Debates of March 2nd, 1995

Canadian Broadcasting Corporation

[Michel Dupuy, Liberal, Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Speaker, we know that our colleague would like to see the disappearance of the CBC as a public broadcaster in spite of the great credit it has earned itself over the years for Canada.

This does not surprise me. Not such a long time ago when the issue she raised was that of a country program with one Canadian program and channel to be defended against an American channel, she took the side of the American channel. Not only that, the Canadian channel was located in her own riding.

The Budget

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister. In his budget plan, the Minister of Finance says he must ensure that the old age security program is financially sustainable. Yet, in response to a question on the changes planned by the government to the old age pension plan, the minister deliberately tried to dodge the issue by talking about the Canada Pension Plan, which is something else entirely.

Since the Minister of Finance claims that the current old age pension plan has become unsustainable, can the Prime Minister confirm his government's intention to reduce benefits and access to this plan?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, we have no intention of reducing benefits and access to this plan. However, all social programs must be reviewed. That is what the Minister of Human Resources Development is doing.

Studies were conducted in other areas, and the Canada Pension Plan, which is the pension paid to citizens in Canada, needs to be reviewed at this time. It is something we have to do in any case, in preparation for an upcoming meeting with provincial governments, and because programs are dovetailed to a certain extent.

The Minister of Human Resources Development intends to review the whole question, which is very important for the future of seniors in Canada. This government does not favour the status quo. It has the capacity to review all elements of the social policy.

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, changing the status quo may affect benefits and access, as well.

Since the study on old age pensions, which had been scheduled for last year, has been deferred once again, are we to understand that the government does not want to debate publicly, before the Quebec referendum, its plan to cut old age pensions?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I would really like to know when this referendum will be held and whether there will even be a referendum. After reading in the newspapers about the differences and contradictions among opposition members on this subject, how can I know when the referendum will be held? We are not influenced by that, since they are not even able to agree on a question.

If they want to win the referendum, all they have to do is ask the very short, very clear question that I am suggesting. If they want a guaranteed "yes", they only have to ask the following question: Do you want to stay in Canada? And Quebecers will say yes.

Indian Affairs

[Dick Harris, Reform, Prince George—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the Auditor General has severely criticized the department of Indian affairs for its lack of financial accountability, its lack of program monitoring and its lack of program evaluation. Yet instead of being cut back like all the other departments in the government, Indian affairs actually received a $447 million increase in its budget.

Considering that it is well documented that Indian affairs spending is out of control and has a serious lack of accountability, how can the minister even begin to justify an increase in his department's budget?

[Ron Irwin, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased the hon. member asked that. The Reform party has attempted to get quite a bit of misinformation throughout the country, but not with very much success. Most people who have looked at the budget, and obviously the Reform has not, will know that the birthrate in the aboriginal community is two and half times that of the white community. Next year per capita the aboriginal person will receive less than they do now.

To do those things as we said in the red book, in addition to the 442 people we already laid off, we will be laying off another 300 people. We will be freezing salaries at the ministry, as the member knows. We will also be freezing salaries in the aboriginal communities and we will be cutting $15 million from the northern development program.

That is the reality, not the myths that the member and his party are spreading throughout the country.

[Dick Harris, Reform, Prince George—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, let us be clear about this. Mismanagement is the problem, not money. Both the Auditor General and the Indian affairs department's own internal audits have reported a plague of serious financial mismanagement both at the departmental level and at the band level.

How can the minister of Indian affairs stand and defend this $447 million increase in his budget without first getting the mess in his department cleaned up?

[Ron Irwin, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, this member has 23 First Nations in his riding. Maybe for once he will stand and defend one of them.

This member will talk about those bands that have troubles. Sure those bands have troubles. However, over 80 per cent of the 600 bands in this country are managing their affairs. For the 152 that require help, we are giving them help. Eight-five per cent as of January have remedial action plans in place which means they, like us, are cutting staff. They are deferring housing. They are cutting much of their infrastructure and they are dropping programs. That is the reality.

Canada Health Act

[Pauline Picard, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the Prime Minister said that the federal government had no intention of giving up its control levers over the health sector. Meanwhile, the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs alluded for the first time to the possibility of reviewing the Canada Health Act.

How does the Prime Minister reconcile the comments made by his minister, who clearly mentioned the possibility of amending the Canada Health Act, with his own statement to the effect that the government intends to keep all its control levers over the health sector?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, it is easy. We, on this side of the House, keep repeating it. The minister said it: the five principles governing the Canada Health Act will remain in force.

There may be circumstances where some amendments could be made. However, we will not compromise on the principles: they are there to stay. There is no contradiction between that position and the possibility of discussing certain changes which could benefit both the federal government and the provinces. However, the five principles will not be changed.

