Debates of March 13th, 1995

Firearms Act

[Paul Devillers, Liberal, Simcoe North, ON]

Madam Speaker, I am pleased to participate in the debate on Bill C-68, an act respecting firearms and other weapons. As is the case in many rural ridings, the legislation has elicited a great deal of interest among my constituents.

Everyone participating in the discussion should do so with the following three points in mind. First, the government promised to toughen firearms legislation during the last election campaign and was elected with a strong mandate. Second, opinion research indicates a very high level of support among Canadians for the legislative initiative. Third, firearms owners have legitimate concerns about the proposed law. If we do not work with these axioms in mind, we will not have the constructive and open debate this important issue merits.

The Minister of Justice introduced a broad set of measures intended to increase public security in Canada. While I have difficulty fully appreciating all the benefits of registering rifles and shotguns, I nonetheless support most of the provisions in the bill.

Most Canadians, even the most sceptical, would admit there is some good in the legislation.

However, this debate is about how we can improve this bill even more, to make it acceptable to a larger number of Canadians. As we saw with the GST, for instance, if a new bill is not widely accepted, it will fail to do what it is supposed to do.

During the past few months I have received hundreds of cards and many telephone calls, faxes and letters representing the two poles of this debate. I met a number of constituents personally and also attended regularly the meetings of a special firearms owners advisory committee.

Of the approximately 500 residents of Simcoe North who communicated with me on this bill, about 10 per cent supported the bill and 90 per cent were opposed. The majority of the latter group expressed their views through a mail-in campaign.

Despite the opinion research showing strong support in every region of Canada for the measures contained in Bill C-68, it is clear that large numbers of hunters, target shooters and gun collectors are very dissatisfied. As legislators I feel we should do our utmost to balance these concerns with the will of the majority of Canadians. If we can eliminate the dogmatic rhetoric emanating from those with entrenched positions on either side of the issue and debate the matter with a rational approach and an open mind, we can make important progress toward this balance.

An example of a compromise that would not water down the bill in any way but would certainly render it fair in practice and in perception is the following: Bill C-68 could be significantly improved by removing from the Criminal Code the penalties in section 91 for non-registration in cases where the contravention is not wilful, for example where there has been an oversight. This type of non-registration would be more justly dealt with under the newly created firearms act.

Penalties for wilful non-registration in section 92 could remain in the Criminal Code. This simple amendment would take nothing away from the strength of the bill but would ensure that law-abiding Canadians are not recorded as having criminal records due to an omission, oversight or ignorance of the law. In my opinion the amendment would dispel much of the concern felt by many firearm owners.

I have received a legal opinion that not only would the amendment be constitutional but it would actually improve the constitutionality of the bill. I have requested an opportunity to appear before the Standing Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs to seek its support for the amendment. Barring a chance

to appear before the standing committee, I propose to move a motion in the House during report stage debate.

We have all witnessed the atmosphere of suspicion and misinformation around discussions on gun control. Quite frankly, much of the problem is due to a lack of information about the repercussions of the bill. We should not be surprised that gun owners get upset when their members of Parliament are unable to answer very basic questions like: how much will it cost?

The question is a legitimate one, and I would like to be able to give a clear and precise. In the absence of detailed information, individuals and organizations that have a vested interest in giving Canadians the worst case scenario have been quick to provide their own answers to these questions, sometimes drawing alarmist conclusions that have been greatly exaggerated.

For instance, in my riding people say it will cost between $86 and $102 to register a firearm. However, the Minister of Justice figures that it will cost only $10 for up to ten firearms. If we cannot prove they are wrong, many people will think these agents of the gun lobby have absolute credibility.

The firearm debate has had a very polarizing dynamic. We have very determined firearm owners on one side and equally determined people on the other side who would rather not see guns in society. Both have legitimate and compelling concerns.

It is for this reason we as parliamentarians must try to take the middle road. Although the middle of the road approach may not satisfy extremists at either end of the spectrum, it will be satisfactory to the majority of Canadians. Canadians pride themselves as a fair and just people, but we must not forget our heritage and that even today firearms activities such as hunting, targeting shooting and collecting are important components of the Canadian identity particularly in rural areas.

