Debates of Feb. 9th, 1995

Social Program Reform

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Human Resources Development.

At the start of the week, the Minister of Human Resources Development stated that the government would proceed with its reform of social programs and that it would be consulting the

provinces. The last federal-provincial ministers conference on income security was cancelled on April 18 due to the strong opposition of a number of provinces to its reform.

Does the Minister of Human Resources Development plan to call a federal-provincial conference on social program reform before the upcoming federal budget?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for her question. I can answer very briefly that just before the Christmas break my deputy met with his counterparts in the provincial governments to talk about the process they would like to initiate. A meeting was also held in the third week of January with the social service deputies to raise that question.

The response we received back from the provinces is that they would like to wait before they start a formal process until after the budget to be sure on the fiscal parameters.

I would like to indicate to the hon. member that I had a meeting last week with all the social service labour market ministers from the Atlantic provinces.

We had a very good discussion about how we can approach ongoing consultations with the provinces. I will be meeting with other provincial ministers individually over the next couple of weeks. I can confirm for the member that several provinces are quite ready to look seriously at how we can work together for the development of a new social reform package.

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, are we to understand that the government intends to present the provinces with a fait accompli by failing to call a federal-provincial conference on the proposed reform prior to the budget? Is it the government's intention, despite the discussions that have taken place and despite the additional cuts planned in the budget, which the number of rumours about would appear to confirm, to simply announce to the provinces, without prior consultation, what the cuts will mean for them?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, I explained to the hon. member that in the meetings we held in both December and January at the senior official level in which we raised the issue of how we should proceed with a useful process of discussion, it was the wishes of the provincial representatives that any further meetings of ministers await the tabling of the federal budget.

In all things we are most sensitive and interested in the points of view of the provinces and therefore abide by their wishes.

Immigration

[Art Hanger, Reform, Calgary Northeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, in the interest of saving hundreds of millions of taxpayers' dollars I ask the minister of immigration if he would consider the following Reform proposals: eliminating the Immigration and Refugee Board; selecting more refugees from abroad and reforming visas to end abuse; creating a safe third country list; negotiating a cut to legal aid for court appeals for illegal residents; not issuing any more amnesties for failed claimants.

[The Speaker]

Colleagues, usually in Question Period we might get a question and maybe tack a little one on behind. When we get up to five that is a little much. Perhaps the hon. minister could answer the first two.

[Sergio Marchi, Liberal, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, I could not agree with you more.

This government has already taken measures to improve not only the immigration but also the refugee determination system.

We passed the other night Bill C-44, intended to improve the system and cut down on the very abuses that are part of that. We said at the end of last year as part of the program and agency review that additional reforms will be brought before the House of Commons in the very near future.

I ask the member to also judge us on that record.

[Art Hanger, Reform, Calgary Northeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, if the minister will not agree to those proposals, how about a pledge not to repeat expenditures like these next year: furniture for his friend Michael Schelew, $100,000; a $100,000 handshake when Schelew had to leave; $25,000 for a trip for senior bureaucrats to Vancouver Island; $2,000 for bookmarks with the-

[The Speaker]

These multiple questions are difficult for the Chair to control in question period. As long as the questions deal with the administration of a minister's department, of course I will consider them. When questions are so specific that perhaps they should be best put on the Order Paper, hon. members should consider that.

I will permit the hon. minister of immigration to address himself to the first two questions.

[Sergio Marchi, Liberal, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, this is the kind of grandstanding that you cannot help but contrast the kind of spirit of these types of questions when we are looking at an important dossier like immigration. Contrast that with the speeches of the Prime Minister and the Governor General yesterday with the generos-

ity of spirit, the kind of vision that it takes to build a country like Canada which has been built by both newcomers and those who have been here for a long time.

Fight Against Aids

[Réal Ménard, Bloc, Hochelaga—Maisonneuve, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Health.

The Minister of Health has obviously been overtaken by the events and stubbornly refuses to assume her responsibilities with respect to AIDS. This minister shows her staggering incompetence by displaying her inability to understand what those afflicted with this terrible disease must go through.

How does the Minister of Health explain that, two weeks before the federal budget is tabled, an amount of $1.1 million earmarked for the fight against AIDS is still unused and that, after waiting for 10 months, the minister still refuses to allocate this amount so that people with AIDS and community field workers can get help?

[Diane Marleau, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, I am sorry but if someone has been overtaken, it is the hon. member, because I have explained several times how we handle the money set aside to fight AIDS. We have, in phase II, $40.7 million a year, which is spent directly on assistance and research programs to prevent AIDS.

In addition, the Medical Research Council spends $2 million each year on research programs. At the international level, CIDA also spends money.

