House of Commons Hansard #168 of the 35th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was equality.

Topics

Department Of The EnvironmentOral Question Period

2:55 p.m.

Bloc

Benoît Sauvageau Bloc Terrebonne, QC

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of the Environment.

On December 14, in reply to a question about some land in Vancouver belonging to the Squamish band which the federal government has been leasing, the minister said the following: "I made arrangements to inform the band that future payments after this fiscal year should cease and desist".

Will the minister confirm that the lease payments which already cost Canadian taxpayers $26 million have in fact "ceased and desisted", as she promised us on December 14, since officials from her own department say the opposite is true?

Department Of The EnvironmentOral Question Period

2:55 p.m.

Hamilton East Ontario

Liberal

Sheila Copps LiberalDeputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment

I can assure the hon. member that, when I answered that question, we had informed the band in question that, after the end of the calendar year, we would not pay them one penny more. And our position on this issue is firm.

The BudgetOral Question Period

2:55 p.m.

Reform

Herb Grubel Reform Capilano—Howe Sound, BC

Mr. Speaker, accountants in Canada are in an uproar. The budget proposes to make all professional income statements due at the end of December rather than throughout the year. Accounting costs will skyrocket because of the need for overtime and extra staff at year end. These extra costs will be passed on to the professionals.

Had the Minister of Finance consulted with accountants and professionals on this matter?

The BudgetOral Question Period

2:55 p.m.

LaSalle—Émard Québec

Liberal

Paul Martin LiberalMinister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec

Mr. Speaker, over the course of the last year we had consulted with many Canadians on all of the issues that were in the budget.

The hon. member undoubtedly knows that provided professionals the opportunity to defer, for one full year, income otherwise taxable. It gave them a substantial advantage over other Canadians.

Given the government's commitment to making sure that the taxation system is fair and that all Canadians pay their fair share, we closed that loophole.

The BudgetOral Question Period

2:55 p.m.

The Speaker

Now to single questions. The hon. member for Sherbrooke.

Stay In School ProgramOral Question Period

2:55 p.m.

Progressive Conservative

Jean Charest Progressive Conservative Sherbrooke, QC

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Human Resources Development or for anyone who would be willing to give me an answer. It concerns the Stay in School job program which was introduced five years ago for the benefit of young people still in school. Its goal is to directly discourage young people from dropping out of school. Groups which are interested in this issue and which try to encourage young people heard recently that the program would be discontinued.

I would like to hear from the government itself whether it is true that the program will be dropped.

Stay In School ProgramOral Question Period

2:55 p.m.

Saint-Maurice Québec

Liberal

Jean Chrétien LiberalPrime Minister

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Human Resources Development has just left the House. He will return in a few minutes, and could perhaps answer the hon. member at three o'clock or the next time he is in the House.

MedicareOral Question Period

2:55 p.m.

NDP

Len Taylor NDP The Battlefords—Meadow Lake, SK

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister, who yesterday was in Saskatchewan talking about medicare.

At the same time in Saskatchewan, members of the medicare community who had been involved in the fight to implement it over 30 years ago, including former Premier Allan Blakeney, were sounding warning bells for Canadians. Mr. Blakeney in particular said that by eliminating specific funding to the provinces in favour of reduced block transfers with few strings attached will result in a patchwork medical insurance system with different standards in different provinces.

How can the government continue to claim it is defending the principles of medicare when four of the sculptures of medicare are telling us these reforms are going to lead to a patchwork?

MedicareOral Question Period

2:55 p.m.

Saint-Maurice Québec

Liberal

Jean Chrétien LiberalPrime Minister

Mr. Speaker, if these four sculptures, as he called them, had waited

until this morning, they would not have had to hold a press conference because I stated very clearly that medicare will remain as it is.

The EconomyOral Question Period

March 16th, 1995 / 2:55 p.m.

Liberal

Dianne Brushett Liberal Cumberland—Colchester, NS

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Finance.

In light of recent press reports, both domestically and internationally, reporting favourably on Canada's economy, could the minister tell the House why the economic indicators are looking so good?

The EconomyOral Question Period

3 p.m.

LaSalle—Émard Québec

Liberal

Paul Martin LiberalMinister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec

Mr. Speaker, as the member undoubtedly knows because she follows this very closely, our growth is up. We are leading the G-7. Our productivity record is superb. Our inflation is very low.

Undoubtedly she is referring to more recent indicators. The composite leading indicator in February was up by 0.5 per cent. In January it was up by 0.6 per cent. Undoubtedly she was referring to the fact that our manufacturing shipments in January were up by 28 per cent over last year.

Business Of The HouseOral Question Period

3 p.m.

Bloc

Michel Gauthier Bloc Roberval, QC

Mr. Speaker, I nearly forgot to ask this important question. I would like the hon. government House leader to tell us about the business planned for the next few days.

Business Of The HouseOral Question Period

3 p.m.