The proposals embodied in the bill were introduced last November. In response to input from individual firearm owners and organizations that represent them, the legislation we are debating today contains important improvements to the original proposals. For example, owners of firearms in the restricted category will now be able to buy and sell to others in the same category. In addition to other provisions for divesting of restricted firearms, this will ensure that owners of restricted firearms will have a reasonable choice of options if they choose to retrieve their investment.

These substantial amendments to the original proposal demonstrate there is still room for compromise without undermining the basic principles of the bill. That is why I am proposing an amendment to remove from the Criminal Code the penalties in section 91 for non-registration in cases where the contravention is not wilful. The amendment will make the legislation more just and will increase the degree of compliance without reducing its impact.

In addition to universal registration, Bill C-68 contains many excellent provisions that will undoubtedly improve public safety. I cannot say that I support every aspect of the legislation without reservation, but if I had to give it a grade it would be a b plus, and that is a decent pass.

I intend to vote in favour of Bill C-68, but in respect of the legitimate concerns expressed to me by firearms owners in Simcoe North and in view of my personal reservations I am seeking remedial action in the form of the amendment I described.

[Bernard St-Laurent, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Madam Speaker, our concerns with regard to the legislation on gun control are shared by many of my fellow Canadians. We cannot, however, remain insensitive to the statistics on the number of shooting deaths.

Firearms are involved in over one third of the homicides in Canada. Most of the homicides in the past six years were committed with shotguns or hunting rifles. In three cases out of four, a murdered wife was slain with a hunting shotgun or rifle.

Closer to home, in Quebec, between 1990 and 1992, there were 1,293 deaths attributable to shootings-an average of 425 deaths annually. Three deaths by shooting out of four, in Quebec as well, were suicides, for a total of approximately 300 suicides annually. These sombre statistics are very eloquent. They cannot therefore be ignored. It was essential to ensure a strict application of the provisions of the Criminal Code on the use of firearms. Moreover the regulations in force under the old legislation governing the acquisition, storage and transportation of firearms were incoherent and difficult to apply.

The Minister of Justice had to make them understandable and accessible to everyone. But, did he do so? Let us take the time to consider a few paragraphs.

The Bloc Quebecois favours gun control without discriminating against those who use firearms reasonably and responsibly. I gave some statistics earlier. Here are some more. A descriptive study on suicides, homicides and accidental deaths by shooting was done on a data base available in the files of the coroner. For example, a number of files were examined by the Quebec coroner. The tally of deaths caused by firearms: from 1990 to 1992, 38 accidental deaths; from 1992 to 1993, 572 suicides; from 1991 to 1993, 227 homicides.

The goal of this study was to obtain information on the firearm used, its owner and the situation leading to the incident, in addition to the characteristics of the victims and the circumstances of the incident.

Thus we can see that guns are the preferred means used by people who want to end it all. Let us look at the specific aspects of this kind of death. Between 1990 and 1992, a gun was used in 26 per cent of all suicides. This percentage varies by age group. Thirty-seven per cent of all people under 20 years of age use a gun to commit suicide. In the 20 to 29 age bracket, this percentage drops to 27 per cent, and bottoms out at 25 per cent for people 30 years of age and older.

What is the age of the victim? The rate at which people 10 years of age or older use a gun to commit suicide is 5.2 per 100,000. However, we find the highest rate in the 15 to 24 age bracket, which is 7 per 100,000. Men, in a proportion of 92.7 per cent, use guns to commit suicide, compared to women who, naturally, make up the difference of 7.3 per cent.

I would like to continue by citing an interesting statistic which, unfortunately, concerns my region. The average annual suicide rate varies from 1.9 to 16.5 per 100,000 depending on the region. The rate is highest in the north of Quebec and in Abitibi.

As you can see, guns are not always put to good use in my riding. The riding of Manicouagan has a very high unemployment rate, which exceeds the average in other ridings.

