Debates of Nov. 2nd, 1995

Welfare

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, if the minister refers to 20,000 more people on welfare as small minutiae, details and figures, in a so-called period of prosperity, at a time the government is about to cut welfare subsidies in the Canada social transfer, what will it be like in the next recession? This is unacceptable.

Will the minister finally admit that further draconian cuts he is about to make in unemployment insurance will put even more families on welfare and make the budgetary problems of the Quebec government even worse?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, contrary to what the hon. member and other members of the Bloc and the Parti Quebecois have been trying to say to the people of Quebec in a really quite deliberate effort to give out misinformation, I will tell the hon. member that one of the most important elements we are putting together as part of the new

unemployment insurance package is what the Prime Minister talked about in his speech last night. He said that we will provide basic protection for families on low income with children. It is something we have been talking about in this country for a long time, and we intend to do it.

I would say to the hon. member that rather than arguing old arguments she should be putting her attention now to helping govern this country better so we can really help poor people, rather than simply trying to break up this country. That is the best way of providing security and civility.

Sri Lanka

[Beryl Gaffney, Liberal, Nepean, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the secretary of state for foreign affairs.

Canadians are concerned about the Sri Lankan government's current major military offensive on the people of the Jaffna Peninsula. The civil war and massive attack is resulting in a serious threat to the civilian Tamil population and the further displacement of large numbers of people.

Can the secretary tell the House what role Canada is playing to stop this bloodshed?

[Raymond Chan, Liberal, Secretary of State (Asia-Pacific)]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to take this moment to pay tribute to our ambassador to China, who passed away Tuesday. Ambassador John Paynter served Canada well, both in India and in China. We offer our condolences to his wife Inga and his three children.

To answer the hon. member's question, indeed we are very concerned about the situation in Sri Lanka. This summer I personally travelled to that country on a fact finding mission. During that trip I told the President of Sri Lanka that we were disappointed at the unilateral resumption of hostility in Sri Lanka by the LTTE on April 19 after 14 weeks of peace. However, at the same time we also expressed our concern to the government that a military solution was not an option in Sri Lanka. We continue to urge the government and the LTTE to resume negotiations for a peaceful solution.

Canada has been saddened at the continuation and escalation of the conflicts in Sri Lanka and with the large loss of life. Canada totally condemns the slaughter of innocent persons, both Tamil and Sinhalese, in Sri Lanka in recent days. This slaughter is not helping the situation.

Canada Pension Plan

[Jan Brown, Reform, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the Minister for Human Resources Development admitted that the Canada pension plan is unsustainable. In response, he announced another tax grab. He is raising payroll taxes despite the fact that in his budget the Minister of Finance stated that payroll taxes are a cancer on job creation.

How high is the government planning to raise payroll taxes to prop up a system facing collapse?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, as the hon. member knows, the whole question of the financing of the Canada pension plan is under review.

We will be tabling in the House before the end of the year a paper that will put forward a series of recommendations. It is an area that must be worked out with the provinces. It is a joint sharing of responsibility to ensure that the tens of millions of Canadians who rely upon the Canada pension plan, which is a pooled sharing fund, will be able to sustain it and be able to give absolute certainty and surety to not only this generation of pension holders but future generations that the Canada pension plan will provide a very stable foundation for their security in old age.

[Jan Brown, Reform, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, that last comment is not even worth responding to. The system is facing collapse by the year 2010.

Our plans for renewing the Canada pension plan include protecting seniors' benefits without raising payroll taxes. These are the kinds of positive changes Reform is offering in its new confederation.

Is the Minister of Human Resources Development prepared to roll back this tax increase and forget this obscene attack on jobs?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member says she does not want to comment on the program that has been in place for several decades helping provide protection. In fact the hon. member tabled a report from the Reform Party that would totally eviscerate any kind of security for disabled people, for survivors with children, for seniors, and which would eliminate all kinds of payments for low income Canadians.

This member is the authoress of a program that would totally undermine the public pension plan of Canada.

