Debates of Feb. 17th, 1995

Social Housing

[Jean-Paul Marchand, Bloc, Québec-Est, QC]

That is my question. Is he aware that the $100 million is based on population and that if it were based on a Canadian standard of need it would be much higher than $100 million a year?

[David Dingwall, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services and Minister for the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency]

Mr. Speaker, I can well appreciate the concerns the hon. member is expressing, but he should know that we are in a very difficult fiscal situation as the Minister of Finance has told Canadians repeatedly.

I do not think it is accurate for the hon. member to suggest in the House or to imply by his questioning that somehow we are doing inappropriate things when it comes to the province of Quebec.

I remind the hon. member that the government, in view of its limited fiscal capacity, has provided $5 million over four years in support of low income housing through the CREESOM initiative. We have provided another $5 million in terms of the RéparAction program and another $5 million in terms of landlords to upgrade rental and rooming housing. We have provided

further assistance as it relates to assisting homeowners with cracked foundations.

Given the fact that the Minister of Finance and other members of cabinet have a limited capacity within which to operate, I think we have done reasonably well under the guise of fairness to provide that kind of assistance to the province of Quebec.

Members' Pensions

[Ed Harper, Reform, Simcoe Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, for months now we have been listening to the Liberal government rail against two-tier health care and two-tier taxation.

Imagine my surprise when the Liberals floated a two-tier MP pension: a reduced trough for the new MPs and the original pork barrel for the Liberal frontbenches.

My question is for the Deputy Prime Minister. Why does the Liberal rhetoric of equality not apply to MP pensions? Why are so many Liberal MPs reluctant to part with their gold plated pensions?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, the premise of the hon. member's question is false.

[Ed Harper, Reform, Simcoe Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, there is a price to pay for floating trial balloons and this one may be shot down.

I have a supplementary question. Why will the government not bring MPs' pensions into line with those in the private sector, do it equally across the board and do it now?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for Infrastructure]

Mr. Speaker, I think the Deputy Prime Minister said it all, but let me add that the government will acquit itself of its obligation with respect to the reform of MPs' pensions and it will be doing it mighty soon.

Government Expenditures

[Peter Thalheimer, Liberal, Timmins—Chapleau, ON]

Mr. Speaker, Canadians in general and my constituents in particular have expressed great concern that overlap and duplication at all levels of government are costly and unnecessary.

In his speech on Wednesday, the Minister of Foreign Affairs announced that from now on the federal government would concentrate on areas of federal jurisdiction, recognizing that overlap and duplication had become serious problems.

What is the government doing to reduce costly overlap and duplication among all levels of government, particularly here in Ontario?

[John English, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I agree with the hon. member and my colleagues opposite that overlap and duplication seriously impair the efficiency of our federation. Fortunately we are making some real progress.

We have concluded agreements with the provincial government in 60 cases where we have made commitments. In these 60 cases, we have eliminated the overlap and duplication that raise costs for government in such areas as food inspection, drug prosecution, environmental management and, the member for Simcoe Centre will be glad to know, the Canada-Ontario Business Centre. Canada works best when it works together.

Taxation

[Nelson Riis, NDP, Kamloops, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Finance who in his pursuit for tax fairness may or may not be aware that the business entertainment tax deduction includes escort services as long as the escort services are called being a bodyguard or a tour guide.

Again in an effort to bring sanity to our tax system, would the minister indicate to the House and to the Canadian public generally whether he feels it is an appropriate entertainment tax deduction?

[David Anderson, Liberal, Minister of National Revenue]

Mr. Speaker, I assure the hon. member that the escort services to which he has referred are not permitted.

However, if there is a situation where a bodyguard is required or a tour guide is required, it might be considered a legitimate business expense when entertaining a foreign client or someone like that. An interpreter would be in the same position.

[Nelson Riis, NDP, Kamloops, BC]

Mr. Speaker, this may put a new twist on the term bodyguard or tour around the world guide or whatever.

Again in the pursuit of tax fairness, the Minister of Finance will know full well that a number of years ago as a result of the Carter commission, a study into Canada's taxation system, he indicated that a buck should be considered a buck, a buck, a buck, referring to the fact that a buck as capital gains is not equal to a dollar earned by labour.

Would the Minister of Finance recognize that this policy is worth considering at this point, particularly when we acknowledge that $1 billion is lost each year to the national treasury as a result of this tax provision?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, I commend the member and certain members on my side who continue in the pursuit of tax fairness. It brings a very important element to the debate.

I fully understand the member's question and think everything should be on the table. Obviously everything should be looked at, but I would say that one can make the distinction especially at a time when one is looking to small and medium sized business and to entrepreneurs to create jobs. We should recognize that income derived from a certain degree of risk may well be treated differently if we are going to create the capital in the country to create more jobs.

The Environment

[René Canuel, Bloc, Matapédia—Matane, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of the Environment. After making important commitments during the election campaign to reduce greenhouse gases, the government has been at a standstill on the issue for 15 months. Worse yet, the federal Cabinet is divided on the issue of whether punitive measures or only incentives should be used.

