Debates of Oct. 23rd, 1995

British Columbia Treaty Commission

[The Speaker]

Colleague, of course you have just started your remarks. You will have the floor immediately when we come back to the debate.

It being 2 p.m., we will now go to Statements by Members.

Quebec Referendum

[Beth Phinney, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the residents of Hamilton Mountain are very concerned about the referendum campaign in Quebec.

In countless conversations with my constituents many have expressed a strong desire to see Canada remain united. They want Quebecers to remain within Canada so that they do not lose the benefits of belonging to one of the world's most prosperous and successful countries. We want them as members of the Canadian family to enjoy all the privileges that entails.

As a united country, we have managed to build a prosperous and progressive society. Both Canada and Quebec are better off united.

On behalf of the residents of Hamilton Mountain, I would like to appeal to Quebecers to choose Canada and vote no on October 30.

Manitoba

[Jake Hoeppner, Reform, Lisgar—Marquette, MB]

Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure to rise in the House to pay tribute to Manitoba's 125th anniversary.

Over the past year, all Manitobans have celebrated the history of this great province and its place within Canada. All over the province, communities large and small have been holding events and gatherings focusing on Manitoba's 125th birthday.

The strength and prosperity of Manitoba has been built by people of many different cultures and customs. Bound together by a dedication to hard work, they have built a proud legacy that will endure long into the future.

The past year has also seen celebrations of special accomplishments in the history of Manitoba. These achievements have been a source of pride for not only Manitobans but all Canadians as well.

In this anniversary year, Manitoba serves as a shining example of what can be achieved through the fundamental values of hard work, dedication and commitment to building a strong community.

Canadian Unity

[Paul Devillers, Liberal, Simcoe North, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I wish to pay tribute to Roger Bernard who, with the help of his organizer, Mr. Robert Feeney, was able to accumulate over 60,000 signatures in support of Canadian unity.

Mr. Bernard began a 23-day journey on July 1 of this year entitled "Canada Can Campaign '95-Standing Up for Canadian Unity" in order to deliver a message of optimism, hope and inspiration to all Canadians.

Mr. Bernard collected these signatures on a long trip spent running and cycling the 2,219 kilometres between Barrie, Ontario, and his hometown, Eel River Crossing, in New Brunswick. He covered an average of 100 kilometres per day and visited 23 municipalities.

Speaking on behalf of all Canadians, I want to commend Mr. Bernard for his courage and his dedication to our country.

Mr. Bernard and Mr. Feeney are in the House today.

Referendum Campaign

[Ben Serré, Liberal, Timiskaming—French-River, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I rise in the House today to speak to our neighbours in Quebec who are going through a period that is critical for their future. My riding, Timiskaming-French River, is on the Quebec border, and 30 per cent of the residents are francophones.

Since time immemorial, people in Northern Ontario and Northern Quebec have done business with each other. Strong ties of friendship have developed between these two regions. There is no doubt that if Quebec separates from the rest of Canada, we would see a considerable decline in the level of interprovincial trade. Quebec's separation would also have a devastating impact on what now constitutes Canada's strength: our trade, our economy, our national and international relations and especially our two cultures.

Dear friends and neighbours in Quebec, there are no problems we cannot solve in order to build this beautiful country together. So on October 30, decide to grow with Canada and say no to separation.

Francophones Outside Quebec

[Dan McTeague, Liberal, Ontario, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the Bloc Quebecois gives us a false impression of its interest in the situation of francophones outside Quebec. Compare the insincerity of its comments on the decline of francophones outside Quebec with the following statement sent by the mayor of Whitby to the mayor of Longueuil, as part of an exchange of letters between the two twin cities. It indicates that francophones outside Quebec have not been assimilated and have contributed to the education of dynamic communities.

As Mayor Edwards said: "I can assure you of the fond admiration and deep attachment felt by all citizens who have taken part in twinning activities since 1969, for our friends and colleagues in the city of Longueuil; I am convinced that the feeling is mutual.

In Whitby, there are tangible and permanent signs of these exchanges which gladden my heart. From my window, for instance, I see Longueuil Park. A little to the north, Charles Garnier school is under construction, a school for French immersion which reminds us of the presence and growth of francophone communities in our country".