Canadian Wheat Board

[Len Taylor, NDP, The Battlefords—Meadow Lake, SK]

Mr. Speaker, again today prairie farmers are attempting to freelance grain sales into the United States, increasing trade tension with the United States and risking the imposition of yet another cap on sales.

Is the minister of agriculture prepared to say today that he will not let Canada run the risk of being shut out of the U.S. market by telling Canadians that he is prepared to ensure the enforcement of single desk selling through the Canadian Wheat Board?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Mr. Speaker, the law of Canada with respect to the powers and authorities of the Canadian Wheat Board is very clear. That law has been on the books of this country for a long time, and by and large that law has been respected. It ought to be respected.

Those who hold contrary views and wish to see some changes in the legal system that presently exists can bring their views forward and let those views be debated and discussed. We have established a procedure for that to occur.

I would advise those who deliberately violate the law that they are in no way advancing their own case. They are in fact in the process of undermining democracy. Beyond the point of the illegal nature of their actions, they are also raising the spectre of a very serious trade problem with the United States, which could undermine the incomes and the livelihoods of all Canadian farmers.

I would carefully advise those who contemplate violations of the law that they ought to respect the law, because illegal activity does not accomplish anything. Second, they are running the risk of very serious trade repercussions.

[The Speaker]

My colleagues, this brings question period to an end.

I have notice of a question of privilege and also three or four points of order that I will hear.

Privilege

[The Speaker]

The Leader of the Opposition is rising on a question of privilege. Could he tell me whether it concerns something that happened during Question Period?

[Lucien Bouchard, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Yes, Mr. Speaker.

[The Speaker]

The Leader of the Opposition, on a question of privilege.

[Lucien Bouchard, Bloc, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, just now everyone heard the Deputy Prime Minister say I did not dissociate myself from the comments made by Mr. Parizeau on the night of the referendum. In fact, the very next day in a media scrum here in the lobby of the House of Commons, I publicly and clearly dissociated myself from his comments. I also pointed out that those who voted in the referendum on Monday were all Quebecers, that we are still all Quebecers and that no distinction should be made between the votes cast.

My statement was brought to the attention of the Deputy Prime Minister earlier today, twice in fact, by two Bloc members, but she refused to withdraw her accusation.

What she said implies that, by remaining silent, I approved of and agreed with what Mr. Parizeau said. This constitutes a violation of my rights as a parliamentarian and an attack on my reputation.

In the name of parliamentary democracy, I would ask you to discuss this with the Deputy Prime Minister and give her one last chance to do the right thing by asking her to withdraw what she said.

[The Speaker]

My dear colleagues, what the Leader of the Opposition heard or did not hear may be very unpleasant and he may feel aggrieved. However, in my opinion, what someone said or did not say constitutes not a question of privilege but debate. That is my decision.

Instead of seeking to continue what is in fact a debate, my decision is that this is not a question of privilege.

I have a point of order. The hon. whip of the Reform Party.

Points Of Order

[Bob Ringma, Reform, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I may need your help on this. The closest I can get in Beauchesne's is perhaps citation 481(e). The point is this. The Deputy Prime Minister today made two deliberate falsehoods: one concerning, alleging-

[The Speaker]

I address myself, of course, directly to the whip of the Reform Party.

My colleague, the words that you have used that one of our members made a deliberate falsehood is not acceptable and I would like you to withdraw it.

[Bob Ringma, Reform, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I withdraw the words deliberate falsehood, although I believe it.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

I put it to you squarely, my colleague. Will you withdraw, yes or no?

[Bob Ringma, Reform, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Yes, Mr. Speaker, I will withdraw the word falsehood.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

I accept the withdrawal completely, without explanation. I am going to let that sit there.

If the hon. member has a point of order, I would like him to put it to me forthwith.

[Bob Ringma, Reform, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my point of order is that there were two wrong statements made in the House this afternoon.

One accused the Reform Party of deliberately having a policy of not supporting the parade in Montreal and the other was a statement that the Reform Party deliberately wanted the yes side to win.

Those two statements are totally erroneous.