Geography has somewhat isolated us from big centres, and this is an added stress weighing on residents and is also one of the contributing factors to the high suicide rate. The isolation factor should be considered in the analysis. However, this region is graced with all of nature's splendours, and, like the North Shore region, offers its residents so much untouched nature and free access to the oldest sports on earth: hunting and fishing.

As you guessed, residents of the North Shore need their guns to hunt. They can put them to a full and healthy use and they have proved this for many years.

With or without regulations, these people are able to make proper use of their weapons-for recreational purposes, needless to say.

Although it is important that Bill C-68 meet one of the goals established, namely gun control-no one in the Bloc Quebecois is against this-, we must be very careful not to dig too deeply into taxpayers' pockets under the pretext of exercising some control.

We must ensure, among other things, that the registration fees collected by the department are not a kind of hidden tax. The Bloc Quebecois is very wary of this.

Although we certainly agree with the principle that firearms must be better controlled and monitored, we should also be honest enough to admit that since a large number of firearms are used by suicidal people, gun control and registration will not solve the problem of suicide. Let us not forget that those who try to kill themselves with firearms may do so because they already have them in their possession; if not, the vast majority of them will simply use something else.

In closing, yes, the Bloc Quebecois is in favour of better gun control. We must, however, avoid imposing extra costs on people like those in my riding who do not need them. These people are fed up with having to pay more and more all the time.

With all its facilities designed to control the system, the department is certainly in a position to control travel costs, so that Quebec taxpayers, including those in Manicouagan, do not have to pay excessive costs.

[Joe McGuire, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Madam Speaker, when the Minister of Justice announced his firearms control program in November 1994 he did so after extensive consultation with individuals, groups, organizations and various government departments.

The overwhelming support of the Canadian people for the program shows that the minister listened well and responded to the concerns expressed during that consultative period. Headlines, editorials and columns in newspapers across the country almost unanimously repeat the theme "Gun control law on target".

When we look at our neighbours to the south we see a society that has enshrined in its constitution the right to bear arms. This emphasis on rugged individualism is characterized in part by the fascination with guns in the United States. Its citizens have embraced an all-pervasive, gun-toting culture.

Canadians do not share the American fascination with guns. Our society is essentially different from theirs and in an overwhelming fashion this has been communicated to the Minister of Justice. The minister has proposed legislation which is a reasonable response to the desire of Canadians to maintain a different social and cultural attitude toward guns. Canada must not slip into the gun mentality of the United States. As the minister said: "Canadians do not want to live in a society where they feel they need to own a gun for protection".

I do not believe it is possible to devise gun control legislation that will satisfy all Canadians. However, I do believe that with this legislation the minister has taken a colossal step in the right direction. He has used a two-pronged, balanced approach in attacking the public safety problem on the one side and the use of weapons in criminal activity on the other. The law will not resolve all our problems, but as a Montreal Gazette editorial

stated: "It is a superb and courageous proposal for gun control. It is almost everything that anti-crime advocates could ask for".

The legislation is also a reflection of the wishes and even the demands of the Canadian people, that we toughen our laws and our positions, that we make things tougher for criminals and that we improve the level of safety in the streets and homes of our nation.

The government was given a mandate in the last election to strengthen gun control laws. The Liberal program made that promise. It is most appropriate that the Minister of Justice, with the support of Parliament, move to fulfil it.

Debate on this legislation will provide opponents with the opportunity to seek changes in the areas to which they object. However at the end of the day the will of the majority must prevail. It is most distressing to have Reform Party members indicate that they are not content to seek change but that they will flaunt the will of the majority and put themselves above the law.

It is distressing to hear statements that reflect a kind of wild frontier mentality. "I do not like the law, therefore I will break it". At this point, it is not simply a question of guns or gun control but rather a question of democracy.

The legislative proposals have been dealt with in detail by members who have spoken previously but I feel I should mention some of them again in brief. On the get tough on criminals side of the ledger, there will be a mandatory minimum sentence of four years in prison for the use of a firearm in the commission of any of 10 specific violent offences. This is not only a suitable penalty for such crimes but should also serve as a deterrent to the use of a firearm in the commission of crime.

