Debates of Oct. 5th, 1995

National Family Week

[Roseanne Skoke, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Mr. Speaker, we are celebrating national family week in Canada. The family is the basic institution of life and the solid foundation upon which our forefathers built this great nation.

The protection of families, family life and family values must be a priority with the government. The conventional terms of debate in matters of political, economic and legal issues tend to focus on individual rights and the rights of the state, not the rights of the family. This is unfortunate and must change, for the family is the most important reality in our lives.

This weekend families celebrate Thanksgiving Day in Canada and give thanks to God for our great country, Canada, for our families and friends. Happy Thanksgiving to my constituents of Central Nova.

Canada-Quebec Economic Union

[Jean H. Leroux, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Mr. Speaker, if we choose sovereignty, we shall be able to make choices in keeping with our own values and priorities. By offering to associate ourselves with the rest of Canada in a partnership, we shall be able also to make shared decisions with our neighbours. The proposed partnership agreement with the rest of Canada is a winning combination.

It is a happy combination of autonomy and co-operation. It enables us to take advantage of the elements we have built together-the Canadian currency, the Canadian economic space-and to finally give up squabbling over areas in which our interests are divergent. A vote for change means a vote for ourselves, for the people of Quebec, above and beyond party lines. A Yes vote means finally standing up for our convictions, voting for what we are and what we want to be.

Air Disasters

[Darrel Stinson, Reform, Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to voice my deep concern for the nine Canadians whose helicopter crashed yesterday heading home from Kumtor gold mine in Russia, where they were struggling to bring a new mine into production.

Throughout history the lure of gold has prompted prospectors to face incredible hardships, often only with a packhorse, a pick, a shovel, or a gold pan. The helicopter serves as the modern prospector's packhorse, so all of us in the mining industry can readily sympathize when an accident involves these vehicles.

Gold has its own way of calling us, so precious and fundamental in value. Despite the very real hardships involved, the search for gold will continue to beckon Canadian prospectors and mine developers to snowy mountain tops around the world. Meanwhile, our prayers and good wishes go out to all 15 people on board, as well as to their families.

Interest Rates

[John Solomon, NDP, Regina—Lumsden, SK]

Mr. Speaker, today's Auditor General of Canada report reaffirms what New Democrats have been telling Canadians for years, that the high real interest rate policy is the major reason for our massive debt, not social program spending.

High real interest rates hurt the economy, drive up debt and kill jobs. If the federal debt of $546 billion is a mortgage, Canadians are becoming tenants in their own homes, because 46 per cent of the debt is held by foreigners.

Canada's net foreign indebtedness is by far the highest among major industrialized countries. Even Italy has a foreign debt of less than 12 per cent.

New Democrats have called the Liberal government's high interest rate policy a disaster and the auditor general agrees. High interest rates have created nearly one-third of our debt. More debt should be held by the Bank of Canada. Social program spending has not contributed significantly to Canada's debt.

In view of this evidence, will the Liberals now create a fair economic policy for Canadians, rather than one for foreign investors?

National Parks And Historical Sites

[Andy Mitchell, Liberal, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to acknowledge and thank the hard working men and women who staff our national parks and historical sites.

As Canadians we can be very proud of the quality of our Parks Canada facilities and the quality of service that is provided by a dedicated staff of professionals, men and women who are committed to what are undoubtedly some of Canada's greatest natural resources, our parks and historical sites. These represent an important part of Canadian identity from coast to coast to coast.

In Parry Sound-Muskoka, Parks Canada has responsibility for Georgian Bay Island National Park in the west of my riding and Bethune Memorial House in Gravenhurst. Both facilities have fine reputations and attract visitors from around the world, adding significantly to our local tourist economy.

I congratulate the Parks Canada staff for their fine work on our behalf and for maintaining our resources to the highest standard. Specifically I would like to acknowledge the dedication of Mike Walton, Mary Ellen Corcelli and her staff who are responsible for Bethune House and Georgian Bay National Park.

World Teachers Day

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Mr. Speaker, on October 4, 1966, a special intergovernmental conference adopted the UNESCO recommendation on the status of teachers. Thirty years have passed since the adoption of that historical document, and today we mark the anniversary by inaugurating World Teachers Day.

Just by pure happenstance, on the very day we are marking the vital contribution of our teachers, the permanent campus of la Cité collégiale will be holding its official opening ceremonies in Ottawa. Its teachers and students can be proud of the fact that theirs is the first French-language college of applied arts and technology in Ontario.

I would like to take this opportunity, therefore, to offer my thanks and congratulations to all of the men and women in the educational field for their ongoing efforts to provide Canadian youth with the opportunity to realize their full potential.