Referendum Campaign

[Osvaldo Nunez, Bloc, Bourassa, QC]

Mr. Speaker, last week, the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs went so far as to call the sovereignists racists. This insulting epithet is not worthy of a parliamentarian and certainly not of a minister. I have spent my whole life fighting against racism, discrimination and injustice and for the rights of minorities, immigrants and refugees. I am not at all a racist.

Furthermore, I can assure you that sovereignists are tolerant and open to cultural diversity, as are the thousands of voters in the riding of Bourassa, in Montreal North, who voted for me, a candidate of Latin American origin.

The Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs should publicly apologize for these gross and unwarranted attacks which were directed to more than 50 per cent of the people of Quebec.

New Democratic Party Of British Columbia

[Mike Scott, Reform, Skeena, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the NDP has always painted itself as the defender of the little guy, the downtrodden and the poor. It is time for a reality check.

Recent news stories in British Columbia reveal that British Columbia's New Democratic Party and a related fundraising group used a web of deceitful accounting and shady payoffs to rip off charities for years. NDP headquarters has been raided on the execution of search warrants alleging theft and fraud of more than one million dollars.

This scandal has serious implications for this House. Several former members are implicated in the diversion of charity funds. The question is how much money flowed from NCHS to finance federal NDP campaigns?

In a 1987 letter former NDP MP Dave Stupich claims that the Nanaimo Commonwealth Holding Society contributed substantially to the New Democratic Party at the local, provincial and federal levels.

On behalf of the charities involved and all members of the House, I demand that the investigators broaden their scope past the B.C. border to include contributions made to federal-

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Regina-Qu'Appelle.

National Parole Board

[Simon de Jong, NDP, Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK]

Mr. Speaker, Helen Betty Osborne, a 19-year-old Métis girl, was brutally murdered in 1971 in The Pas, Manitoba. Sixteen years later Dwayne Archie Johnston was the only person convicted for the crime and sentenced to a life sentence with no eligibility of parole for ten years. An aboriginal justice inquiry also determined that the murder was clearly motivated by racism.

Today, only seven years after his conviction, Mr. Johnston is out on day parole and can enjoy his weekends outside the prison. Newspaper reports state that there are a number of serious factual errors in the parole board's file on Mr. Johnston and that he "narrated his version of events in an emotionally flat, bland manner, as if rehearsed".

I strongly urge the parole board to seriously re-examine its decision to allow Mr. Johnston day parole.

Referendum Campaign

[Jean Landry, Bloc, Lotbinière, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Foreign Affairs belittled Quebecers on the weekend by intimating that Quebec would be too small to penetrate world markets. Quebecers will simply not stand for such belittlement and will continue to maintain a steady course for sovereignty, despite the waves created and the flotsam strewn in their way by the advocates of the status quo.

In response to the minister, who claimed that voting yes was like trading an ocean liner for a rowboat, we offer the remarks of the Mayor of Granby, who said: "And I say this to you: the Titanic is listing dangerously. The time has come for us to get off the luxury liner in a calm and orderly fashion and board the Quebec flagship''.

And this is exactly what Quebecers will do on October 30.

Francophones Outside Quebec

[Guy Arseneault, Liberal, Restigouche—Chaleur, NB]

Mr. Speaker, there are others besides the Bloc member for Rimouski-Témiscouata lacking respect for francophones outside Quebec. Her separatist colleague, the PQ regional delegate for the Outaouais region, stated on October 20, with regard to francophones outside Quebec, that they are much more colonized than francophones in Quebec, so they are twice as afraid, that francophones outside Quebec are twice as frightened and doubly moved by the fear sown by the camp of the desperate.

Quebec separatists have become so arrogant toward those different from them that they think they can do anything they like. Quebecers are aware of Canada's virtues of tolerance and generosity. On October 30, they will vote no to the arrogance of the separatists.

Referendum Campaign

[Eugène Bellemare, Liberal, Carleton—Gloucester, ON]

Mr. Speaker, in a week it will be October 30, and Quebecers will have to vote in the referendum on Quebec's separation.