There will be increased penalties for illegal importing and trafficking of firearms. These will be accomplished by increased border controls and surveillance measures.

On the other side of the ledger-the enhancement of public safety-there are two main items: a law applying to certain types of handguns, the restricted buying and selling of others and a national registration system for all firearms.

This registration will be administered by the RCMP in co-operation with the provinces and territories. Virtually no one has a problem with the get tough on criminals part of the legislation. If there is a criticism, it is that the mandatory sentences are not severe enough.

However when we get to the area of handguns, opposition grows. I believe that the treatment of handguns is eminently defensible. Target shooting and collecting are both legitimate exercises and adequate provisions are made for both of them in the bill. These handguns and certain other prohibited firearms are also able to be bought and sold among existing owners. On the issue of handguns, I want to include a quote from Ontario Judge Hugh Locke.

When delivering a decision involving possession of a restricted weapon, Justice Locke said: "Handguns are the scourge of the human race and their unlawful possession must be totally discouraged. Such weapons are useful for one purpose and one purpose only. They are employed to kill and maim human beings. Our society is plagued with those who feel handguns are a normal part of one's equipment. They are not".

On the subject of registration, nowhere in the legislation does it say that Canadians have to give up their guns. However it does say that Canadians must register all of their guns. Granted, registration is an inconvenience and will have a cost attached but the whole registration process allows for seven years before it is fully mandatory and the cost is minimal.

The minister recognized that the proposed legislation may not yet be in its best or final form. There are concerns about cost, about the treatment of relics and heirlooms and the legitimacy of certain types of guns. The House of Commons Standing Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs will hold hearings so that concerns such as these may be addressed.

Opposition on the basis of slogans such as "registration today, confiscation tomorrow", promoting the idea that a tyrannical government is disarming its citizens to make it easier to suppress and oppose them is nonsense. It is fanatical nonsense and seriously diminishes the credibility of those who espouse such beliefs. When we discuss legislation of this nature, I believe it is important that we talk to the people on the front lines, the ones who live it on a daily basis.

P.E.I. is considered to be quite a peaceful society even by Canadian standards. I would like to put the following letter on the record. This letter is from Transition House and was written by Joanne Ings, executive director:

As you are aware, the P.E.I. Transition House Association operates Anderson House, the Island's only emergency shelter for women and children seeking refuge from family violence. Since Anderson House opened in 1981, we have sheltered 1,800 women and over 2,000 children.

The impetus for gun control legislation came from the shocking murders of women engineering students in Montreal in 1989. The P.E.I. Transition House Association has been a strong supporter of the legislation since its inception. We believe that stricter controls will save lives, particularly lives of women and children who live in violent family situations where unregistered firearms are present.

Many of the women and children who stay at Anderson House are from rural P.E.I. and we have learned from these families that the threat of the use of firearms is a real fear. We understand that the registration of shotguns and other firearms will not stop family violence but statistics prove that registration is a deterrent and does result in fewer deaths by firearms.

If one life will be saved by the passing and proclamation of Minister Rock's legislation it will be worth it. We ask that you support this bill for the safety of women and children in violent family situations and in memory of the women of Montreal.

I believe that the sentiments expressed in this letter are those of the vast majority of Canadians. I believe that the legislation being debated is a compromise which advances the cause of public safety in the community without imposing unreasonable constraints on anyone's personal freedom.

[Val Meredith, Reform, Surrey—White Rock—South Langley, BC]

Madam Speaker, it is a pleasure today to be speaking to this motion to sever Bill C-68 because I think most members enjoy speaking to legislation that makes sense.

A very sensible approach would be to separate Bill C-68 so the House can thoroughly examine the two distinct segments. The section of Bill C-68 that deals with the criminal use of firearms is the only part of the bill that could have a significant effect on improving public safety.

However, this section of the bill, part III, will likely be ignored in public debate. Like many pieces of Liberal legislation there are aspects that are a step in the right direction. However like most government legislation, most of part III does not go far enough and some sections are actually regressive. Because part III has the pretence of being a step in the right direction it will be ignored as critics and supporters of the bill debate the merits of universal registration. I believe it is extremely important that the House thoroughly review part III and that is why this part and the other relevant sections of the bill must be reviewed separately from the registration section.

