Debates of Oct. 26th, 1995

Training

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, if memory holds me correct I am scheduled to leave as soon as question period is over for the wonderful province of Alberta. I think on my schedule is a meeting with the minister of advanced education and labour to talk about these very matters.

We have been having a wonderfully co-operative arrangement with the Government of Alberta on single window delivery systems for young people and ending duplication and overlap its programs.

To the credit of the minister, Alberta has been prepared to discuss such matters, unlike the minister of employment for Quebec who has refused all entreaties and all invitations from me to get together and talk about how we can come together and provide for real and true decentralization.

[Jan Brown, Reform, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, discussion time should by now be well and truly over.

The minister has failed for two years to make any solid commitment in this area. The Liberal rhetoric for change rings hollow, untrue and empty as these promises go unfulfilled.

Why will the minister not give the power and the money to the provinces to manage the manpower training as they want to?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to remind the hon. member of one very important development.

A few months ago the provincial premiers assembled in St. John's, Newfoundland to discuss social reform. At that time they established a special committee of provincial ministers who were to come together to develop a common position. Once they had arrived at a common position, they would then sit down with myself, the Minister of Finance, the Minister of Health and other ministers to discuss those issues.

They have not arrived at a decision yet. They have not concluded their discussions. They have not decided what their position will be. I said at the time that when the council of ministers on social security reform was prepared to meet I would be there. They are not prepared yet, but as soon as they are ready I will be at the table.

Referendum Campaign

[Michel Bellehumeur, Bloc, Berthier—Montcalm, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans.

In response to an appeal by the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans, Canadian International will be offering discounts of between 60 per cent and 90 per cent to enable thousands of people from various cities in Canada to land in Quebec as part of the referendum campaign.

How can the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans not only be in collusion but, moreover, entice a private company to contravene the Referendum Act, especially when he now knows the decision of the Chief Electoral Officer on the matter?

[Joe Fontana, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, the member should know that under the National Transportation Act, air carriers are free to set their own rates with regard to servicing Canadians going from one point to another and that is exactly what they have done.

[Michel Bellehumeur, Bloc, Berthier—Montcalm, QC]

Mr. Speaker, now we have heard everything in this House.

My question, however, is for the minister responsible for organizing this great manoeuvre. How can he induce his cabinet and caucus colleagues into contravening Quebec law, as he is doing at the moment, in the newspapers?

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Order. I would once again ask you, my dear colleagues, not to use props in the House.

[Brian Tobin, Liberal, Minister of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Speaker, what various transportation companies are doing is entirely up to them. The only thing I am doing is taking my wife, my children and I am going to Montreal. I suspect some other Canadians who love this country and love Quebec may join me.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

Federal Public Service

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Mr. Speaker, there has been a lot of speculation recently on the possibility of the Quebec government's-

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Speaker]

Order. Today is Thursday, is it not? We have missed a day.

The hon. member for Ottawa-Vanier has the floor.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Mr. Speaker, there has been a lot of speculation recently on the possibility of the Quebec government's signing an agreement with the Public Service Alliance, the largest public service union. This agreement would guarantee federal public servants living in Quebec a job in an independent Quebec following a Yes vote.

Could the President of the Treasury Board, as the employer of federal public servants, indicate to the members of this House and to the people watching us the status of these negotiations or the promises or the pseudo guarantees made to federal public servants?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for Infrastructure]

Mr. Speaker, the Parti Quebecois government has promised that all federal public servants residing in Quebec would have a job in an independent Quebec. There is no job guarantee, however, because the Parti Quebecois has not concluded any agreement with the largest union representing federal public servants. Federal public servants in Quebec should be wary of empty promises by the separatists.

Federal-Provincial Relations

[Ed Harper, Reform, Simcoe Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, today at Queen's Park the Harris government introduced an all-party motion calling for decentralization, an end to the status quo and a shifting of federal power to the provinces.