My best wishes to all teachers for a happy international day, and to la Cité collégiale for a long life.

Canada Post Corporation

[Francis Leblanc, Liberal, Cape Breton Highlands—Canso, NS]

Mr. Speaker, earlier this year I toured the head offices of Canada Post Corporation here in Ottawa.

I found Canada Post to be a thoroughly modern distribution organization, the equal of any in the world. Its track and trace system for managing mail flow is said to be state of the art and Canada Post is selling the technology worldwide.

Ensuring timely and cost effective mail delivery to all Canadians is no small challenge. Doing so in the midst of a revolution in communications and at a profit is the challenge that Canada Post faces.

For a time, closing rural post offices was seen as a way for Canada Post to meet this challenge, but this avenue was closed with the decision by the Minister of Public Works and Government Services to impose a moratorium on the closure of small rural post offices. That decision has proven to be enlightened. It has refocused the energies of Canada Post and allowed the corporation to discover that its more than 19,000 outlets are not liabilities but important assets. Now it is time to broaden the range of services which Canada Post provides, especially to rural Canadians.

As other countries have discovered, the possibilities are endless and endlessly exciting.

The National Debt

[Maurice Godin, Bloc, Châteauguay, QC]

Mr. Speaker, every day, owing to Canada's enormous debt, a federalist legacy, we see the extent to which interest rates and monetary policy are determined by the central bank of our neighbours to the south and by international financial markets.

On May 16, 1994, even Canada's finance minister acknowledged this dependence on financial markets, and I quote: "Canada's debt, especially its foreign debt, undermines the sovereignty of this country. Our sovereignty suffers when we have to keep our interest rates high-even if our rate of inflation is among the lowest in the world-in order to attract foreign investment".

Because of Canada's dependence on foreign investment, it is clear that if the finance minister ignores his obligations as the manager of this debt by refusing to negotiate a new economic partnership with Quebec, national and foreign markets will call him in to order.

Health Care

[Sharon Hayes, Reform, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the politically artificial October 15 deadline imposed by the health minister on the provinces is rapidly approaching.

Why was it imposed? Some provinces have dared to reform their health care system in the best interests of their residents by offering them choice. Alberta, for example, by addressing the chronic problems in their health care system, may be penalized $7 million annually.

Now there are indications that the minister may be backtracking on her original edict. Officials in her department have stated that October 15 is only the date when they will determine whether some provinces are violating provisions of the Canada Health Act. Financial penalties may be some months down the road.

It is clear the minister's line in the sand is being blown away; blown away by the wind of reform and innovation; blown away by the need for a new Canadian federalism.

Waterloo

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Waterloo, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it is my pleasure to inform the House that Ville de Waterloo, Quebec and the city of Waterloo, Ontario have agreed to formally twin their respective communities.

The aim of the twinning is to promote social, cultural, economic, historic and sports exchanges in order to strengthen existing ties of friendship and provide a framework for mutually beneficial exchanges of information and experiences.

Representatives of the two Waterloos first met in Ottawa during the Spicer commission hearings. I had the honour to be a participant as a municipal councillor.

Ville de Waterloo will be hosted by my community this weekend during Oktoberfest, the largest Bavarian festival outside of Munich. On Monday, Thanksgiving weekend, the mayors of the two Waterloos will be part of the Oktoberfest parade that will be televised nationally.

To mayors, Bernard Provencher and Brian Turnbull, along with their respective councils and communities, we offer our congratulations for their initiatives in promoting goodwill and understanding among Canadians.

My colleague from Kitchener and I would like to invite all members of the House and Canadians to come to Kitchener-Waterloo for Oktoberfest.

Leader Of The Action Démocratique Du Québec

[Bernard Patry, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the separatist leader of the Action démocratique du Québec asked Quebecers to support his plan for Quebec's separation because it was based on the same approach as the common sense revolution of Mike Harris.

This statement by the leader of the ADQ openly contradicted what was said recently by the leader of the PQ about the new government in Ontario. I may recall that recently, the Péquiste leader said in an interview with Le Soleil , and I quote: ``Ralph Klein and Mike Harris did not take the bull by the horns. They took the public by the horns''.

The Yes side should stop adding to the confusion and contradictory statements around the referendum and the future of Quebec. They can make as many clever moves as they want, but the public knows perfectly well that the real issue is separation, and on October 30, the answer will be no.

[Nick Discepola, Liberal, Vaudreuil, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the statement by the separatist leader of the Action démocratique du Québec, which referred to an independent Quebec on the Ontario model proposed by Mike Harris, was not only a contradiction of what was said by his boss, the leader of the Parti Quebecois, it was also a denial of the position taken by the Leader of the Bloc Quebecois.