Before they vote, they should ask the following questions. Do you want Quebec to separate? Do you want Quebec to stop being part of Canada? Should Quebec become a foreign country? Do you no longer want to be represented in Canada's Parliament, that is, no longer elect members in a federal election? Do you want to give up all that you, your parents and your grandparents have built in this country?

Quebecers know Canada. It is their country. They have always had their place here. They know that Canada can be improved to better meet their aspirations and they will prove it by voting no on October 30.

[Francis Leblanc, Liberal, Cape Breton Highlands—Canso, NS]

Mr. Speaker, one of the key arguments used by the separatist spokespersons in justifying their plan to separate Quebec is the issue of protection and survival of the French language.

It is claimed that French is in danger in Quebec and the only way to ensure its future is to break Canada apart this coming October 30.

How can the separatists make such an exaggeration concerning the French language, when they are preparing in their project of separation to condemn more than a million francophones outside Quebec to isolation?

In Canada, the French language knows no borders, no colour, no race. This coming October 30, Quebecers will say no to the abandonment of their millions of francophone neighbours, and a strong Quebec will remain within a Canada which, too, will be strong and united.

[Roger Pomerleau, Bloc, Anjou—Rivière-Des-Prairies, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the following is a comment that was made in May 1990 on the Prime Minister of Canada's position with respect to Quebec. It was said that "For a year he has made political hay at the expense of Quebecers by telling English Canada that there would be no problem in Quebec if the Meech Lake Accord failed".

And who was the author of this commentary? A sovereignist? Not in the least. It was the present Minister of Finance who was denouncing the intransigence of the Prime Minister of Canada with regard to the demands of Quebec.

It is all very well for the Prime Minister of Canada to try to rewrite history, casting himself in the role of Captain Quebec, but Quebecers remember that the person who was pulling the strings to make Meech fail in its attempt to meet the minimal demands of Quebec to reintegrate the Canadian Constitution was none other than the "little guy from Shawinigan".

If we vote no, we are again placing the fate of Quebec in the hands of the man who, to again quote his Minister of Finance, "went off to Ottawa to put Quebec in its place".

[Bob Ringma, Reform, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Mr. Speaker, is Quebec a distinct society, or is it not?

We reformers believe it is, but we also believe that the other provinces have some distinguishing elements as well.

In our opinion, all provinces should have the same status within Confederation, just as all Canadians should be equal in the eyes of the law.

We have therefore reached the conclusion that it is possible to ensure equality and the recognition of languages and cultures. All that this would require would be to give the provinces primary responsibility for language and culture.

[Pierrette Ringuette-Maltais, Liberal, Madawaska—Victoria, NB]

Mr. Speaker, the contempt with which the Bloc member from Rimouski-Témiscouata referred to francophones outside Quebec is absolutely unacceptable. It illustrates the kind of threat the separatist platform represents for francophones in other provinces.

Canada's francophones now know perfectly well that a separate Quebec would have no interest in introducing measures to promote the French fact in Canada.

Quebecers, however, are very sensitive to the issue of protecting the French language. They will not let the separation of Quebec threaten the future of more than one million francophone compatriots.

On October 30, they will vote no, because they do not want the French language to disappear in Canada. We will not let the separatist magician make us disappear with a wave of his magic wand.

[Don Boudria, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Mr. Speaker, francophones outside Quebec continued throughout the weekend to react to the intolerable comments made by the Bloc member from Rimouski-Témiscouata.

We all remember that last week, the Bloc member said in the House, and I quote: "According to Statistics Canada, there are one million francophones outside Quebec, but just 640,000 speak French. They have been assimilated-the francophones-poof!" she said, making fun of us francophones outside Quebec.

Director General Georges Arès of the Association canadienne française de l'Alberta said, and I quote: "The future of francophones in Alberta is more promising than ever before". Mr. Arès

was referring, for instance, to a commitment by Premier Ralph Klein regarding school governance by Franco-Albertans.

