Debates of Dec. 4th, 1995

Manpower Training

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Kamouraska—Rivière-Du-Loup, QC]

Mr. Speaker, what Quebec wants is for the federal government to withdraw from this area where it has proven totally ineffective over the past 15 years.

Does the minister realize that by sending cheques directly to the unemployed, his department is preventing Quebec from putting in place a real manpower policy, just to give the federal government visibility with the unemployed?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, in 1941 the provinces, including the province of Quebec, gave to the federal government the responsibility for the unemployment insurance program. It is part of the Constitution. In case the hon. member has not read the Constitution lately, it is in the Constitution. For all those who pay into the system, we are the trustee to ensure they receive proper benefits.

We are making sure that those who have the right they establish with their payment of premiums have the right to receive the benefits. We do not care who delivers them; we simply want to ensure, as a result of our trusteeship, that they receive those benefits. That is part of the Canadian Constitution.

Unemployment Insurance

[Deborah Grey, Reform, Beaver River, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Human Resources Development announced that his five-cent reduction in UI premiums on $100 of insurable earnings would create 24,000 full time jobs in Canada. More money in Canadians' pockets equals more jobs. It is as simple as that.

We have to wonder why then the Minister of Human Resources Development is taking a seven per cent tax bite out of the pay cheques of part time workers in this country.

If a token UI premium reduction creates 25,000 full time jobs, how many jobs will be lost when the government takes $1.2 billion out of the pockets of part time workers?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, the problem with that question is that the hon. member has been listening to her colleague from Calgary and they both have it wrong.

We have said very clearly that part time workers will now be covered by the UI system, and if they want to have a rebate on their premiums they will receive a rebate. Should I repeat that again? Should I underline it? Should I get a red pencil so they can understand it properly? Up to $2,000 there is a full rebate of all those premiums.

On the other hand, those who want to come into the system and become eligible will pay the proper premiums so they can receive the protection of maternity benefits, sickness benefits, they are protected against being out of work and have programs to get back to work, all the protection they do not have now.

[Deborah Grey, Reform, Beaver River, AB]

Mr. Speaker, we are talking math, and I suspect it was not a prerequisite when the Minister of Human Resources Development got his job.

My strength is not math either, but I can figure out this much mathematically. According to his own department, a $900 million reduction in UI premiums creates 25,000 full jobs. That is one job for every $36,000 in reductions. Using those same figures, the minister's $1.2 billion tax grab would kill close to 34,000 jobs in this country.

Will the minister confirm that this tax grab on part time workers is a job killer? And if he does not agree with our figures, maybe he could provide the House with his department's own research in this area.

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, I would suggest that the hon. member read the guide that was tabled at the same time, because that is where the full information would be disclosed.

The reality is that when someone receives coverage under the insurance program they pay a premium. That is what an insurance policy is all about: they pay a premium and get a benefit. Now we are saying that part time workers who were denied any coverage and not included in the program will be able to get the coverage. If they do not receive eligibility they get a rebate. That seems to be simple mathematics. They receive a rebate. That is the point of the program.

What I think the hon. member is clearly missing is that as this workplace goes through very substantial changes, part time workers and many workers who now have two or three jobs do not have sufficient hours or income to get coverage. As a result, it creates insecurity, which creates problems in the labour market. We are trying to restore security for over half a million workers.

Old Age Security

[Maurice Dumas, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Human Resources Development. After tabling a UI reform package that is really an extensive cutback program, the Minister of Human Resources Development is about to table an old age pension reform that goes along the same lines.

Will the minister admit that, after his all-out attack against unemployed Canadians, he is about to do the same thing to seniors?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, we have neither attacked Canadian workers nor do we intend to attack Canadian seniors.

What we are doing as a government is ensuring that this country is able to govern itself effectively. For workers, that means getting back to jobs. For seniors and people over the age of 65, that means making sure they have good security in their old age. That is the intention of this government.

[Maurice Dumas, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau, QC]

As a supplementary, Mr. Speaker, will the minister confirm that not only is the federal government set to cut old age pensions but that it will encourage, I repeat encourage, seniors to work part time upon retiring?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, the only person who is guilty of inciting is the hon. member, who is making those kinds of false statements in the House and trying to raise fears that people should not have.

He has been told many times in the House, by the Prime Minister and others, that we would not be touching seniors' existing pensions. What we are looking at is the need to make a major reform in the Canada pension plan and other forums to make sure it is a sustainable program, that it provides security not just for this generation of seniors but for the next generation of seniors.

The basic purpose of government is to look ahead to the future. Unfortunately, this member only seems to be able to look to the past.

