Debates of Dec. 1st, 1995

Liberation Of Holland

[Rex Crawford, Liberal, Kent, ON]

Mr. Speaker, a monument erected this remembrance week in Chatham's Legion Memorial Gardens is a constant reminder of how lucky we are to be Canadians.

More than 500 veterans and Kent's Dutch community paid tribute to the Canadian soldiers who fought and died to liberate Holland 50 years ago.

We can never take our freedom for granted. It is important that future generations realize how fortunate we are in Canada. Our soldiers gave their lives, the supreme sacrifice, so each of us could speak and live freely.

Thanks to the efforts of the Dutch in my riding who raised $12,000 to build the memorial, we have a permanent reminder of our soldiers' struggles. They did not die for a region or a province; they fought for Canada.

The Dutch community wanted me to point out that they are not hyphenated or distinct Canadians but Canadians only, true and proud. I salute their efforts at remembrance.

The Economy

[Ray Speaker, Reform, Lethbridge]

Mr. Speaker, once again the federal government is the last to catch the winds of change.

Canadians from coast to coast are calling for the government to deal with the issues that are truly important. At the top of the list in every region of the country are balanced budgets and tax relief.

The provincial governments are answering the call. Nine have balanced their budgets or plan to do so. A number have developed debt repayment schedules just as Canadian families would pay off a mortgage. By doing so these governments are also putting themselves in a position to offer tax relief in the near future.

The message is clear. Canadians are now holding their elected officials to higher fiscal standards than ever before and the litmus test they are applying is a balanced budget plan. It is telling that there are only two governments in all Canada which fail this test: the separatist government in Quebec and the Liberal government in Ottawa.

World Aids Day

[Audrey McLaughlin, NDP, Yukon, YT]

Mr. Speaker, today is World AIDS Day. As part of the national strategy, the national health research and development program budgets some $5.5 million to researchers working outside Health Canada. The Medical Research Council contributes another $2 million to this research.

Normally these programs issue calls for research applications twice each year. Because the federal government is not prepared to commit to funding AIDS research beyond March 1998, the two programs have decided to stop accepting applications. As a result, long term research will suffer and some of the best and brightest researchers may leave the field.

If the Minister of Health and the government are prepared to accept responsibility, it is essential that the Minister of Health and the Liberal government put their money where their mouth is. It takes money to do research. I call on the government to immediately introduce a funding base beyond 1998.

Unemployment Insurance Reform

[Philippe Paré, Bloc, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, this government's performance on job creation is deplorable. This morning, Statistics Canada announced that 44,000 jobs were lost in

November. Employment has remained practically at a standstill in Canada for the past twelve months. Although jobs are the main focus of the government's program, it has failed utterly to do anything about the labour market situation.

Since the Liberals came to power, the unemployed have been asked to make big sacrifices. The government said that its objective was to put people back to work. There again, it has failed. The Minister of Human Resources Development will table his second set of unemployment insurance reforms today. Like last time, he will say they are intended to give Canadians the dignity of work. However, the figures are there to tell us that the job done on unemployment insurance will not create jobs. The minister is not giving Canadians the dignity of work. He is taking it away from the unemployed.

World Aids Day

[Gurbax Malhi, Liberal, Bramalea—Gore—Malton, ON]

Mr. Speaker, today, December 1, is the eighth annual World AIDS Day.

Since the global epidemic of this dreadful disease was first documented and up to the end of 1994, an estimated 19.5 million men, women and children have contacted HIV. The World Health Organization estimates that the total number could more than double by the year 2000.

AIDS is the most deadly scourge ever faced by humankind. Those who suffer with the ravages of this disease, their families and friends, indeed all of us can count ourselves among the victims of AIDS.

I urge all Canadians to continue to support the battle against this devastating illness. The efforts of every one of us are needed if we are ever to celebrate the last World AIDS Day, the day when we can finally claim victory over this deadly killer.

Royal Roads

[Keith Martin, Reform, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I state in the strongest possible terms my objection to the fact that some 484 acres of pristine crown lands on the Royal Roads property in my riding of Esquimalt-Juan de Fuca are on the table for future development.

The Department of National Defence has already paid the city of Colwood $198,000 for a buy-in for 6,000 residential equivalency units of trunk sewer capacity with an application for a further 2,000 units. Plans for the development of the lands and the property are already under way by the Treasury Board.

Given this fact we deserve to know what are the plans for Royal Roads, who has been consulted and what is the time frame for this development.

Since April 1994 I have continued to advocate a plan put forth by the Royal Roads committee that I started which would see the development of only 60 acres of the land with the rest held forever, in perpetuity. Rest assured I will fight tooth and nail alongside my constituents to ensure that these beautiful lands are not bulldozed and concretized in the name of development.

World Aids Day

[Maurice Dumas, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau, QC]

Mr. Speaker, today is World AIDS Day, and I would like to make parliamentarians, Quebecers and Canadians more aware of the importance of this day.