The Leader of the Official Opposition has already said that the approach and policies of the Conservative Government in Ontario would not be applied to Quebec, and I quote: "I find it disturbing, and many people in Quebec are afraid of this model of society".

It has become increasingly clear that the three leaders on the Yes side cannot agree on the kind of society they want to offer to Quebecers. The people of Quebec are very wary of these contradictions, and that is why they will elect to stay in Canada by voting no on October 30.

Canadian Dollar

[Réjean Lefebvre, Bloc, Champlain, QC]

Mr. Speaker, strangely enough, some supporters of the No side are still questioning the right of a sovereign Quebec to use the Canadian dollar. The decision as to which currency can be used as legal tender on a sovereign country's territory can only be made by that country. Even the United States has no control over transactions made in U.S. dollars outside its borders. It must also be understood that if

Quebecers stop using the Canadian dollar, this will have a very negative effect on its value.

As for the monetary policy, Mr. Johnson must be the only one who thinks that it is controlled by Parliament, as he stated yesterday. In Canada as in most industrialized countries, the central bank must be independent from the political powers in order to ensure its immunity from political influence and vagaries.

Justice

[Myron Thompson, Reform, Wild Rose, AB]

Mr. Speaker, here we go again. The Liberal government's failure to deal effectively with terrorism by a few aboriginal thugs in the past is continuing to cause a breakdown in law and order.

These terrorists know that the justice minister and the solicitor general follow the politically correct agenda that will not bring the full force of the law to bear for legal action.

Canadians, including law-abiding aboriginal people, are disgusted that the government has two legal systems in place. Word has been received that other terrorist actions will take place, that a few more hotheads are planning to take over land they do not own and have no claim to, land to which they have no history.

Let the government know that the law-abiding people of Canada are watching, that they want to see all laws enforced. Canadians are watching for the government to quit the politically correct attitude and bring the full force of the law down on all those who threaten Canadians.

Leader Of Action Démocratique Du Québec

[Robert Bertrand, Liberal, Pontiac—Gatineau—Labelle, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the separatist leader of the ADQ has added to the rumours about the PQ Premier's leadership that have been circulating for several days among Quebec separatists.

In his conversation with reporters yesterday, the leader of the ADQ warned that, should the No side win the October 30 referendum, we must expect "a redeployment of Quebec's nationalist forces".

Although tour organizers tried to minimize the importance of that statement and urged reporters not to publish it, the leader of the ADQ nonetheless allowed himself to speculate publicly on the political future of the PQ Premier.

The political ambitions of some separatist leaders must not derail the debate in which Quebecers have been invited to participate.

The only true question is Quebec's separation, to which our answer is No.

Francophones Outside Quebec

[Pierrette Ringuette-Maltais, Liberal, Madawaska—Victoria, NB]

Mr. Speaker, on September 14, the Bloc Quebecois critic on Canadian heritage issued a press release in which she stated that the federal government had failed in its effort to protect and promote French language in Canada.

In making such a statement, the separatist opposition is looking for a way to make people forget that its separation project means that French speaking people outside Quebec will be left to fend for themselves.

We, the Canadian government, really care about that community. Thanks to the concerted efforts of our government and the Ontario government, the 200,000 French speaking residents of eastern Ontario now have the largest French speaking technical college outside Quebec.

This afternoon, the Prime Minister will personally attend the official opening ceremony of the Cité collégiale. This is yet another example of the efforts made by the Canadian government to promote the use of French from coast to coast.

Immigration And Refugee Board

[Val Meredith, Reform, Surrey—White Rock—South Langley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the bleeding heart mentality of the Liberal government has penetrated the Immigration and Refugee Board, appeal division. Its decision to allow Satpal Singh Jhatoo, a convicted murderer, to stay in Canada is reprehensible. The board says the killer is remorseful. It says the killer is unlikely to reoffend, so it let him stay.

It does not matter that he beat a mother of six to death with a baseball bat, doused her body in gasoline and set it on fire. It does not matter that before being sentenced to life for this horrible crime, he was convicted of aggravated assault when he stabbed a man in the neck.

It does not matter that he violated parole. It does not matter that he was caught smoking pot while on parole. It does not matter that he received day parole after only seven years in prison.

It does not matter that the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration has the means and the power to declare this criminal a danger to the public and have him deported. It does not matter to the bleeding heart Liberals, but it does matter to Canadians.

Royal Bank

[Alex Shepherd, Liberal, Durham, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the Royal Bank is our largest financial institution. It is part of the general banking industry that has been requesting increased access to other financial service sectors within our country so that, as it says, it can more effectively compete in a new globalized trading system.

