Mr. Speaker, it must be my lucky day. It seems like I have been up every half hour this morning and early afternoon.
It brings a concern to my mind. Like the rest of my colleagues, I have been sitting in the House for somewhat over a year now. I sometimes wonder about the priority the government puts on agriculture. Last year when we started in January we sat until almost May before we had a debate on agriculture.
This concerns me because I am a farmer from Saskatchewan. Many of the constituents who elected me in Moose Jaw-Lake Centre are farmers. Certainly most or all of them are concerned about what happens in the agriculture industry. It is a concern that there seems to be a lack of interest in the whole idea of agriculture. It is good to see that we have a number of bills before the House now that are pertinent and relevant to today's agricultural communities.
I want to talk for a few minutes on Bill C-61. Bill C-61 proposes a system of administrative and monetary policies for the enforcement of the Agriculture Products Act, the Feeds Act, the Fertilizer Protection Act and the Seeds Act. It proposes some new provisions and also various amendments to the current acts.
Basically the bill gives the Department of Agriculture and Agri-food more options and greater authority in enforcing the relevant agriculture legislation. Currently most contraventions of regulations under these acts are treated as offences and prosecuted as such. We have already said that puts a burden on the court system and is generally very inefficient.
The new system is intended to streamline the process by utilizing a ticketing system that will include AMPs but will not be treated as a criminal offence unless it is deemed serious enough.
One of my great concerns is who will deem it serious enough to be a criminal offence? Will it be the minister? Will it be a board or a tribunal that is appointed by the minister? It concerns me, if not for the current minister, but for future ministers. We have no guarantee and no protection, in my mind, that protects consumers and the industry from a minister who would want to play heavy-handed politics in the industry. That is probably my one great concern with Bill C-61. Up until this time I do not feel the question has been answered on how we will be protected from a heavy-handed minister.
I do not believe a lot of accountability is built into Bill C-61. The debate on this bill should also focus on the amount of regulation in general. Some of the regulations relevant to this bill are quite necessary.
For example, the regulations dealing with health of animals and meat inspection have to be a concern and must be a priority for government as I mentioned this morning in another speech on another subject. In areas such as these we could talk about the need for the industry to regulate itself. That is something of which the industry would be in favour and in which industry would be willing to negotiate and get involved.
Some amendments should be put forward to this bill. I can think of numerous things. Again I want to mention the idea of protection for the consumer and those involved in the industry.
Canadians want the safety that this bill will provide for them in areas like the illegal and undeclared importation of plants, plant products, meat or meat products. It is a serious concern because of the probable introduction of plant or animal diseases. Those could cost millions of taxpayers' dollars for control and elimination. When we look at a $500 billion plus debt, everyone in this House would agree that we have to be concerned and make sure that we do not spend any taxpayers' dollars than is absolutely necessary.
The current process involves prosecution in the courts which really has not been all that effective. There are also limited alternatives in the current system to enforce compliance. This bill proposes the implementation of a ticketing offence proce-
dure at ports of entry in the hope of increasing efficiency and effectiveness in dealing with this problem.
The second point I would like to make is that Canadians want less but more effective regulatory burden. Overall the streamlining of the regulatory process is a very worthy goal, as is reducing court costs and the associated regulatory burden.
With this process however, will there be a bottleneck and an overload of people wanting to pursue the compliance agreement process? What industries have asked for development of this legislation or something similar to it? Are there any companies out there that would be opposed to this type of legislation? If so, why?
Assuming we already agree with the regulations under the eight agriculture acts I can personally support in principle measures which would increase compliance with this legislation and the regulations.
The decriminalization of the federal regulatory offences is an important component. It would reduce the burden of the criminal court system, but will it reduce the likelihood of violations since the consequences will be less likely to include criminal prosecution? This probably would not be the case for individuals but perhaps for large corporations, if they would rather absorb a monetary penalty as opposed to a criminal penalty which could mean the loss of their licence. The compliance record would be wiped clean after five years which could make this route more appealing to some.
The examples I have developed which would likely be treated as violations could include things such as unsanitary facilities in a meat processing establishment or the mislabelling of agriculture products. Examples of a contravention which would likely be treated as a criminal offence could include taking an animal out of quarantine and marketing it, thereby endangering the health of consumers.
The main goal of compliance instead of punishment does seem agreeable. Transport Canada, by the way, and employment and immigration use the administrative monetary penalty system at this point in time.
The third point I would like to make is: How much power do we want to give to the minister? The powers granted to the minister are extensive. He may make regulations which decide what constitutes a violation and what constitutes an offence. In the case of a violation, he can decide whether it is minor, serious or very serious and set penalties for each violation. In my mind I can see a scenario taking place sometime in the future, whether it is next year or 10 years down the road where any particular minister could in effect wield power and clout that could be far beyond what he or she should be allowed to do.
I can see the possibility of this getting very political. Someone who did not support any particular party and ran a corporation for instance could be in trouble with any particular minister should that minister decide the corporation is close to the line. The minister would have the option to decide what would be a violation and what would be a criminal offence. That scares me.
Right now the minister is given the power to decide whether a contravention should be treated as a violation or an offence. The fines we have talked about. There is no need to go into the increase in fines. There is no problem with that.
The fourth point I would like to make concerns the board of arbitration. My colleague from Vegreville mentioned it and I certainly am in agreement with him. It is important that we have a board of arbitration. I would like very much before the board is appointed to have the appointees brought before the Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food for a good hard look at who these people might be.
I wonder if these types of regulations will be binding upon all, including the big players. We have seen the problem of backtracking where millions of dollars are wasted every year.
This Transport Canada system certainly has not solved the problem. Is this a reluctance to go after the major players in the industry? The railways have not been punished in the past for failure to perform their duties. This type of system is only useful if it is applied fairly and uniformly, but with so much power given to the minister there is really no assurance of that.
Let us not forget that one of the main causes of regulation violation is business frustration with the regulatory and taxation burden. Therefore, one of the best things the government could do in my mind to increase regulatory compliance is to lower the input costs for doing business, lower the tax burden and thereby increase the profitability margin. My thinking on this is that happy campers are compliant campers and they are good campers.
Speaking of the non-criminal remedies available to the government departments, I would ask if the minister of agriculture would offer some of his advice to the Minister of Justice who wants to make criminals out of law-abiding gun owners.
In conclusion, as I mentioned at the outset, there are some good points in this bill. For me to stand here and say that I personally would oppose this bill based on the theory would be wrong for me to do and I certainly will not do that. As I have mentioned two or three times during my speech, there are some areas we have to look at which could be subject to amendments, certainly the major one being the powers given to the minister.