My Reform colleagues and I wholeheartedly agree with any legislation that would get tough with criminals who use firearms. Unfortunately this bill does not make the grade.

Last June I introduced a private member's bill C-260 that dealt with the criminal use of firearms. In that bill I called for the inclusion of replica firearms in section 85 of the Criminal Code. I did this because crown counsels had informed me that one of the reasons that so few section 85 charges went forward was because it is so difficult to prove that the object that was used in a crime was actually a firearm. The way the legislation has been written the crown had to prove that the object that looked like a firearm was actually a firearm.

Unless the firearm was fired during the commission of the offence or unless the criminal was arrested at the scene of a crime or immediately after in possession of a firearm it was unlikely that a conviction could be won. There was no other way the crown could prove that the object that looked like a firearm actually met the legal definitions of a firearm. Since the crown could not prove that it met the legal definition of a firearm a charge under section 85 could not be laid.

The inclusion of a replica in section 85 would fill that void. My private member's bill treated a replica the same as an actual firearm. There would be no need for the crown to prove that the object was a real firearm.

When robbery victims have what looks like a handgun shoved in their faces they are not in a position to determine if the gun was real or just a replica. The terror they felt at that moment is not mitigated if they learn later that it was just a replica. Does the inclusion of replica in Bill C-68 solve this problem? Unfortunately it does not. It is that ever so typical Liberal small step in the right direction. Someone who uses a replica firearm during-

[The Speaker]

The hon. member will have the floor when we get back after question period. It being 2 p.m., we will now hear statements by members pursuant to Standing Order 31.

Commonwealth Day

[Gurbax Malhi, Liberal, Bramalea—Gore—Malton, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I am honoured to rise in the House today to draw the attention of my hon. colleagues to the importance of Commonwealth Day. The theme of Commonwealth Day 1995 is tolerance.

The Commonwealth stands as a symbol of international co-operation and as a model for all nations of the globe to work in friendship promoting diversity and harmony through tolerance.

Our nation has benefited greatly from its membership in the Commonwealth and in turn Canada has lent its strong support to this venerable institution.

Tragedy In Blanc-Sablon

[Bernard St-Laurent, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Mr. Speaker, first of all, on behalf of the Bloc Quebecois, I wish to extend our sympathies to the families affected by the tragedy that struck Blanc-Sablon, in my riding of Manicouagan, on Friday.

At two o'clock Friday morning, tonnes of snow came tumbling down the mountain to devastate the tiny North Shore village of Blanc-Sablon. A father and his son were killed. It is a miracle that the mother, who was buried under the snow for hours, survived. Had it not been for the outstanding courage of local residents, who defied extreme cold and winds of over 100 kilometres per hour, the toll could have been even worse.

Again, this goes to show that, in Quebec, there are exceptional people prepared to face exceptional circumstances, and the Bloc Quebecois salutes the extraordinary solidarity displayed on this occasion.

Elvis Stojko

[Ed Harper, Reform, Simcoe Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I rise in the House today to congratulate Elvis Stojko on winning his second world figure skating championship.

Elvis displayed unbelievable athletic ability, the grace of a true champion and the humility of a real sportsman. Residents of Barrie in my riding are especially proud as Elvis trains at the Mariposa Figure Skating School under coach Doug Lee. We all have something to be proud of in this young man as he demonstrates the spirit and rich culture of Canada, something our Secretary of State for Multiculturalism would do well to note.

Elvis Stojko, Brian Orser and Kirk Browning, all Canadian and all world champions have placed Canada number one in the world, seven in the last nine years and the tradition continues.

I am sure all members will join with me in paying tribute to this outstanding young Canadian.

United States Border Crossing Fee

[John Maloney, Liberal, Erie, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to express my grave concerns on President Clinton's budget proposals to charge a $3 per vehicle and $1.50 per pedestrian border crossing fee to enter the United States. The proposal has not been withdrawn as we were led to believe but has been altered to put undue pressure on U.S. border communities to encourage implementation.