No one should and no one can afford to remain indifferent to the seriousness of this disease and the physical and psychological suffering it causes.

Unknown until the end of the seventies, the AIDS virus has, in many western and developing countries, become public health problem number one. In 1993 the World Health Organization estimated that more than 14 million people throughout the world were or had been infected by HIV, and 7,000 people have died of AIDS in Canada.

It is still very important to educate the public about the risk of HIV infection. This terrible disease continues to strike down individuals of all ages, irrespective of gender or sexual orientation.

We must not give up in despair. We must persevere in our search for ways to wipe out this disease, because this is the only message of hope-

Banks

[Paul Steckle, Liberal, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Mr. Speaker, as a member of Parliament one of my greatest frustrations are banks and their limited interest in assisting small business.

My riding of Huron-Bruce thrives on the success of small and medium size businesses. Many Canadians are seizing the entrepreneurial spirit, some because it is their lifelong desire and others because they are unable to find employment. These people have skills, intelligence, energy and are willing to take risks to become financially independent.

Small businesses need to be given an opportunity. Canadian banks are making it difficult for entrepreneurs to realize their dreams. If entrepreneurs could afford to launch a new business or

if every mature business could afford to employ one more person, Canada's unemployment rate would decline drastically.

The government has taken the initiative to help small businesses with measures such as Bill C-99, an act to amend the Small Business Loans Act.

I encourage all bankers to help remedy our unemployment problems by taking an invested interest in our financial future and by ensuring that new and existing entrepreneurs are given a fair and equal chance to prove that they can contribute to the economy of the country.

Indian Affairs

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development. A memo from Assistant Deputy Minister of Indian Affairs, Jack Stagg, recommends that Ottawa offer financial compensation to native peoples for supporting the federal system in the referendum and subsidies to try to silence the First Nations' constitutional claims while the so-called Quebec initiatives are announced.

When questioned yesterday, the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development avoided the issue by saying that he had not read the memo, although the national media were talking about it.

How does the minister explain that, yesterday, not only did he not know what his own assistant deputy minister was doing, but he was unaware of what everyone else was fully aware of from reading the paper, namely the content of Mr. Stagg's memo.

[Ron Irwin, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, as I explained yesterday, I have 3,000 civil servants in my department alone. A lot of them do a lot of writing. I did not ask for that note, I did not want that note, and I do not agree with that note.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I imagine the minister must have watched TV yesterday like everyone else; it was on all the networks.

Given the memo's unacceptable recommendations and its lack of respect for the First Nations, will the minister tell us clearly whether he and his government will dissociate themselves from the content of the memo by his assistant deputy minister? Let him say so clearly.

[Ron Irwin, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, I just did.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I understood the minister to say earlier that he was dissociating himself, and now he is saying it again. If this is true, since the memo was not well received by the various native groups and since the Department of Indian Affairs is supposed to protect the rights of these people, would the minister tell us if he plans to discipline his associate deputy minister for his fine memo?

[Ron Irwin, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, the First Nation vote in Quebec does not have to be bought. They are standing up for Canada. When the Crees vote 96.3 per cent no against the separatists and the Inuit vote 95 per cent no against the separatists and the Montagnais vote 99 per cent no against the separatists, that should send a clearer message to the separatists than to the Liberal government.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it is highly unlikely that the minister would brag about accepting referendums restricted to the Crees and Montagnais, an essentially ethnic referendum in which the other people living on these lands were not allowed to vote. That is a very interesting statement coming from this minister.

He was not asked whether or not referendums were held in Quebec. Rather, he was asked specifically whether he dissociates himself from his assistant deputy minister's memo. We are not talking about just anybody, about one of 3,000 public servants, but about the assistant deputy minister. Is the minister going to summon his ADM and take appropriate action? That is the question. We are not asking the minister for his life story. He should be responsible and answer the question.

[Ron Irwin, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, I will associate myself with any civil servant in any department of this government who wants to help the aboriginal people of Quebec.

While I am on my feet, talking about association, there is a person called Pierre Blais who is a member of the separatist government in Quebec. He calls the aboriginal people of Quebec gypsies and nomads.

We are talking about disassociation. When the new leader of Quebec takes over as premier, and maybe when some of the A team go and leave the B team here, will the A team disassociate itself from comments like that?

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, we disavowed such comments as soon as they were uttered. I do not know any Pierre Blais, but I do know that this minister is skirting the issue. Perhaps he needs videotapes to understand the reality, just as the defence minister understands only when he can see the evidence on videotape.

I ask him again the same question. His assistant deputy minister made unacceptable comments, mostly about native people. Will he punish his assistant deputy minister or does he only have a problem with the fact that there was a leak? Is this his sense of responsibility, that a leak is serious? What he said shows his inability to take action. If this minister is incapable of taking action against an assistant deputy minister who made such comments about Quebec and its native people, he should not be a government minister.

