Debates of Nov. 22nd, 1995

[The Speaker]

We are beginning a new tradition today which has been decided in committee and by order of the House. I shall now recognize the hon. member for Beaver River to lead the House in the singing of the national anthem.

[Editor's Note: Whereupon members sang the national anthem.]

The Late Gary Herrema

[Alex Shepherd, Liberal, Durham, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it is with sorrow that I report on the passing on Monday of Gary Herrema, chair of the regional municipality of Durham.

Mr. Herrema, who was a long time resident and farm operator in Uxbridge, was first elected in 1969 as councillor for what was then Scott township. As a testament to his leadership abilities, Gary Herrema became Durham regional chair in 1980 and remained in that position until his death just this last Monday.

Durham, for the edification of the House, represents 425,000 people.

I am proud to note that not only was Gary Herrema a Liberal candidate in the 1984 federal election, he was also an active and long time supporter of his community, of Parliament and of Canada.

Today, Durham residents and their fellow Canadians are saddened by the loss of Gary Herrema. On their behalf, I convey my heartfelt sympathy to his wife, Helen, and to his family.

Gun Control

[Garry Breitkreuz, Reform, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Mr. Speaker, the senators held hearings in western Canada on Bill C-68 giving many Canadians the only chance they had to be heard.

The senators heard testimony from retired town councillor Jim Barker in Dauphin, Manitoba. He estimated that by the year 2003 the town of Dauphin will have to hire two more RCMP constables and two police clerks to handle the additional workload to implement the Liberal government's flawed firearm registration scheme.

Barker testified: "The ratepayers of this town will have to budget a minimum expenditure increase of $200,000 per year. It is interesting to note that if these costs are at or near average, then the total cost to the lower levels of government in Canada for firearms registration would be around $540 million per year".

This new evidence had never been heard by Parliament before and justified the senators' decision to take their hearings on the road. Why is it that senators in Ontario, Quebec and Atlantic Canada did not give their citizens the same opportunity to be heard as voters in the west?

Highway 104

[Elsie Wayne, Progressive Conservative, Saint John, NB]

Mr. Speaker, thanks to the hon. member of the Conservative Party from Sherbrooke who wrote to the auditor general, the death valley diversion in Nova Scotia became a national issue.

In turn, the auditor general is very critical of the government for diverting $26 million from a federal-provincial agreement for work on a dangerous stretch of the Trans-Canada Highway to a tourist trail in the riding of the minister of public works.

The auditor general noted in his report that "the agreement assigns a duty of project review and approval but in this case, such a review was pre-empted by ministers who presented the matter as a fait accompli to officials who, in the circumstances, could only implement the decision".

Although they were forced to reverse their decision in August, upgrades to death valley will still be paid for by toll fees.

The public works minister, agreeing with the leader of the third party, once said the province was showing real leadership by making people pay user fees for their highways. The people of Nova Scotia and my party certainly do not feel that way.

Human Rights

[Colleen Beaumier, Liberal, Brampton, ON]

Mr. Speaker, Canada has a long tradition of active involvement within the UN field of human rights. This tradition started with the late John Humphrey, one of the architects of the international bill of rights and the first director of the UN human rights division.

Canada continues to play a prominent role in promoting universal human rights and in strengthening international human rights mechanisms.

Since the establishment of the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights in 1993, Canada has sought to integrate the activities of the high commissioner and other human rights institutions into the UN's political, security and developmental activities and into the early warning and preventive work of the organization. This is an indication of Canada's overall emphasis on addressing root causes of instability which is consistent with the vision UN Secretary-General Boutros Boutros-Ghali outlined in his "Agenda for Peace".

As we welcome the UN Secretary-General to our nation's capital, let us reaffirm Canada's commitment to promote human rights in the community of nations and to strengthen the United Nations.

Lincoln And Welland Regiment

[Walt Lastewka, Liberal, St. Catharines, ON]

Mr. Speaker, members of the Lincoln and Welland Regiment from St. Catharines have recently received two additional and long overdue battle honours from World War II.

The medals are in honour of the exceptional conduct and courage of the members of the Lincoln and Welland Regiment while part of the 10th Infantry Brigade of the Canadian 4th Armoured Division during battles in Kustan Canal and Bad-Zwisch, Germany in April 1945.

Colonel Don Muir, a major in command of a rifle battalion during both battles, noted that fighting was very intense in those last weeks of the war. Roy Adams, the regiment's president and also a veteran of those battles noted that his only regret is that many of the men who helped them earn these honours have passed away.

