Debates of Nov. 22nd, 1995

Taxation

[John Williams, Reform, St. Albert, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the minister is asleep, like most of the others.

The government squeezed another $7.3 billion out of Canadians in the last fiscal year. It is obvious the government intends to balance the budget through increase taxation, not cuts in spending. Last year it collected $7.3 billion more in taxes while it reduced the deficit by only $4.5 billion.

Will the minister admit he does not have a tax cutting policy that works or a taxation collection policy that works, and that he does not know how he will fix either of them?

[David Anderson, Liberal, Minister of National Revenue]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member has correctly pointed out the tax system is generating more revenue. The basic reason is the confidence the business community has in the Minister of Finance. However, if I may modestly add, another reason is that Revenue Canada is working more effectively than ever before.

New developments in technology and the information highway are particularly difficult for Reformers to understand. We must still tell them the old system of inefficiency, time consuming as it was, which cost the taxpayer money and which led to more abuse and fraud, is not the way we will be going in the future.

We have over the last two years picked up $7 billion through our enforcement programs. We are doing this in a manner which recognizes that the client, the ordinary Canadian taxpayer, is in almost every case, at least 96 per cent, an honest citizen.

The approach of the opposition-

Manpower Training

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, if the Prime Minister does not listen to Radio-Canada, one wonders how he can criticize the network.

My question is directed to the Minister of Human Resources Development. In his report released yesterday, the auditor general

made it clear that manpower training programs are poorly adapted to the requirements of Canadian businesses.

Would the minister agree that the auditor general's harsh assessment of federal manpower training programs is further evidence it is high time the federal government withdrew altogether from manpower training and left this up to the provinces?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, to set the record straight, I listen to CBC radio.

The auditor general said something we have been saying for the past two years: that we have to substantially revamp training programs to ensure that the private sector takes far more responsibility, invests far more of its dollars to help young people in particular get jobs, and that people in the existing workforce upgrade and get the kinds of skills required within the area.

Since 1993, as we have begun to make the changes the auditor general observed, we have been able to leverage over 77 million additional dollars from the private sector for training young people. It shows that while the auditor general was observing what should be done we were already doing it.

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, will the minister stop being so stubborn and acknowledge that, if manpower training programs are to reflect the requirements of the private sector in terms of training and jobs, the minister should respond to a consensus in Quebec among government, business, unions and interest groups, all of whom want to see responsibility for manpower training patriated to Quebec?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, it is unfortunate the hon. member did not do her homework before she asked the question. If she had, she would know that in July 1994 we signed an agreement with the province of Quebec, with the SQDM, in which we have a basic agreement and partnership on the supply of training. The SQDM advises on labour market demands, approves course selection, identifies qualified training institutions, determines course curriculum, confirms that training responds to skills. We are working in partnership with the SQDM to make sure we get full dollar.

I agree that we have to go beyond that. That is why in the reform we are developing we intend to give far more space to the provinces in the training area so they can make those choices and at the same ensure that clients under the unemployment insurance program are properly and effectively served and getting back to work.

Regional Development

[Jim Abbott, Reform, Kootenay East, BC]

Mr. Speaker, five years ago the Treasury Board approved a policy to make all government contributions to businesses repayable. In the finance minister's 1995 budget speech he confirmed that policy. Yet at FEDNOR only 92 per cent, at ACOA 83 per cent, and in his own FORD-Q only 76 per cent of the loans are being made repayable.

Why is the finance minister not enforcing his own guidelines within cabinet?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, in all regional agencies a series of loans were outstanding that are in the process of running. The policy applied to new loans. There was to be a phase in process; one was not to impose this immediately so that business would be able to adjust.

When one looks at those loans within the regional agencies, it is the commercial loans that are repayable. As well, the regional agencies have activities in non profit making areas, structural areas that may well help the economy or a particular region. Those are not repayable.

[Jim Abbott, Reform, Kootenay East, BC]

Mr. Speaker, despite the minister's fine words there is no real accounting in regional development. I point to his department. Over a quarter of the loans approved by his department did not even need government assistance in the first place, according to the auditor general's report. Those approvals amounted to $65 million for FORD-Q.

Will the minister commit today to stop this hemorrhaging of Canadians' hard earned tax dollars? In other words will he do his job?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, the vast majority of the criticisms levelled by the auditor general as far as the regional agencies were concerned were levelled in terms of activities that took place prior to the election of the government.

A number of those criticisms were recognized by the individual ministers when they took office. It is as a result of the recognition of those criticisms that the fundamental changes in all the agencies have taken place, changes which have gone a long way to rectify the criticisms the member has just brought forward.

Cp Rail

[Paul Mercier, Bloc, Blainville—Deux-Montagnes, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Prime Minister.

In addition to the loss of 710 jobs in Montreal, CP Rail's decision to move its headquarters will further diminish the city's position within Canada's transportation sector. The decision to move CP headquarters is a direct result of federal railway policies which, thanks to enormous subsidies and protected branch lines, have caused a shift in railway activity to Western Canada.