[Réal Ménard, Bloc, Hochelaga—Maisonneuve, QC]

Mr. Speaker, how can the minister rise in this House and justify the fact that seven community projects are waiting on her desk, when they have been approved by her officials? Can the minister tell us whether or not she will help community groups and authorize these projects, which have been waiting for her signature since October?

[Diane Marleau, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, there are many projects under review within my department, far more than the seven that have been indicated here today.

The challenge is to ensure that every dollar we spend is spent effectively. That is what we are doing and that is what we will continue to do. Good projects will receive funding.

Canadian Armed Forces

[John Richardson, Liberal, Perth—Wellington—Waterloo, ON]

Mr. Speaker, this question is for the Minister of National Defence.

On several occasions the minister has assured this House of his strong concern for the health and welfare of the Canadian troops. Is the minister aware that Canadian forces personnel are complaining that they are experiencing effects which are sometimes called the gulf war syndrome?

Can the minister tell this House what is being done to address these complaints for the future well-being of the Canadian forces members?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, we have been concerned about this problem for some time.

No definitive link has been made with respect to some of the symptoms people are experiencing and the participation in the Gulf war. A registry has been established at veterans affairs. A special clinic here in Ottawa at the National Defence Medical Centre has been established to deal with it. A protocol has been put forward for all medical personnel in the armed forces to deal with these complaints as they come forward. The Surgeon General of the armed forces has written to every member serving in the Gulf to ascertain whether or not the kind of complaints which have surfaced in some cases are prevalent.

We have no definitive link yet. Neither do similar authorities in the U.S. and Great Britain which also served in the gulf. It is something we want to get to the bottom of and we are at least putting these steps in place to address this very serious problem.

Unemployment Insurance

[Garry Breitkreuz, Reform, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Mr. Speaker, I have in my hand a report that was produced over a year ago by the department that answers to the Minister of Human Resources Development. This report shows that the unemployment insurance program is so poorly designed that the unemployment rate could be .5 to 1.5 per cent lower than it currently is.

The minister's own department admits that unemployment insurance needs reform. He has had over a year to do something and has done nothing. When will we get some real action?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, if the hon. member would be

courteous enough to tell us exactly what this report is, I would be glad to take a look at it.

As the hon. member knows, but I hope this does not come as a great surprise to him, we have just spent four months on a major public consultation by a committee looking at the unemployment insurance program. Members of Parliament, including his colleagues, have made a number of recommendations. In fact, I think he was on the committee. It strikes me that if he had all of this information, why did he not use it then?

[Garry Breitkreuz, Reform, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Mr. Speaker, what is happening here is that we have a government that uses consultation as an excuse for inaction. That is what is happening. This report is available.

[The Speaker]

I would ask the hon. member not to use any props. If that is indeed the report, I would just ask him to put it down so he can put his question. No props.

[Garry Breitkreuz, Reform, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Mr. Speaker, Canadian taxpayers are sick of people who abuse our social programs, but they are even more sick of politicians who do not do anything. The minister is bent on making his programs bigger; he seems incapable of making them better.

Will the minister finally admit that big government programs are actually the root of the problem?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, to go back to the hon. member's somewhat fiery declamations, after yesterday's question period I made a special point of going back and looking very carefully at the recommendations tabled by the Reform Party as part of its committee report.

After carefully reading them, I came to the conclusion that I agree fully with the comments made by the hon. member's colleague, the member for Calgary North. She said: "They were not thought through very well; they were rushed into print" and no one should take them too seriously. That certainly speaks to the whole position of the Reform Party on social reform.

Air Transportation

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Beauport—Montmorency—Orléans, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Minister of Transport.

The Minister of Transport recently announced his policy on assigning new international routes to air carriers. This policy will give Canadian International an advantage by granting it a quasi-monopoly on Pacific routes and excluding Air Canada from this lucrative market.

Would the Minister of Transport agree that by denying Air Canada access to the Hong Kong and Chinese market, he is also depriving Canadians of the substantial benefit they would enjoy as a result of competition between the two carriers?

[Douglas Young, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, Air Canada is of course interested in the Hong Kong route. However, as you very well know, in 1994 we gave Air Canada access to Japan with a route to Osaka via the new Kansai airport. I can assure the hon. member that the outlook is pretty good. Air Canada will hire more than 350 flight attendants and recall about 100 pilots. That is not bad.

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Beauport—Montmorency—Orléans, QC]

Mr. Speaker, could the Minister of Transport explain why, after the Gemini affair and the guaranteed loan of $50 million to Canadian International, the federal government has once again decided to give Canadian International an edge over Air Canada? Does he have an explanation?