Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. member for his question. I recognize that he has agreed with some of the things we have said, as he did in the special joint committee.
I emphasize that the changes I have just related to him and to the House are not yet a year old. I assure him from the bottom of my heart that the name of the game is what is the most cost effective way of doing business. He is right in pointing out that we have done things differently depending on the kind of contract we have. However, that points out the flexibility in the system.
We no longer have to go through a system of hoops, milestones and baggage difficulties because it says so in the manual. It is done differently depending on which is the best way to do it and what is the most cost effective way of doing it.
The best example I could give the hon. member for Charlesbourg is to tell him about one area of technology, which I know he understands, so I will relate it to him very briefly.
In 1985 the Canadian navy had less than 350,000 lines of code. I am talking about software now. A decade later the number of lines of code in software in the computer and command control systems and technology transfer systems has increased by a factor of 30. It has just under 10 million lines of code now.
The member knows what that means with respect to software managers, the number of people who work in the software production areas and who are involved in maintenance and producing programs.
Different ways have to be found to do this. Some work may have to be contracted out as was done in one case. The member alluded to the case of Paramax. I think he was satisfied with the number of witnesses that were heard who indicated the difficulties we had with that and in other areas. That is one area to which I would like to respond.
However, this system is still evolving. The examples that he used indicate that we are prepared to do things differently and hopefully in the right manner. We may not get it right 100 per cent of the time, which is always the case when we are making a change. But we know that we have the major thrust right.
I want to respond to comments the hon. member made earlier and to clarify, in case there is any doubt in his mind, with respect to the submarines. He sat on the special joint committee. I am not going to read the recommendation because it is very clear. I can almost do it verbatim. The special joint committee said that, reluctantly, as much as it believes Canada needs a third dimension in surveillance of the oceans, which are the same size as the country, a submarine capability is needed to replace the aging submarines now. They are at the end of the line.
Pretty soon the capability to have people serve in submarines will be lost because the submarines will be gone. Therefore the capability will go with it. The report said, reluctantly, that Canada could not afford to spend the $5 billion needed to get four new submarines. However it did say that because Canada is a maritime country and because it really needs this third dimension to see beneath the surface as well as on and above the water, that if there was an opportunity to buy four submarines that were fairly modern, advantage should be taken of that.
As it turned out the British navy had retired its new submarines, the Upholder class. They are not old submarines. One of them has never been used. How can Canadian content be put into an opportunity buy? The committee agreed and said that its members did not specify a particular country. As it turns out it was the Upholder class in Britain, but it could have been other classes. It was not specified. The committee members did not restrict themselves. They said: "If we can get something at a bargain price that somebody else does not need any more, then buy it". It is like a major capital equipment garage sale. I wanted to clarify that.