These proposed fees violate the spirit and intent of the Canada-U.S. Free Trade Agreement and NAFTA. These proposed fees would stifle economic development and economic integration of communities and regions on both sides of the border to the detriment of us all.

These proposed fees would seriously discourage tourism and open travel between our respective countries. They would hamper visitation between families who in a literal sense straddle the border.

These fees are questionable economics and questionable diplomacy in an era of increased trade and goodwill with our friendly neighbour to the south.

I strongly urge the Prime Minister to advise the President of our strongest objection to this unwise, counterproductive and unacceptable tax.

Retaliation is not an answer. Friends do not treat each other this way. Withdrawal of the proposed fees is the only solution. The constituents of Erie riding, of the Niagara peninsula and indeed of the whole country deserve and demand nothing less.

Taxpayers Bill Of Rights

[Alex Shepherd, Liberal, Durham, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to inform the House of my private member's initiative which I have called the taxpayers bill of rights and is currently being drafted.

Summaries of this legislation have been submitted to professional bodies and interest groups across Canada. I would like to thank them for their comments and suggestions. People from British Columbia all the way to Newfoundland have written to me and expressed their support for this initiative.

Greater financial accountability for existing and future programs, the protection of taxpayers from the onerous powers of collection authorities and the establishment of a taxpayers' ombudsman are part of this bill.

Finally and most important, it establishes a cap on the amount of taxation an individual can be subjected to and it provides for refunds over this threshold amount. A gradual reduction of thresholds by 1 per cent per year over the next 15 years will give taxpayers the assurance that we have put limits on the tax grab on disposable incomes.

International Women's Day

[Christiane Gagnon, Bloc, Québec, QC]

Mr. Speaker, March 8 was a perfect opportunity to remember that, over the years, Quebec and Canadian women have made great progress in their efforts to reach equality. All women should be pleased with the progress made, and we should take the means available to us.

I want to salute every woman who quietly goes about her task but whose contribution is essential to our common well-being. I also thank the pioneers and those who played, and continue to play, an active role in women's organizations, so as to ensure better conditions for their fellow women.

Finally, I want to express my solidarity and my admiration to all the women, in many countries, who fight to have their most fundamental rights respected. To those women, I wish to send a message of courage and hope.

Alan Winter

[Randy White, Reform, Fraser Valley West, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I have been asked by a British member of Parliament to raise the Alan Winter case in this House.

Alan Winter was a school trustee in British Columbia who ran a government funded foster home. He was declared a dangerous offender and sentenced to 16 years, yet was released only five and one-half years later on agreement that he leave Canada.

British MP John Denham was outraged to learn recently that this child molester who faced 28 sexual assault charges in 1987 was now living in his riding of Southampton. Mr. Denham writes:

People in Southampton were appalled to learn that he has served only a small part of a lengthy sentence for appalling acts against children. They were equally concerned to learn those agencies responsible for child protection had no knowledge of his presence in the city.

I would be grateful if you could make every effort to raise my concerns and those of my constituents in the Canadian Parliament. I believe that if Mr. Winter was not fit to be released into Canadian society he was not fit for release into my country either.

Chicken Industry

[John Murphy, Liberal, Annapolis Valley—Hants, NS]

Mr. Speaker, Atlantic Canada's chicken industry is in a period of transition. Close to 90 per cent of the province's chicken production comes from my riding of Annapolis Valley-Hants.

In Nova Scotia we have an active and resilient industry that has chosen not to sit still. For example, in my riding much work is being done to capitalize on opportunities in the value-added sector. However, we are grappling with a number of important and potentially divisive issues.

We need to determine how to maintain fair prices for producers and processors. We need to resolve trade concerns with the U.S. relating to the GATT and NAFTA. All provinces must pull together and work in co-operation in order to enhance our national position.

I urge all affected participants, including the federal government, to strive toward achieving a stronger domestic chicken industry. At the end of the day we will all benefit from an industry that works in co-operation and is solid in all regions.