I would just like to say how proud I am and all Canadians are of our veterans. Their dedication, discipline and sacrifice made an allied victory possible in the second world war.

Congratulations to the Lincoln and Welland Regiment on this well earned, overdue honour.

Agriculture

[Allan Kerpan, Reform, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre, SK]

Mr. Speaker, western Canadian farmers are frustrated by the manner in which the WGTA payout is being handled. The lack of direction in providing formulas for sharing of the payment by landowner and tenant producer has caused confusion, tension and in many cases bitterness at the farm gate. Farmers who have financial agreements with the Farm Credit Corporation are particularly upset with its handling of the WGTA payout.

The minister instructed the FCC in March 1995 to pass along the benefit to producers. That benefit has mysteriously shrunk over the last eight months to a whopping 25 per cent of the benefit. Their questionable rationale was that holding back 75 per cent of the benefit would result in lower lease and sale agreements. The fact is the Farm Credit Corporation lease agreements and buyback asking prices have actually increased by as much as 20 per cent.

Farmers are demanding that the agriculture minister and the Farm Credit Corporation honour their original commitment to the producers of prairie grain.

Canadian Broadcasting Corporation

[Jean-Guy Chrétien, Bloc, Frontenac, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister's thinly disguised threats to the CBC, which he accuses of not fulfilling its mandate as a promoter of Canadian unity, are an attack on the freedom of the press.

It is therefore not surprising that the Fédération professionnelle des journalistes du Québec has launched a petition aimed at preserving the independence of that crown corporation. The FPJQ feels that the Prime Minister has questioned the corporation's independence from the government.

For the Bloc members, there is nothing ambiguous about the message between the lines of what has been said by the Prime Minister, the Deputy Prime Minister and the minister of fisheries: the CBC is vulnerable to government pressure.

Now one wonders whether the scope of the budget cuts is not a form of reprisal by the Prime Minister, who has never accepted the change in the CBC's mandate and sees it as nothing more than a propaganda organ.

Leader Of The Bloc Quebecois

[Eleni Bakopanos, Liberal, Saint-Denis, QC]

Mr. Speaker, since the election of the Parti Quebecois in September 1994, the people

of Quebec have been held hostage by a handful of power hungry politicians with nothing better to do than to govern by referendum.

Rather than taking advantage of his first press conference to differentiate himself from his predecessor, the leader of the Bloc chose to follow in his footsteps, announcing right off the bat his intention to sign no new constitutional agreement with Canada and to prepare for another referendum on Quebec separation.

My constituents in Saint-Denis need jobs and a stronger guarantee of security for themselves and their children. And it is certainly not by scaring away investors, as the PQ has done for the past year or more, that the leader of the Bloc will manage to reduce unemployment in Quebec.

The people have waited too long. It is high time now for the Parti Quebecois to finally put "their hearts in their work".

Reform Party Of Canada

[Brenda Chamberlain, Liberal, Guelph—Wellington, ON]

Mr. Speaker, in the 52 ridings the Reformers won, Reformers outspent Liberal candidates by almost half a million dollars.

That is right. The party that likes to point fingers at others about spending spent over $2.2 million to win its seats. Now, two years after having won those seats, Reformers have told the media they are going to sit in them less. That is right. They spent almost $43,000 a seat and they have said that Ottawa costs too much and they do not like it here.

We have lots of expensive seats on the Reform side but no one wants to fill them. Perhaps it is time for us to have a seat sale.

Political Party Agendas

[Harold Culbert, Liberal, Carleton—Charlotte, NB]

Mr. Speaker, I rise in the House today to express serious concerns.

In this House there is a separatist party that is quite open about its desire to break up Canada. We may not like its beliefs but its mandate is clear.

However, we have another party, the Reform Party, that does not like social programs, does not like our health care program, does not like the Canada pension plan and criticizes every attempt to end duplication. Time and time again that party has shown its contempt for Atlantic Canada. Now it says it will be the voice to represent Atlantic Canadians. I tell this House that Atlantic Canadians will not support a party that cannot decide what to support itself.

The Liberal Party agenda has always been clear. The Liberal government believes that all Canadians are born equal and deserve equal rights. We believe in offering a hand up to those in need and we continue to work night and day to rebuild an economy to assure that all Canadians have an opportunity for employment.

Atlantic Canada

[Diane Ablonczy, Reform, Calgary North, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the Liberal old federalists in Atlantic Canada continue to fail people in the region. Their short term patronage ridden band-aid solutions are not working.