Francophones across Canada, including those in Quebec, feel insulted. As Murray Maltais said in Le Droit , referring to the hon. member in question: ``She says what she thinks, but she does not always think about what she says''.

Gaston Tremblay

[Darrel Stinson, Reform, Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Mr. Speaker, on October 16 I attended the funeral of a great Canadian, my friend Gaston Tremblay, whom I always knew as Gus, a native of Quebec.

Gus retired to my riding in 1984 after a distinguished career in the RCMP. Gus had a talent for numbers, which he used as an RCMP auditor but also as a volunteer treasurer for many community organizations, including the Royal Canadian Legion and the Reform Party as my official agent during the election campaign. He attained a high rank in the Knights of Columbus and was past president of both the RCMP Veterans Association and Gateby intermediate care facilities.

His talent with numbers gave him special insight regarding our national debt and as treasurer of any group he guarded their every dollar. Gus was a man of passionate convictions. He dearly loved his country and rejected the idea of hyphenated Canadians.

I extend my sympathies to his family and join them in their grief. Gus Tremblay, my friend, will be sorely missed.

Referendum Campaign

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, after an urgent appeal from the chair of the No committee, Mr. Daniel Johnson, who asked him to announce his position on the issues of distinct society, veto rights and elimination of overlap, the Prime Minister of Canada, after humiliating his ally, Daniel Johnson, in New York by refusing to do so, finally agreed to issue a joint statement with Mr. Johnson dealing only with distinct society, and I will quote part of the statement:

We remind you that we have both supported the inclusion of this principle in the Canadian Constitution every time Quebec has demanded it.

My question is directed to the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs. What explanation does the minister have for the fact that the Prime Minister claims he has always supported the principle of a distinct society every time Quebec has demanded it, although he fought with such tenacity against the Meech Lake Accord which contained a significant definition of distinct society?

[The Speaker]

My dear colleagues, I would appreciate it if you would make both your questions and your answers a little shorter.

[Marcel Massé, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I think if anyone reads the last paragraph of the statement, he will know exactly what the situation is, without the embellishments added by the hon. member for Roberval. I will read the last paragraph of the statement issued jointly by the chair of the No committee and the Prime Minister of Canada:

We state unequivocally that Quebec is a distinct society. We remind you that we have both supported the inclusion of this principle in the Canadian Constitution every time Quebec has demanded it. We have not changed our opinion on this subject and we always maintain our support for this fundamental Canadian reality. We have supported it in the past; we support it today and we will support it in the future, in all circumstances.

This is a clear-cut position; it indicates exactly what the No committee and the Prime Minister of Canada believe.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, would the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs acknowledge that when the Prime Minister of Canada says that he has supported in the past, supports today and will support in the future, in all circumstances, the distinct identity of Quebec society, he is referring to the concept of distinct society in the Charlottetown Accord, a concept that was meaningless, being subordinate to the equality of the provinces, a concept that was rejected by Quebecers, and that the Prime Minister has always been opposed to the concept of distinct society as defined in the Meech Lake Accord?

[Marcel Massé, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada]

Mr. Speaker, the answer is no, and once again we must emphasize that the question on October 30 will be about the separation of Quebec from Canada.

The Bloc Quebecois wants to separate Quebec from Canada. As for Mr. Parizeau, when the distinct society concept was raised with him, his comment was: "I do not give a damn about distinct society, I do not want it". That is what he said. And he is the leader of the Yes committee, while we have always insisted it was possible to be both a Quebecer and a Canadian and that it is in the best interests of Quebecers to remain in Canada in order to make the changes that are needed.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs knows perfectly well it is unconscionable for the Prime Minister of Canada to tell his ally, the head of the No committee, that the distinct identity of Quebec society will certainly not be enshrined in the Canadian constitution.

Will the minister at least admit that the reason the Prime Minister will not include this distinct identity in the Canadian constitution is that he ran his campaign for the leadership of the Liberal Party on an anti-Meech Lake platform, so much so that the then Minister of Finance said in Le Devoir on March 9, 1990: ``Jean Chrétien is about to destroy forever the credibility of the Liberals in Quebec''? Would he agree the Minister of Finance was right?