Windsor West Ontario

Liberal

Herb Gray LiberalLeader of the Government in the House of Commons and Solicitor General of Canada

Mr. Speaker, on Friday, as announced earlier, we will have an opposition day.

On Monday the House will consider Bill C-73 respecting borrowing authority followed by Bill C-68 respecting firearms. Tuesday will be an opposition day again.

On Wednesday the House will consider second reading of Bill C-72 regarding intoxication and when this is completed we will return to the business of Monday at the point it was left off.

Thursday will be another opposition day, the last in the present supply period, which means the House will be asked at the end of the day to vote on final supplementary estimates and interim supply.

On Friday we will begin the second reading stage of the budget implementation bill which we had intended to introduce today but whose introduction has been delayed for technical reasons.

I would like to express thanks to the opposition parties for their co-operation in facilitating discussion and decision last night on the bill to enable work to resume at the port of Vancouver. This attitude on their part is certainly appreciated.

PrivilegeOral Question Period

3 p.m.

The Speaker

My colleagues, yesterday, March 15, the hon. Leader of the Opposition rose on a question of privilege relating to an exchange that had occurred March 14 during question period between him and the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment. Having heard from both parties, the Chair undertook to review the situation and the records of the original exchange and to return to the House. I am now ready to rule on the matter.

I have carefully reviewed the comments from both hon. members. I thank them for their interventions. With regard to the basic differences of opinion that exist between them I must conclude this is a dispute as to facts or interpretation of facts. As such, it is a matter of debate and does not constitute a prima facie case of privilege.

However, on careful review of the records of the original exchange, the Chair has found some troubling anomalies. As I see it, it is these anomalies to which the hon. Leader of the Opposition takes exception and it is here that the Chair must take action to grant him redress.

Let me review the sequence of events which leads me to this conclusion. The original exchange on March 14 took place in French. It was taped and transcribed; the transcription was edited; the edited transcript was, as usual, distributed to the intervenors for review. The Office of the Deputy Premier Minister reviewed the transcript as usual and submitted, as is its right, two suggested changes to the blues. However, in the view of the Chair, these suggested changes ought not to have been accepted nor printed as the official record for they constitute a substantive difference to the original spoken words of the hon. member. To further complicate matters, these changes appear in the French Hansard but are not reflected in the English version which is, instead, a literal translation of the original spoken word.

Therefore, to correct these anomalies, I have instructed my officials to print a corrigendum in today's Hansard so that both the French and the English version of the March 14 exchange will faithfully reflect the original spoken words of the hon. Deputy Prime Minister.

I have asked the Clerk of the House to ensure that the editors of Hansard adhere strictly to the long established criteria in determining what changes are accepted when members submit suggestions for changes when they return their blues.

I trust this remedial action will close this matter.

The House resumed consideration of the motion.

SupplyGovernment Orders

3:05 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Maheu)

Resuming debate. The hon. member for Calgary North.

I would ask the hon. member for Roberval to withdraw what he said.

SupplyGovernment Orders

3:05 p.m.

Bloc

Michel Gauthier Bloc Roberval, QC

Madam Speaker, I wish you would tell me what you want me to withdraw. I did not have the impression I made an intervention.

SupplyGovernment Orders

3:05 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Maheu)

I can check the blues, but I also heard you here, when you used a word we are not in the habit of using in this House.

SupplyGovernment Orders

3:05 p.m.

Bloc

Michel Gauthier Bloc Roberval, QC

Madam Speaker, I was simply making a reference, strictly off mike, to the Deputy Prime Minister.

SupplyGovernment Orders

3:05 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Maheu)

I can check the blues. If the words do not appear, I will apologize.

SupplyGovernment Orders

3:05 p.m.

Bloc

Michel Gauthier Bloc Roberval, QC

Madam Speaker, I would appreciate it if you would check the blues.

SupplyGovernment Orders

3:05 p.m.

Liberal

Don Boudria Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON

Madam Speaker, when you check the blues of the proceedings, perhaps I may suggest two points the Chair may wish to consider. First of all, when a parliamentarian says that another parliamentarian has, and I quote: "the right to lie", this reflects on the parliamentarians who, if this is true, did in fact lie, and of course we do not have the right to accuse a parliamentarian of doing so.

However, this also challenges the decision made earlier by the Chair with respect to a difference of opinion that existed, because saying that another parliamentarian allegedly had the right to lie implies that he or she had been given that right by someone else. In this case, the person who ruled on the matter happens to be the Speaker of this House, so the hon. member opposite has in fact challenged the decision of the Speaker.

SupplyGovernment Orders

3:05 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Maheu)

The blues will be checked, and I will get back to you as soon as they are available. The hon. Opposition Whip, on a point of order.

SupplyGovernment Orders

3:05 p.m.