The Liberal solution to unemployment in Cape Breton is simply to airlift people out to Ontario. They cling to the belief that bureaucrats and politicians should have all the say in how regional development resources are spent. They ridicule Reform's proposal to give citizens at the provincial and community levels the tools needed to develop self-reliance and a strong economic future.

Rather than make the operations of the fisheries department more efficient, the Liberals are now imposing enormous tax increases on fishers and ports users. It is no wonder most Newfoundland MPs do not live or pay taxes there.

It is clear that this government has neither a workable short range or long term vision for the Atlantic provinces. Reform will continue to listen to the needs and aspirations of Atlantic Canadians.

Bosnia

[Roger Pomerleau, Bloc, Anjou—Rivière-Des-Prairies, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Bloc Quebecois welcomes the historic peace accord signed yesterday in Dayton, Ohio by the leaders of Bosnia, Croatia and Serbia. After four years of multilateral efforts to restore peace in the former Yugoslavia and end a bloody war that has claimed more than 250,000 lives, today there is hope that this accord will lead to a lasting peace.

Enormous challenges remain, however, and the international community will be asked to continue to provide not only humanitarian aid but also a 60,000 strong implementation force through NATO. This accord demonstrates that we were right to stay over there to protect the civilian population and take part in peacekeeping operations. We also believe we have a duty to take an active part in the peace process and the reconstruction which is about to begin.

Railways

[Bill Blaikie, NDP, Winnipeg—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Speaker, recently constituents who work at CP Rail and VIA came to me about safety concerns they have about the way the recent collective agreements are being interpreted and enforced.

Canadian Pacific locomotive engineers are concerned about what is called turnaround combination service. VIA running crews are likewise being made to work when in previous times they could have booked rest without penalty.

Making tired people drive trains is not progress; it is tempting fate in the name of a false bottom line. I urge the Minister of Transport to look into the situation and tell CP and VIA to smarten up for the sake of the employees and in the interests of public safety.

Atlantic Canada

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to reply to the rants of the Reform member for Vegreville about the political injustice he perceives exists in Atlantic Canada and specifically in P.E.I.

I take particular exception to the member's statement that "Islanders are forced to endure political oppression". Nothing could be further from the truth.

The only oppression that would occur in the Atlantic region would be if the Reform Party's policies of cutting the public health care system and Americanizing existing social programs were imposed on the people. I was shocked at the unfounded accusation of the member for Vegreville with respect to the political atmosphere on P.E.I.

Once again, the Reform Party is exemplifying its pathetic policies of gaining cheap party support through divisiveness not only within the country as it did during the referendum but now within regions.

Shame to the member for Vegreville for unfounded accusations that can only be called cheap political fearmongering.

National Patriots Day

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Verchères, QC]

Mr. Speaker, tomorrow on national patriots day, Quebecers will pay tribute to those men and women who more than 150 years ago decided to defend and promote values which today are often taken for granted: freedom and democracy. It is no coincidence that November 23 was chosen by the National Assembly as the day on which we honour the memory of those who fought for civil and political freedoms as well as their national freedom.

On November 23, 1837, the Patriotes defeated British troops at Saint-Denis-sur-Richelieu, although the British outnumbered them and were better equipped. About a year ago, this House adopted a motion officially recognizing the historic contribution of the Patriotes to the establishment of democratic and responsible institutions. However, this government has taken no concrete action to make this recognition effective. I hope the government will acknowledge the will of the House and take appropriate action without delay.

Atlantic Canada

[Ron MacDonald, Liberal, Dartmouth, NS]

Mr. Speaker, on Monday in a particularly hallucinogenic episode the member for Vegreville visualized himself and his party as the deliverers of freedom and democracy for the poor oppressed souls in Atlantic Canada.

His reference to the politically oppressed people of P.E.I. was just the latest and greatest example of why the Reform Party was not, is not and will never be anything but a bizarre footnote in the history of a short lived, radical, ideological party.

The Reform Party should have no illusions about sucking in the good people of Atlantic Canada. The people of Prince Edward Island and the Atlantic provinces have shown great maturity in the decisions they have made through the political process.

The statements made on Monday by the hon. member for Vegreville and in the past by those from his party only strengthen the case that the people of Atlantic Canada made the right decision on October 25, 1993 by completely rejecting the Reform Party and giving a resounding vote of support to the Prime Minister and the Liberal Party, the only national party that speaks for Atlantic Canadians.

The Constitution

[Lucien Bouchard, Bloc, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, in the final stretch of the referendum campaign, the Prime Minister made a commitment to respond to Quebecers' desire for change. In the days following the referendum, the government set up two committees. One, chaired by the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs, is to propose changes to the federal system by Christmastime. Yesterday, outside the House, the government

leader postponed the tabling of the committees' proposals by several months.