Order Of Canada

[Morris Bodnar, Liberal, Saskatoon—Dundurn, SK]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to bring to the attention of the House the accomplishments of Peggy McKercher and Dr. Louis Horlick of Saskatoon who received the Order of Canada on Wednesday, March 1.

Peggy McKercher was made a member of the Order of Canada for her voluntary service to the residents of Saskatoon. She has spent many hours volunteering for many organizations, including the Meewasin Valley Authority of which she has been chair since its inception. Under her leadership Meewasin has created one of the most beautiful riverfront areas in Canada and has established Wanuskewin Heritage Park which is world recognized for its historical and archaeological importance.

Dr. Louis Horlick was promoted to officer of the Order of Canada. Dr. Horlick, a cardiologist at Royal University Hospital and Professor Emeritus of Medicine at the University of Saskatchewan, is well known for his advocacy in the area of community health and cardiac care. He is respected by students and colleagues alike as an inspiring teacher. As a researcher he has made many contributions to the science of cardiac care.

Let us all take the example of Dr. Horlick and Mrs. McKercher to heart. Their dedication to the community, the fellow citizens of Saskatoon, Saskatchewan and to raising the standard of quality of life that we as-

National Curling Championships

[Reg Alcock, Liberal, Winnipeg South, MB]

Mr. Speaker, every day is a wonderful day to be from Manitoba and today is no exception. Yesterday, Manitoba completed a clean sweep of all national curling championships.

Our junior rinks skipped by Chris Galbraith and Kelly MacKenzie are men's and women's junior champions. Connie Laliberte from my home club won the Scott Tournament of Hearts. Yesterday, the team of Kerry Burtnyk, Jeff Ryan, Rob Meakin, Keith Fenton and Denis Fillion won the Labatt Brier.

I know that all members of this House wish they were from Manitoba. I know they will all join me in wishing Kerry's team the very best of luck in the World Curling Championships to be held in Brandon, Manitoba.

International Women's Day

[Eleni Bakopanos, Liberal, Saint-Denis, QC]

Mr. Speaker, last week, I celebrated International Women's Day with a breakfast for representatives of local organizations working with women in my riding.

The riding of Saint-Denis is very lucky to be able to count on such high quality services from these organizations. Women in poverty, dealing with violence in the home or recently arrived in Canada are some of those they serve.

I take this opportunity to draw attention to the fine work done by these organizations and encourage them to continue their efforts.

Canadians only stand to benefit from the full contribution of women in our society. This struggle for equality does not seek to condemn men but to work with them in creating, as our slogan for this year says, a world of equality.

There is still a way to go before equality is achieved, but women's voices are being heard; we cannot ignore them any longer. One day, equality will become reality.

Unemployment

[Jean H. Leroux, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Mr. Speaker, this year, Quebec will experience a shortfall of $118 million in unemployment insurance.

In the past, federalists sang the praises of Canadian federalism saying that Quebec was a net beneficiary of the unemployment insurance program. The fact is that Quebec's rate of unemployment under the federal scheme is systematically higher than Canada's. This is what we get out of federalism.

The government in Ottawa is hindering job creation in Quebec, in particular, by putting only 15.9 per cent of its investments there, although 23 per cent of its revenues come from there.

Not only did the latest budget hinder job creation by precluding the transfer to Quebec of full powers in manpower training, but it proposed no active job creation measures.

Immigration

[Art Hanger, Reform, Calgary Northeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, this morning Canadians read about a woman who came to Canada from the United States and then claimed refugee status. She was turned down and removed back to the U.S. until she could get a taxpayer funded legal aid assisted appeal.

The initial hearing stage took so long that the claimant now has a two and one-half year old daughter born in Canada who is a Canadian citizen. This child will have to remain in Canada while her mother is removed to the U.S.

The Reform Party would never have allowed this travesty to occur. We would not accept refugee claimants from the United States. We would not allow claims to go on and on for two and one-half years. We would not allow children born of illegal immigrants to automatically acquire Canadian citizenship.

