is asking for change.

When is the government going to do something for consumers instead of catering to special interests and bring that much needed investment into the country?

[Jon Gerrard, Liberal, Secretary of State (Science]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased that the hon. member has highlighted the importance of developing the information highway in Canada. It is important to note that it is recognized in the telecommunications area that our structure in terms of foreign investment is appropriate. They are looking at and have recommended changes in other areas.

Quite frankly we think the investment potential is here. It is a very exciting investment for the Canadian area and it is occurring with the existing rules in the area of telecommunications.

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, we have heard those speeches for two years in this place. If they keep up with this kind of attitude, the information highway will become an information goat path in Canada.

Thousands of jobs are waiting to be created in the country. Why is the government stifling the creation of all those jobs, those 21st century jobs, by maintaining 19th century protectionist policies?

[Jon Gerrard, Liberal, Secretary of State (Science]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to inform the hon. member that Canada's telecommunications infrastructure and programs are seen as among the leaders in the world.

We are moving very quickly to open up a very competitive environment. Investment in this area is increasing dramatically and the investment in research and development, which has been the particular question today, is very substantial. It looks like a bright future.

Research And Development

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Minister of Finance, responsible for regional development in Quebec.

The Prime Minister asked us to find good reasons to vote Yes in the referendum, and here is another one. Research and development is a fundamental tool for developing the economy and employment in Quebec. Ever since statistics became available, Quebec has never had its fair share of federal spending in this area.

Will the Minister of Finance, who is responsible for regional development in Quebec, admit that the federal government has done nothing in the past two years to redress a long standing injustice with respect to research and development in federal laboratories, which leaves Quebec with a meagre 15.8 per cent of the R&D budget although it represents 25 per cent of the population?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, unfortunately for the hon. member, these figures are entirely inaccurate. They are not correct.

In the past ten years, the federal government built ten new research centres in Quebec.

[An hon. member]

Really?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

Yes, really. Furthermore, six research institutions were established jointly with the province. All these institutions are involved in areas that are vital to the development of Quebec and Canada: biotechnology, energy, the environment, aerospace, optics, and many more.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, no mistake, it is absolutely too good to be true.

A study released in 1992 reported and I quote: "Moreover, research and development expenditures by the federal government in Quebec must account for a fairer share than the disgraceful 13 per cent they now represent". The author of that study-the Prime Minister says Le Hir-no, no, if you just look to your left you will see the author, the Minister of Finance, who was quoted in the June 8 1992 papers as saying so. He is the author.

It was the Minister of Finance who wrote "the disgraceful 13 per cent", when he was-

[An hon. member]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

I am sure that we are getting to the question right now.