Debates of Oct. 4th, 1995

Vietnam

[Ted McWhinney, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Foreign Affairs.

The Vietnamese government has now scheduled a retrial of nine religious, academic and cultural leaders in Vietnam who were previously condemned to prison. Will the minister convey to the Vietnamese government that a favourable result of this judicial review will have a positive influence on relations between Canada and Vietnam?

[André Ouellet, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to point out the hon. member's important contribution to the defence of rights and freedoms. I think that his question is a suggestion to the government, and we accept it as such. I hope that Vietnamese authorities will take it into account in a positive way.

Canada Pension Plan

[Jan Brown, Reform, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, in a speech in 1991 the Minister for Human Resources Development worried about the concerns and anxieties of Canadians over future levels of funding for the Canada pension plan. In the past four years those concerns have not gone away, they have only gotten worse. The minister has had two years to address these concerns, but he has failed to do so.

Will the minister end the speculation and uncertainty for Canadian seniors, deliver on his promise to reform the Canada pension plan and announce here and now a specific date for reforms of the Canada pension plan?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, if the hon. member has been waiting since 1991, she might want to wait a few days longer.

I understand the concern of the hon. member. We all share a very deep interest in ensuring that Canadians in retirement have effective and sustainable pension programs. The government is very committed to it because it authored the major old age pension and income security programs. That is why in the last budget we underlined once again our strong commitment to maintain and strengthen those programs and to enhance them.

To prepare ourselves for that, the Minister of Finance in working with my department is preparing a paper that will outline for Canadians the choices and options we will have to face in the Canada pension plan in order to ensure that we can sustain its financing over the next years to meet the very large growth in the number of Canadians that will be retiring. We are working on that as well as we can. When the paper is right and ready we will present it, certainly to the hon. member. We will also present it to every other Canadian.

[Jan Brown, Reform, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to tell the minister that the Reform Party is ready to go. Just watch for October 11 next week when we will be making our announcement.

Two weeks ago the Minister of Human Resources Development stated the Canada pension plan is not in a state of collapse. However, the chief actuary in the finance department last week wrote in a letter: "The Canada pension plan fund is expected to be exhausted by the year 2015".

My question is for the Minister of Finance. When it comes to the status of the Canada pension plan, who does he believe, the HRD minister or his chief actuary?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, I happen to believe the minister of HRD. I also happen to believe the chief actuary because their opinions are the same.

The chief actuary did say that if action were not taken on the Canada pension plan that major financial problems would ensue. The minister of HRD has made it very clear that the government intends to take such action. Meetings have already been held with the officials. There will be meetings with provincial finance ministers. That is where the changes have to take place.

I look forward to hearing the Reform Party's suggestions. I hope they are a little bit better than the budget it came out with last year. However it is something we work on with the provinces. The minister of HRD and I will be doing that together.

Industry Canada

[Christiane Gagnon, Bloc, Québec, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs. On September 22 the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs stated in this House that his government was not carrying out any studies on overlap, just analyses. A fine distinction. The secret Industry Canada document confirms the existence of factual analyses on overlap, and I quote: For further details on duplication and overlap, refer to analyses.

Now that we have confirmation that such analyses on duplication and overlap do exist, does the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs plan to make them public before the referendum?

[Marcel Massé, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I shall repeat my position, because it is true; the unity group within my Department has carried out no analysis whatsoever on duplication and overlap, and has carried out no study whatsoever on duplication and overlap.

We do have a process to reduce and eliminate duplication and overlap, and this has led to the signature of a number of action plans by the first ministers. So, that is a process which does exist. I greatly regret that the present Parti Quebecois government has refused to help us eliminate duplication. But the truth is: no studies of that type have been carried out for us.

Saugeen First Nation

[John Duncan, Reform, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the chief of the Saugeen First Nation signed a declaration claiming authority over 300 kilometres of shoreline up to 11 kilometres out into the water around Bruce Peninsula.

Chief Kahgee claimed sovereign status under international law. The chief said he will start today to implement fishing season quotas, issue commercial and sports licences, and analyse resources. The department of Indian affairs has known about this for over three years.

Can the minister tell the House his plans to prevent this subversion of the legitimate authority of the Government of Canada?

[Ron Irwin, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, if a claim has been issued it has not come to my desk. Anyone can issue a claim in Canada. If it is by writ, it winds up with the Minister of Justice. If it is a claim, the member knows there is a process, and if it is a legitimate grievance then it is negotiated.

In 1993 in the Nadjiwon case the Ontario provincial court found that the Saugeen Ojibway have a right of access to and use of their traditional fishing ground around the Bruce Peninsula. The provincial court did not find a right of ownership. If there is an issue there, I am sure in due course it will be decided by a court.

I think the hon. member is doing a disservice to a court system and a claim system we have in Canada that provides for due process and not political brownie points.

[The Speaker]

This will bring to close the question period.

Presence In Gallery

[The Speaker]

I wish to draw the attention of hon. members to the presence in the gallery of His Royal Highness Price Saud Al-Faisal Al Saud, Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

[The Speaker]

Notwithstanding Standing Order 31 a little earlier, some 16 months ago I started an initiative to recognize our distinguished citizens in Canada. To that end, I have invited some men who have in part given us our identity as a nation. There are very few of us in the Chamber who have not at one time wished that we could put on these people's shoes and do what they do. They are among our most talented Canadians.

[An hon. member]

Skates.

[The Speaker]

No, their shoes too.

Because I want to applaud them as you will, I ask you please not to applaud until I call them by name. I want them to stand and remain standing. When they are all standing we want to give them the kind of recognition they deserve for the great service they have done for our nation.

I call on Mr. Andy Bathgate, Mr. Jean Béliveau, Mr. Paul Henderson, Mr. Gordie Howe, Mr. Red Kelly, Mr. Ted Lindsay, Mr. Frank Mahovlich, Mr. Howie Meeker, Mr. Pierre Pilote, Mr. Henri Richard.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

[The Speaker]

My colleagues, in your name I have invited our guests to be in the reading room. I invite you to a small reception where you may meet them. I know you will want their autographs and will want to take pictures. That will be in the reading room after question period.

Points Of Order

[Deborah Grey, Reform, Beaver River, AB]

Mr. Speaker, this arises out of question period. I would like to table, for the House's information and for the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment, the transcript of the actual meeting and the actual remarks made in that meeting by the Hon. Ty Lund, Minister of the Environment for Alberta.

[The Speaker]

The tabling of any document demands the unanimous consent of the House. Is there unanimous consent?

[Some hon. members]

Yes.

[Some hon. members]

No.

[The Speaker]

There is not unanimous consent.

[Deborah Grey, Reform, Beaver River, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I just thought that if an actual document was quoted from in question period I was duty bound to table it, which was what I was trying to do.

[The Speaker]

That is not the case.