The minister calls our proposals hard hearted. In fact, these measures would have prevented this latest immigration outrage and would have saved taxpayers tens of thousands of dollars. If this government had the interests of genuine refugees and taxpayers at heart, it would adopt our proposals and stop a system that encourages abuse.

Skating Coach Harold Sher

[Andy Mitchell, Liberal, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I rise in the House today to pay tribute to one of my constituents, Mr. Harold Sher. Mr. Sher has been a precision skating coach in my riding for the past 15 years. His most recent competition epitomizes the success he has enjoyed.

Sher's four teams from the Bracebridge figure skating club made a clean sweep of first-place finishes at the northern Ontario sectional and invitational competition held last month. The four teams came away with eight gold medals. This outstanding success qualifies the teams for the Canadian championships to be held in Calgary later this spring. Last year his adult team, the Muskoka Blades, won silver at this championship, while his junior blades won gold in the consolation round.

I wish Harold and all of the skaters the best of luck as they go for gold in Calgary next month.

Havelock Country Jamboree

[Peter Adams, Liberal, Peterborough, ON]

Mr. Speaker, August 10 of this year will be the first day of the sixth annual Havelock Country Jamboree. It kicks off country music week in Peterborough city and county.

The jamboree is a success story in our region. It is a showplace for musical talent. It is a boost for local businesses. It attracts thousands of tourists to and generates publicity for the Peterborough area.

Last year the jamboree helped Havelock minor hockey, St. John Ambulance, the scouts, the Terry Fox run, the March of Dimes and the local food bank.

It is great that grassroots ventures like the Havelock Country Jamboree can generate so many benefits simply by bringing pleasure to thousands of people. Our thanks to Jack Blakely and all his helpers.

Firearms Registry

[Garry Breitkreuz, Reform, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Mr. Speaker, less than two weeks ago, on Tuesday, February 28 the Saskatchewan Legislative Assembly unanimously passed the following resolution:

That this Assembly transcend party lines and join together in demanding the federal government immediately withdraw Bill C-68, the Firearms Act, which will effectively impose a costly and unnecessary national firearms registry that will have no effect on controlling violent crimes in Canada, and that this Assembly send an all-party delegation to make representation to the Standing Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs outlining this Assembly's intense opposition to the proposed firearms registry; and further, following adoption of this motion, that Mr. Speaker forward to the federal Minister of Justice a copy of this resolution with the relevant transcripts from today's proceedings.

My constituents and I also want to register our intense opposition. I concur with the unanimous vote of the Saskatchewan legislature calling for the immediate withdrawal of Bill C-68 respecting the Firearms Act.

Fisheries

[Lucien Bouchard, Bloc, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, turbot is the last remaining species which can be fished off the coast of Newfoundland in the wake of the scourge of overfishing on cod, ocean perch and plaice. For this reason, it is imperative that we protect turbot stocks. The official opposition, therefore, supports the government's decision to put an end to the overfishing of turbot, which led it to board the Spanish vessel Estai .

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

[Lucien Bouchard, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

My question is for the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans. Drawing on information gathered by inspectors who have boarded the Spanish vessel Estai , will the fisheries minister tell us whether officials from the Department of Fisheries and Oceans have found any irregularities which could be used to support Canada's position?

[Brian Tobin, Liberal, Minister of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the Leader of the Opposition for raising this question and for the considerable support that the Bloc Quebecois has given to the government regarding this issue.

Concerning the catches found aboard the Estai , we found that up to 70 per cent of all of the fish caught were small and immature. This is an important issue for the fishermen of Nova Scotia, Newfoundland, New Brunswick, Quebec and Prince Edward Island. This is clear. Atlantic fishermen have unanimously called on the government to take effective action.

As the Leader of the Opposition has asked, we have commenced inspection aboard the vessel. Based on the preliminary estimates, not the completed and full inspection, more than 70 per cent of all stock found aboard the vessel is very small, sexually immature fish not capable of reproduction. Some 30 per cent were less than 14 inches, 21 per cent less than 12 inches, and 22 per cent less than 9 inches. A good chunk of the fish are smaller than this pen.