Is the Minister of the Environment of the same opinion as her counterpart from natural resources and the Prime Minister that the only way to meet the red book's commitment of reducing greenhouse gases is to implement voluntary measures and incentives in the industry?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, it is unfortunate that the hon. member has not yet had the chance to read the Liberal government's commitment in the red book, because in the red book, we promised a national action program that we will present in Berlin, and we are continuing to work towards that goal with all those concerned.

I am disappointed that, unfortunately, one government will not be present at the meeting in Toronto, next Monday. All of the action plans will be tabled at that meeting. And, unfortunately, the one government which will not be present at the meeting on the very important issue of the effect of greenhouse gases on all Canadians is the government of Quebec. We want to work with the government of Quebec and I hope that the member opposite will do his best to bring Quebec to the negotiating table in Toronto on Monday.

[René Canuel, Bloc, Matapédia—Matane, QC]

Mr. Speaker, given the bad track record the oil industry has regarding environmental protection, will the minister not concede that the government is dreaming in technicolour if it believes that it can reduce greenhouse gases by virtue of incentives only?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, it is obvious that we need stronger measures in addition to mere incentives. This was the policy we adopted in Bathurst with all of ministers of the environment and energy.

Unfortunately, I must reiterate that the Parti Quebecois and the Bloc Quebecois will be the first to accuse us of stepping on the provinces' toes if we were to regulate emissions that fall under provincial jurisdiction. What we promised in the red book was to get our house in order first and also to encourage all of the provinces to put in place more than incentives. We expect the government of Quebec to take part in discussions on this issue, which transcends all politics. It concerns the health of Canadians.

Government Appointments

[Chuck Strahl, Reform, Fraser Valley East, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister responsible for Public Service Renewal.

Yesterday the government released part of its program review, a review that took almost a year to complete. While a number of patronage positions were reduced it was a drop in the bucket and the old system of patronage is still intact.

Canadians are looking for a change in the process of appointments and until the process is changed nothing is really different.

Why did the minister not announce a change in the patronage process during yesterday's announcement?

[John English, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for his question.

The agency review announced yesterday that the number of governor in council appointments were reduced greatly. To clarify the situation, between November 1993 and the beginning of February the Government of Canada appointed approximately 700 persons to governor in council positions. It was actually 100 less than that because 600 were new appointments. The

previous government had appointed 1,819 in the same period. In effect we have reduced the appointments by two-thirds.

[Chuck Strahl, Reform, Fraser Valley East, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the patronage process has been in place in Canada for 100 years. Yesterday's announcement did not change the process at all.

We need a more orderly, a more objective and a fairer process so Canadians have faith in the appointments the government is involved in.

Why did the minister not change the patronage appointment process yesterday so that hundreds of these appointments do not continue to be made behind closed doors by orders in council?

[John English, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I wish to reiterate that it is a change of process where the numbers are one-third of what they were before.

We are changing the acts to make the processes fairer. All appointments are advertised in the Canada Gazette and we look at competence and merit in our appointments.

Gun Control

[Harold Culbert, Liberal, Carleton—Charlotte, NB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Justice.

The new firearms' legislation includes universal registration, which is seen by many as a penalty to the responsible firearm owner, sporting enthusiast, farmer, game hunter and collector. Can the minister tell the House what benefits there are in requiring responsible owners to register their firearms?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday I had the privilege of leading off debate on second reading of Bill C-68. I commend to the hon. member Hansard , particularly pages 9707 to 9710 on this subject where I develop the reasons why registration will enhance community safety.

Let me briefly mention three now. By the way, I met with firearms' owners and groups in New Brunswick. I am well aware of their concerns.

First, where someone has firearms which are in collections or are of value to the owner, if they are lost or stolen, registration will enable the police to return those firearms to the owners. That is very helpful.

Second, the police want to have registration so when they are responding to calls of domestic violence, for example, they know what firearms are there before they arrive.

Third, police say that when courts make orders prohibiting people from having firearms, they cannot enforce them unless they have registration to make sure they have collected all the firearms which the person in question might own.

I commend to the hon. member the views of the Catholic Women's League of Canada, which has an important provincial chapter in Oromocto, New Brunswick, which just wrote endorsing universal registration and the balance of our firearms package.

Ways And Means

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order 83(1), I have the honour to lay upon the Table some explanatory notes and a Notice of Ways and Means Motion to amend the Income Tax Act.

This motion is part of the government's plan to raise, as of midnight, the excise tax on cigarettes sold at the retail level in Ontario and Quebec.

I ask that you designate an Order of the Day for the consideration of the said motion.

Petitions

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Beauport—Montmorency—Orléans, QC]

Mr. Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order 36, I have the honour to table officially, on behalf of constituents in Beauport-Montmorency-Orléans, a petition with 253 signatures in which your petitioners call upon Parliament to urge the government to drop its plan to introduce a voice mail system for its services to senior citizens.

I agree with their position, and I think senior citizens are entitled to personalized services that meet their needs.

[Rose-Marie Ur, Liberal, Lambton—Middlesex, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I wish to table three petitions signed by the constituents of Lambton-Middlesex and duly certified by the clerk of petitions pursuant to Standing Order 36.

The petitioners pray and request that Parliament not amend the Human Rights Act or the Charter of Rights and Freedoms in

any way which would tend to indicate societal approval of same sex relationships or of homosexuality, including amending the human rights code to include in the prohibited grounds of discrimination, the undefined phrase sexual orientation.