What does the Prime Minister intend to do to compensate for the jobs lost in Montreal as a direct result of federal policies that provide massive subsidies for the railways in Western Canada?

[Joe Fontana, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member, who is a member of the Standing Committee on Transport, will have a great opportunity for his party to get on the record to help this government build an efficient and affordable railway system in the country.

If he wants to ensure that we have good transportation he will support the government's Bill C-101, which will make it possible in Quebec and across the country to build short line railways and make sure that customers and shippers can move their goods in an efficient and affordable manner so that the country can continue to build on the export business.

What the Bloc Quebecois can do for the country is help us build a great transportation system.

[Paul Mercier, Bloc, Blainville—Deux-Montagnes, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question was directed to the Prime Minister, so I expected a member of the government to reply.

The Prime Minister said he wanted to deal with the real problems-

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

My dear colleagues, as you know, when questions are put in the House, anyone on the government side may answer the question. I would ask the hon. member to put please his question right away.

[Paul Mercier, Bloc, Blainville—Deux-Montagnes, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I meant a member of cabinet.

The Prime Minister said he wanted to deal with the real problems, but the federal government is causing these problems with its discriminatory treatment of Montreal.

Now that CP Rail is leaving Montreal and Canadian Airlines International has stopped its operations at Mirabel, another consequence of railway policies, when is the Prime Minister going to take steps to make Montreal the focus of the transportation sector, which it has always been until now?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, it is all very well for the Bloc Quebecois to keep blaming the government, but perhaps they should take a good look in the mirror. Considering the kind of climate they created in Quebec during the past few years and the intolerance they have often shown towards minorities in Quebec, it is hardly surprising that right now, some people want to get out of Montreal.

Vietnam

[Ted McWhinney, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Foreign Affairs.

On October 4 I asked the Minister of Foreign Affairs to raise with the Vietnamese government the case of nine religious, academic and cultural leaders then in prison in Vietnam. I am happy to say that two of these prisoners have now been released and they have arrived in North America.

Could the minister assure the House that he would continue the policy of quiet diplomacy on behalf of the remaining members of the group still in prison?

[Raymond Chan, Liberal, Secretary of State (Asia-Pacific)]

Mr. Speaker, I am glad to respond to the hon. member that our foreign affairs minister was in Vietnam recently and made representations to his Vietnamese counterpart, the foreign affairs minister of Vietnam, and to the Prime Minister of Vietnam to encourage greater respect for human rights.

We are also seeking Vietnamese concurrence for a visit to Vietnam by Canadian Human Rights Commissioner Max Yalden to further develop dialogue in that area. Canada continues to voice concerns about the human rights situation in Vietnam in international fora.

Canadian Broadcasting Corporation

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Canadian Heritage has instructed the president of the

CBC to come up with $350 million in spending cuts. Today he is announcing that he will be $120 million short in that department. There is no guarantee that the mandate committee report at the end of the month will give the president the scope to make the cuts he needs to make.

Will the Minister of Canadian Heritage show some leadership for a change and untie the hands of the president of the CBC and allow him to go ahead and make some fundamental cuts to the CBC, including allowing private broadcasters to start to deliver some of the services the CBC currently delivers?

[Michel Dupuy, Liberal, Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Speaker, our colleague should be aware that today the president of the CBC announced very important re-engineering within the CBC. This is in keeping with reduction of the deficit and reduction of budgets. He has the support of the government in his effort to turn the CBC into a modern, forward looking agency.

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I just explained that to the minister. I am glad he was listening so carefully. The problem is he is $120 million short. Surely the minister picked that up when he read the newspaper this morning.

The CBC is at a watershed today. Will the minister show some leadership and give the president of the CBC the mandate he needs to go ahead and make further cuts so he can achieve the $120 million in savings and the scope he needs to fundamentally rethink the CBC, including allowing private broadcasters to play a larger role in delivering those services?

[Michel Dupuy, Liberal, Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Speaker, it is precisely to enable the president of the CBC to rethink the CBC that the government has formed a committee to examine the mandate. The mandate is the heart of the CBC. The reports of the mandate committee will be available at the end of this month. In the meantime, our colleagues may hold their breath.

Information Highway

[Pierre De Savoye, Bloc, Portneuf, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is also for the Minister of Canadian Heritage.

Recently, the Information Highway Advisory Council tabled its final report. This report completely trivializes Quebec culture, since it calls for an information highway serving a single so-called Canadian identity and culture. As well, various elements of this report are likely to result in further federal intrusion into areas in which Quebec is already fully exercising its responsibilities, health and education for instance.

Does the minister commit to rejecting these recommendations, which invite the federal government to interfere in areas that are exclusively Quebec's jurisdiction, such as health and education?

[Michel Dupuy, Liberal, Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Speaker, a committee has indeed made recommendations. I would like to point out to my colleague that, among the recommendations made by one of the working groups created by that committee, there are some that are content-related, that is to say culture and all of those elements which may make up content. This is the specific area I shall address.

We will be bringing forward a series of recommendations following up on the work of these committees and of the advisory council, and I trust that our colleague will be able to see that our decisions will be judicious ones and will result in linking Canada up to the world information highway.