[Ron Irwin, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, I will correct that. Pierre Blais is a former minister of justice.

We are talking about disassociation. I will be clear. Any provincial or federal civil servant or any provincial or federal cabinet minister who wants to do the just and honourable thing with aboriginal people will be followed and admired by me.

While we are on the subject of disassociation, what is this party going to do about a former leader who talks about "ethics"? What is this party going to do about a former deputy premier who goes into a hotel and says the same thing? What is this party going to do about racism in Quebec vis-a-vis the ethnic community? It is important to me because I come from ethnic stock, from the Italians and the Irish. If I am offended, I wonder how the aboriginal people feel, who have to face fivefold what we had to face in this country. What is the member going to do about that?

Unemployment Insurance

[Ray Speaker, Reform, Lethbridge]

Mr. Speaker, after a year and a half of delays, flying trial balloons, and countless rewrites, the Minister of Human Resources Development is finally bringing down his watered down UI reform proposals. He has even promised job opportunities and more jobs. Unfortunately while he has been playing politics a very alarming circumstance has occurred. Statistics Canada reports that last month the number of working Canadians fell by 44,000. That is five months of job growth down the drain. I wonder what is happening here.

My question to the minister is as follows. What if anything are the minister's UI proposals doing to stimulate job growth in the private sector?

[Maurizio Bevilacqua, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, it is abundantly clear to those individuals who have been active participants in the debate about restructuring Canada's social security system that the Unemployment Insurance Act as it is today does not reflect the reality of the workplace. It is for this reason that the government embarked on a very ambitious project to modernize Canada's social security system with three major objectives.

The first objective is to help Canadians find and keep jobs by providing them with not only income support but also a set of tools that will allow them to get back to work quickly. The second objective is to provide protection for the most vulnerable in our society. I know how the Reform Party feels about that. The third objective is to develop a system that is sustainable.

The announcement the minister of human resources will make today will be something Canadians have been waiting for and it will address those three objectives.

[Ray Speaker, Reform, Lethbridge]

Mr. Speaker, those objectives are certainly noble, but the fact of the matter is that job growth has not occurred. When we saw the minister preparing his proposal, in the last few days he has been making political manipulation and changes instead of looking at sound policy.

If the minister is really serious about creating jobs and improving job opportunities in the country, why did he not slash the payroll taxes by more than the token five cents that was announced informally yesterday? My question is clear. The Minister of Finance has said in the House more than once that payroll taxes kill jobs. If that is true, why did the Minister of Human Resources Development not announce a slash greater than five cents?

[Maurizio Bevilacqua, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, it is becoming abundantly clear that the Reform Party simply does not understand even the measures that were taken in the past budget by the Minister of Finance.

The Minister of Finance has already reduced payroll taxes. Measures that will be announced later on by the minister will speak to the issue of job creation, which is an important and fundamental pillar of the jobs and growth agenda. Not only has this government created over 500,000 jobs, but we are modernizing the delivery services. We are engaging the private sector, working together in partnership with the government through things like national

sectoral councils and youth internship programs, which have created over 30,000 jobs for young people.

We are modernizing the system and we are creating the climate that will speak to the issue of job creation.

[Ray Speaker, Reform, Lethbridge]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Human Resources Development has promised that through the UI proposals there will be job opportunity and job growth. But if you really look at it, what is the record that is before us?

First of all, there is really nothing in there that is going to break the cycle of dependency. There is going to be nothing there for those 44,000 Canadians who just lost their jobs. There is going to be nothing there for the young people who are looking for jobs at the present time. There is a lot of politics, but not good, substantial policy.

My question to the hon. parliamentary secretary is as follows. After a year and a half of dithering and political manoeuvring here and top down tinkering and made in Ottawa solutions, what is the government really going to do through this policy to reduce the number of unemployed in this country?

[Maurizio Bevilacqua, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member should be asking what the government has already done to create jobs in Canada. We have done a great deal. I have outlined a number of measures we have taken already.

I find it extremely surprising that a member of the Reform Party, the same party that does not support the summer job action plan of this government, which has created over 44,500 jobs, would get up and claim to be the defender of young people in this country.

It is abundantly clear to the people of Canada that the Reform members of the opposition have abdicated their responsibilities to give young people a chance.

Indian Affairs

[André Caron, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Indian Affairs. In his memo, Indian Affairs assistant deputy minister Jack Stagg suggested that federal subsidies be granted to aboriginal people, first, as compensation for supporting the no side in the referendum and, second, as a way to silence native constitutional demands while the federal government is making pseudo-offers to Quebec.

In light of his ADM's memo, will the minister confirm that he did not commit and does not intend to commit any federal funds to cover the costs incurred by the Crees and the Inuit to hold their own referenda in October?