My question is for the Prime Minister. Are we to understand that the extension of the deadlines of the ministerial committee on constitutional change announced yesterday by the Prime Minister means he has been unable to rally the premiers of English Canada round a proposal for constitutional change?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, first let me say we are very sorry to see the Leader of the Opposition leave the federal scene.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Saint-Maurice, QC]

Over the past two years I have really enjoyed meeting him daily and answering his questions. I therefore wish him all the luck in the task he set for himself yesterday of dealing with Quebec's real problems-good management and putting Quebec's public finances in order. Obviously, someone else will be here across the way, in a few months.

However, to answer the hon. member's question, first, we have always said we were prepared to make changes. But we never promised to make constitutional changes, particularly since I promised during the referendum campaign that I would make no constitutional changes and that the House would not debate constitutional change if the Government of Quebec did not approve.

Yesterday, I got an answer from the Leader of the Opposition, who said he absolutely did not want any constitutional change. Therefore I am in no hurry, since he does not want any, and we said would not make any without their support.

However, some administrative changes may be made. There are signs of willingness on the part of the federal government, which could be debated and voted on in the House. I said that we would proceed with certain items between now and Christmas and I asked the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs and his committee to report back by Christmas. We are not talking about several months. This is November 22, and in a month from now it will be three days before Christmas. So we are not talking about months, but weeks, Mr. Speaker.

[Lucien Bouchard, Bloc, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, I note the profound sadness overcoming the Prime Minister at the prospect of my leaving the House of Commons, should the members of the Parti Quebecois so wish it. But he should not worry: I will not be far away.

I listened carefully to the Prime Minister's response on the changes he is not planning to make any more. Am I wrong, or did the Prime Minister say that he is backing down on the promise of constitutional change he made less than a month ago, that he is contemplating merely minor administrative changes and that his committee will now be called the ministerial committee on administrative change?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition has gone back to his old habits of commenting on what we have said. He made absolutely gratuitous statements during the referendum, and we will not let him get away with it any more.

I never said we were going to change the Constitution. He should read the speech I gave. I said we were going to make changes to the federation, constitutional changes, if necessary, but I never said they were going to be constitutional. I also said there would be no constitutional change without Quebec's approval. The Leader of the Opposition said yesterday he did not want any. He wants to remain a separatist-good for him. So we will bear this in mind, we will do what has to be done to keep the federation running and we will get on with the real problems, as the Leader of the Opposition put it, we will be concerned with job creation, good government and the deficit problems of both the federal and the provincial governments.

If the Leader of the Opposition really wants to work on these problems, we are prepared to co-operate with him.

[Lucien Bouchard, Bloc, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, what a sorry about-face. If I ever do go to Quebec City, I will tell Mr. Johnson not to hold his breath for the changes he is expecting from the Prime Minister.

Should we conclude, and this question is clear-if there is one thing I have learned in this House, it is how to answer questions-are we to conclude that, as of today, less than a month after the referendum, after the speech we all heard in which the Prime Minister promised Quebec everything anyone could ever want after the referendum campaign, are we to understand that he is reneging on these changes he made hastily at the time and that he is going back to his old strategy of putting English Canada to sleep and offering Quebec nothing?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, what I said in my speech was very simple. I said that my party and I had been, are currently and would be in favour of a distinct society for Quebec, something the Leader of the Opposition and his party fought against in the Charlottetown accord.

Furthermore, during the referendum, he criticized us for not having supported that, when they voted against it in the Charlottetown referendum and all the PQ members voted against the Meech Lake accord in the National Assembly. We are still in favour of a distinct society, as we indicated in Charlottetown and in this House. In order to add it to the Constitution, we require the approval of the Government of Quebec. The Leader of the Opposition has said he

does not want it written into the Constitution. So we will not do it against the wishes of Quebec.

Secondly, I said that we did not want any constitutional changes without the agreement of the Government of Quebec or the people of Quebec, as has happened in the past. Sometimes referendums can be held. Here again, we cannot act without the approval of Quebec. We can, however, impose certain restrictions on ourselves, if we wish. This is perhaps what we will do.

As for sharing responsibilities, the minister responsible has signed nine agreements with the provinces to improve the system and put an end to duplication. The current PQ government is not interested in such an agreement. I hope that, as government leader, the Leader of the Opposition will make good management a priority and help us determine which jurisdictions are in competition so we can ensure that taxpayers in Quebec as in the other provinces receive the most for the taxes they pay annually to the two levels of government.