It is proof that Canada wants change and, indeed, can change with a no vote on Monday.

Is the federal government open to this type of substantial change without constitutional amendments?

[Marcel Massé, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada]

Mr. Speaker, the government has done nothing but promote change over the last two years.

We have indicated not only our intention to create profound changes but, as I have said before, we have put together a program review that is reducing the size of the federal government by 20 per cent, recentreing the activities of the federal government to those that can discharge them best. We have applied a federalism principle in program review that will give to the provinces and the other levels of government the activities they can discharge more efficiently.

That is the proof, not only that we talk about change but that we implement it in this government.

[Ed Harper, Reform, Simcoe Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the message is not getting through. The separatists are wrong when they say Canada cannot change. Reformers want change, Ontario wants change, B.C. wants change and Nova Scotia wants change. By voting no on Monday Quebecers will open the door to building a new Canada, a stronger Canada, a united Canada.

Will the government assure Quebecers that a no vote means change? Will it assure the Government of Quebec?

[Marcel Massé, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I can only agree with the comments of the member of the third party. He is underlining what is fundamental, that a no vote on Monday will mean change, a yes vote will mean rupture and disaster.

Referendum Campaign

[René Laurin, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister responsible for the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation, the Minister of Public Works.

Yesterday, the President of CMHC authorized distribution of a memorandum encouraging employees to take part in the big no rally to be held tomorrow in Montreal, by offering them paid leave.

How can the minister approve paying CMHC employees to travel to Montreal and demonstrate in favour of the no side with the support of the President of CMHC, Marc Rochon?

[David Dingwall, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services and Minister for the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for his question. I hope he will want to join with other Canadians tomorrow in support of the no forces in the province of Quebec.

This government allows its employees to decide what they want to do in this referendum. The hon. member is quite right. A memorandum was circulated. But a second memorandum has been circulated which states very clearly that if they wish to participate in the no side of the referendum tomorrow they can do so, but they will not be paid by the Government of Canada.

[René Laurin, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I trust that we are speaking of the same directive, because the one we have obtained really said "Those who go to Montreal will have paid leave for Friday".

My second question is for the President of Treasury Board. Will the minister confirm that a number of other federal public servants were apparently offered leave with pay for going to Montreal for Friday's demonstration, and does he consider that taking part in such a demonstration is included in their job descriptions?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for Infrastructure]

Mr. Speaker, we will be operating as a government tomorrow. Offices will be open right across the country. Our employees will operate in accordance with the collective agreement.

Whether or not our employees go to the rally in Montreal is completely a personal decision. If they want to take a day off, they can do that in accordance with vacation leave. They can take a day of vacation. However, they will have to work that out with their managers to ensure that operationally all the government services

will continue to be provided to Canadians tomorrow. That is something for the managers and the individuals to work out. However, within the collective agreement they are entitled to take days off.

Bank Of Canada

[Herb Grubel, Reform, Capilano—Howe Sound, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the people of Quebec are more likely to vote no if their expectations that the government will decentralize and create a smaller federal presence are greater. They will also be likely to vote no if they can be assured that national institutions, such as the Bank of Canada, will be made more responsive to the demands and aspirations of regions.

I ask the Minister of Finance this. Will he consider changes to the operation and constitution of the Bank of Canada such that, like in other industrial countries, monetary policy will be made by people who are responsive to the regions?

[Marcel Massé, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I am not sure that changes in the structure of the Bank of Canada would really have an effect on the referendum. However, I agree with the hon. member that the spirit of change which has been seen in the federal government very clearly over the last few years is an important element.

The Prime Minister, in his speech last night, talked about the acceptance of a distinct society. He talked about the right of veto and he indicated that the decentralization which was in the last budget and in the program review is an essential part of what this government wants to do.

We have to conclude that we have already started to change. That is a fact. The relationship between the federal government and the provinces is evolving all the time. We have clearly indicated our intention to change.