Unemployment Insurance

[Herb Grubel, Reform, Capilano—Howe Sound, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I was going to ask a general question about job losses, but I am upset about the logical inconsistency of the minister. He should have been coached by somebody who understands this.

On the one side, the minister claims that reduction in legislatively mandated premiums on unemployment insurance creates jobs. Then the minister turns around and says now we will legislate increased premiums for part time workers. He claims that one will gain jobs and the other one does not lose jobs. Could he clear up this inconsistency for me?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, yes, because we are offering a rebate to employers who pay the premiums.

[Herb Grubel, Reform, Capilano—Howe Sound, BC]

Mr. Speaker, that is clearly on some of those who get rebates, not the others. It is inconsistent.

Last month Canada lost 64,000 full time jobs. There are reports of a coming recession with threats of still further job losses. The red book reference to jobs, jobs, jobs appears to have been about job losses, not jobs gained.

My question is for the Minister of Finance. Since he proudly claimed credit for jobs created in previous months, will he now take responsibility for these job losses and tell us how he plans for Canadians to get back to work?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, one of the obvious instalments in the job program is what we did in this program, which was to take a program that had ballooned to double its size over a decade and provide a way of refining that program and reducing many of its costs so that it can be a sustainable program.

Second, we are substantially streamlining the program so that business can save about $150 million on administration costs, which they can convert back into the job areas.

Third, the program generates $800 million of new employment benefits, which create a number of jobs for Canadians, especially those who have been long term unemployed.

Fourth, we have a major investment of $300 million to help develop in high unemployment areas specific investment funds and initiatives to help create jobs in those areas.

This is a major instalment of the job creation of this program.

Purchase Of Helicopters

[Jean-Marc Jacob, Bloc, Charlesbourg, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of National Defence.

Probably in the hope of saving enough money to buy submarines that we do not need, the government is contemplating the purchase of about 20 American built Sea Hawk helicopters. However, this type of helicopter is known for experiencing problems at sea. This is not very reassuring, considering that these helicopters will fly over the sea 80 per cent of the time.

Will the minister confirm that he intends to spend close to one billion dollars to buy inadequate helicopters on sale?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

No, Mr. Speaker.

[Jean-Marc Jacob, Bloc, Charlesbourg, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the answer is short and clear.

Even if he will not confirm it, how can the minister justify his intention to award, once again without tenders, a contract worth close to one billion dollars to buy helicopters from an American company, thus depriving, as we already mentioned, the Canadian aircraft industry, which is primarily located in Quebec, of any economic spinoffs?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member's statement is totally wrong.

Violence Against Women

[Sue Barnes, Liberal, London West, ON]

Mr. Speaker, on December 1 last year I asked the Minister of Justice what action he was taking to protect women from violence.

Today I ask the Minister of Justice what legislative measures he has taken in the past year to implement the government's plan to deal with the issue of violence against women?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, first I must acknowledge the deep commitment and the enormous contribution of the hon. member in this area.

Although a great deal remains to be done, those things that have been achieved over the last year in dealing with men's violence against women have been brought about largely because of the contribution of my colleague and other members of the Liberal caucus.

Over the last year a number of steps have been taken to which I can refer in response to her question. On February 15 of this year, Bill C-42 became effective. Among other things, it provided in peace bonds that application can be made by someone other than the woman affected. An application might be brought by a police officer. The penalties were increased, the terms were made firmer.

I can refer as well to Bill C-41, the sentencing bill given royal assent in mid-July. Among other things, as a result of the initiative of the hon. member for Mississauga South, domestic violence was made an aggravating factor. As a result of the work by the hon. member for Brant, restitution was provided for victims of domestic violence.

A great deal remains to be done. I am proud to say we have already taken steps this year that will make a difference.

Implementation Force

[Bob Mills, Reform, Red Deer, AB]

Mr. Speaker, we have no details about the Canadian role in the upcoming NATO deployment or the size of the contingent or much else. The defence minister says the cabinet will decide tomorrow.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[Bob Mills, Reform, Red Deer, AB]

Will the minister table this proposal in full detail and allow Parliament to have-

[The Speaker]

Members will recognize that the Chair must wait and listen to what the question is going to be, rather than just the preamble. This question, in my view, is out of order.

If the hon. minister would like to address it, I will permit him to, but in my view it is out of order. We will go on to the second question.

[Bob Mills, Reform, Red Deer, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I apologize for that. I did check with the Clerk to try and look at the rules.

We have talked about many human rights abuses in all parts of the world. We have talked about the genocide that has occurred in places, particularly the former Yugoslavia.

I would like to know what the government has in mind for all of our forces any place in the world to handle how they are going to deal with the issue of genocide.