Canadians have paid the price of reduced competition in the securities business and now there is the possibility of encroachment into the area of insurance.

This bank now chooses to display the flag of the United States in some of its branches.

While I understand this is a promotional campaign, Canadians are nevertheless insulted by this intrusion of foreign symbolism into what has been until now a historically Canadian institution. This is especially true since it has been Canadians who have paid the price in many countless ways of supporting it.

Manpower Training

[Lucien Bouchard, Bloc, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, in a unanimous decision, the Société québécoise de développement de la main-d'oeuvre, which brings together business and employee representatives, yesterday denounced federal encroachment, in the form of Bill C-96, in the area of manpower training. This public organization is asking the government to stop setting up new parallel structures and to refrain from further intrusion into Quebec jurisdiction.

I ask the Prime Minister if he acknowledges that, with Bill C-96, Ottawa is acquiring the means to meddle further in manpower training and will therefore increase overlap and waste to the detriment of the unemployed and Quebec's jurisdiction?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, obviously the Leader of the Opposition has not taken the time to read the bill. There are no new powers given to the human resources department, as he may well recall.

The human resources department is an amalgamation of four other departments to provide a more effective delivery of services across Canada. The powers under article 6 were also contained within the existing departments. Over the past year they have allowed us to have almost 50,000 different contracts and agreements with a wide variety of groups, including the province of Quebec and the Government of Quebec in order to better assist Quebec workers to get back to work and to help with training. We have done that in a very co-operative way.

I hope the hon. Leader of the Opposition will not go off on another wild goose chase but will look at the legislation and see there are no new powers. We are simply trying to make a more efficient delivery of what the government wants to do which is help people get back to work.

[Lucien Bouchard, Bloc, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, I would remind the Prime Minister and his minister that the Société québécoise de développement de la main-d'oeuvre is a non partisan organization, which brings together all stakeholders in Quebec, which knows how to read bills, and which saw in this one a dangerous encroachment upon Quebec's jurisdiction.

I would ask the Prime Minister whether he acknowledges that, with this bill, his government is going against the very broad consensus in Quebec in favour of repatriating financial responsibility for manpower training?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Human Resources Development said it clearly a few seconds ago. He said that the bill before Parliament at this moment is aimed at amalgamating government agencies that were under different departments, and the powers delegated to the minister at this moment are exactly the same as those in previous legislation.

At this point, with all the provinces, including Quebec, we are trying to make administrative arrangements to reduce duplication. The minister, in fact, signed a number of agreements with the Government of Quebec over this past summer.

[Lucien Bouchard, Bloc, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, the government cannot minimize what is going on. It is an unprecedented assault on all legislative fronts, which is aimed specifically at giving the federal government the means to meddle once and for all throughout an area of Quebec jurisdiction, messing things up further than they already are at the moment.

I would remind the Prime Minister that the Société québécoise de développement de la main-d'oeuvre's denunciation of the federal bill was unanimous and had the support of Ghislain

Dufour, president of the Conseil du patronat and a member of the no camp.

Does the Prime Minister consider the position taken by his federalist ally a mere caprice as well and will he also sweep him away with a wave of his hand?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, this is quite a pleasant about face. Yesterday, I was being criticized for forcing all businessmen to be on my side. There are some who do not agree with us. That is what democracy is all about.

I am not asking everyone to be on our side. At the moment, we are trying to give the Minister of Human Resources Development the legislative means to ensure programs are better co-ordinated. At present, we are trying with the provinces, including Quebec, to find ways to decentralize and administer them so that Canadians may benefit directly from them.

I do not think our plan is to build a bigger public service in Ottawa. We proved that recently by cutting 45,000 public service positions in the federal government. If we were here to build empires, we would not be laying off 15 per cent of the workforce.

If we can deliver services to people better than we do at the moment, we are always ready to look at the options, but our objective is to ensure that regions in Canada with more unemployed receive essentially the same benefits as regions that are well off.

Our job, as the Government of Canada, is to ensure that well off regions and prosperous citizens are able to help those, across Canada, in the Maritimes as in Quebec, who are, unfortunately, in the difficult situation of being out of work at the moment.

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Human Resources Development.

Yesterday, the Société québécoise de developpement de la main-d'oeuvre strongly denounced Bill C-96, saying: Quebec alone will hold the responsibility for manpower adjustment and trade training policies on its territory and will therefore repatriate the budgets allocated by the federal government for these programs in Quebec.

Will the minister agree that the federal government's plans confer upon it the possibility of entering directly into an agreement with any individual or organization of its choice, thereby turning its back on the consensus of the partners making up the SQDM and their priorities and on the unemployed of Quebec?