Bloc

Gilles Duceppe Bloc Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC

Madam Speaker, since you are going to check the blues, perhaps you could check yesterday's blues as well, since the Deputy Prime Minister stated here in the House that she had not suggested any corrections in Hansard , and this did not appear in today's Hansard . I assume everyone heard her, since the Minister of Transport even applauded and expressed his support. Some things appear in the blues and some do not. This is appalling. Sometimes it is enough to give you the blues, Madam Speaker.

SupplyGovernment Orders

3:10 p.m.

Reform

Diane Ablonczy Reform Calgary North, AB

Madam Speaker, this has to be one of the most interrupted speeches that I have ever had the pleasure of giving. This speech actually started over an hour ago and I had about two minutes to begin, so it is kind of hard to get a flow of thought when one is off again, on again. Perhaps I could start from the top and get through it this time without any interruptions.

The lesson of history is one of personal struggle leading to achievement. This has been very true for many of us in the House. I know of a member opposite who came from another country, did not know any English, started out by waiting tables and now is a member of the House. There are many such stories. I shared a bit earlier the kind of struggles I have gone through.

Many of us have become contributing members of society, business and professional people, helping others making a life for ourselves. Many of us have done this before, these kinds of affirmative action programs, these kinds of let us give people equality movements even started.

Canadians are able and willing to make it on their own merits. We have a very high level of merit. There are many unsung heroes. We will not see them on public platforms. They will not be getting any awards but they have been decent, honest, hard working citizens caring for each other, above and beyond the call of duty to hold out a hand of help and encouragement to others. We need to start judging success on the standards by which many Canadians judge themselves. Many Canadians judge success on what they have been able to give as individuals, not what they have been able to get.

Canadians have figured out what most of us figured out a long time ago, that life is not fair. There is a saying that if you would

only accept the fact that life is hard it would be so much easier for you. We continually have people who should know better standing up in the House and saying we have to make things easier for people. We have to make things fairer. Canadians know life is what we make it.

We are talking today about the notion of equality. Equality is essentially fairness and impartiality. That is what the dictionary says. Government cannot make life fair. Parliament cannot create fairness any more than it can legislate goodness or compassion.

Calvin Coolidge, a former president of the United States, said: "The people cannot look to legislation generally for success. Industry, thrift and character are not conferred by act or resolve. Government cannot relieve from toil. It can provide no substitute for the rewards of service. It can of course care for the defective and recognize distinguished merit. The normal must care for themselves. Self-government means self-support".

Does this mean we should find unfairness and discrimination acceptable? Of course not, and we do not. It is not government that helps us to act fairly and impartially. This must come from an act of decision by ourselves as individuals.

Government is really just us. Government is part of us. It is something we create as a society. It is a reflection especially in a democracy of what we want for ourselves. That is why we choose representatives from us to carry out our wishes. Somehow there is a feeling that government should create the kind of ethic that is not otherwise present.

There are things we can and should do as individuals to act more fairly and more impartially. We should do those but it is not something that can be legislated.

Canadians want to see people treated as individuals. We are significant in and of ourselves because we are us, so to speak. We do not have to gain significance because of how we relate in a group. We are significant as ourselves, not as something that is labelled, not because we are women or because we are vertically challenged or because we have more pigment in our skins than some other people. Those things are not relevant.

What is relevant is what is in our hearts, what we are capable of, how we strive to achieve the things that are important to us. That is what is significant. We need to realize that is the sort of self-reliance and desire for excellence that should be promoted.

There seems to be a feeling in this country that somehow somebody owes us something, that we are entitled to the things that for centuries we have struggled to achieve. Now they are owed to us and must be delivered to us. This is not practical. It is not common sense. It flies in the face of every experience in human history.

Some of these notions have been tried in other countries. In the United States, this sort of movement to deliver so-called equality to different groups has not succeeded. The disadvantages have outweighed the very real good that was thought to be promoted by these kinds of programs. It is not that the intention behind these programs was not good; it was very good. We all want fairness. We all want people to achieve their full potential.

I would submit this is not something that can be delivered to people. It is only something we can work for and earn. We can ensure that people have the best opportunities to succeed in those goals by treating them as individuals, by allowing them to have equality of opportunity but letting the result of that opportunity rest with the individual.

Abraham Lincoln said that if you have what it takes, the world will take what you have. I believe that is true. We do not and should not be splitting the world into groups. We should be working together as valuable members of society, as individuals with full potential.

It is important that each one of us make a commitment in our dealings with each other to be fair and impartial, both publicly and privately. It is something we need, but not as something legislated, not as something that is owed to us. It should be something we work and strive together to achieve. It cannot be legislated. It would destroy what we want to have in the spirit of individuals to act otherwise.

I think we each applaud the notion of the hon. member's motion. We want to have equality of opportunity. Our charter of rights says we are equal before and under the laws of this country and that must be maintained. However, to give special preference and special assistance to people is to deny them the right to meet their goals on their own merit with their own achievements. We should not be moving in the direction of this motion.