[Pauline Picard, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Speaker, since, according to the Prime Minister, the Canada Health Act will not be opened up, how does he explain the statement made by his Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs?

[Marcel Massé, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada]

Mr. Speaker, what I said very clearly in Quebec City is exactly what the Prime Minister stated, namely that the five standards governing the Canada Health Act would remain in effect.

What I said regarding the Canada social transfer was that we could, through mutual consent, change existing conditions applicable to social assistance. This is absolutely true and in accordance with what was said. Again, as I said yesterday during the press conference, the five standards governing the Canada Health Act will not be touched.

Fisheries

[Ron MacDonald, Liberal, Dartmouth, NS]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the minister of fisheries. Canada is standing firm on its position that the European union must adhere to NAFO's set quotas for turbot on the Grand Banks. However, the Europeans in a continuing campaign of misinformation are telling anybody who will listen that Canadian fishermen do not need, do not want and cannot catch the Canadian quota for turbot.

I ask the minister to confirm whether this is fact or fiction. Are Canadian fishermen ready, willing and able to take the rightful quota that has been set for them through NAFO?

[Brian Tobin, Liberal, Minister of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for his question. Canadians have shown a tremendous interest this year in taking 60 per cent of the quota assigned to Canada by NAFO.

I am informed that in the 35 to 40-foot category somewhere between 200 and 500 boats are now gearing up to participate in the fishery. From the sixty-five to one hundred foot category, five vessels are now gearing up. From the fifty-five to sixty-five foot category, forty vessels are now gearing up.

For the first time in a decade Canadian offshore vessels, vessels from fisheries products, internationals and national sea, are going to the offshore to catch turbot to take the Canadian share. One left yesterday at noon. One will leave in 45 minutes. They are going out on the continental shelf beyond 200 miles and they are going to take Canada's share of the turbot quota.

The Budget

[Leon Benoit, Reform, Vegreville, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the Liberal budget eliminates the WGTA subsidy by August 1 of this year, cuts the dairy subsidy by 30 per cent, cuts safety net programs by 30 per cent, and eliminates the feed freight assistance.

The government has taken away the funding but has not taken away the unnecessary regulation that would cut costs, allowing farmers to recoup some of these losses.

I have a question for the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food. When will the minister reduce unnecessary regulation and specifically how will he make the system work better for less?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Mr. Speaker, as the hon. gentleman will know, over the course of the last year or so some good progress has been made in dealing with regulatory issues. We have passed in the House new legislation pertaining to the Canada Grain Act, which is a step in that direction, to improve the regulatory situation.

Certainly a major part of our western grain transportation reform plan is an efficiency package, which is being worked upon by the Minister of Transport and myself in consultation with all stakeholders in the western Canadian grain handling system, to develop a system in western Canada that is substantially lower in cost overall, certainly much more efficient than it is today and faster in getting our grain to the markets where it needs to be.

[Leon Benoit, Reform, Vegreville, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I think Canadian farmers would expect a little better answer than that. Certainly any farmer would know that the minister better have a plan in place before cutting the WGTA funding.

How many years will it take the minister to hold the discussions as laid out in the discussion paper and prepare a plan to replace the current system?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Mr. Speaker, the discussions with respect to the efficiencies package have been ongoing now for several months with the active involvement of 14 or 15 farm organizations in western Canada, together with a variety of other stakeholders in the industry.

We have indicated to the stakeholders participating in the discussions that as soon as the fiscal framework was tabled in the House in the form of the budget, which of course happened on Monday of this week, we would want to proceed very quickly with the finalization of the details.

Therefore, as far as the efficiencies package is concerned to the extent that it requires legislation, that legislation can be concluded conceptually within the course of the next month. It can be presented to Parliament this spring and enacted into law before June 1995.

Royal Canadian Mounted Police

[Michel Bellehumeur, Bloc, Berthier—Montcalm, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Prime Minister.

This morning, La Presse reported that Libertina Rizzuto and Luca Giammarella, suspected by the Swiss authorities of trying to launder $3 million through Swiss banks, were released, although the investigation continues. It seems their release came as a result of the half-hearted assistance the RCMP gave Swiss police authorities.

Could the Prime Minister explain why the RCMP failed to give the Swiss authorities their full co-operation when they refused to provide information crucial to legal proceedings in Switzerland?

[Patrick Gagnon, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Solicitor General]

Mr. Speaker, I have just been advised of this case, and I will make a note of the opposition critic's question.

[Michel Bellehumeur, Bloc, Berthier—Montcalm, QC]

Mr. Speaker, on a supplementary. What explanation does the Prime Minister have for the fact that the only officer familiar with the case involving Mrs. Rizzuto and Mr. Giammarella was on holiday when the Swiss authorities had to release these two individuals, failing the co-operation of the RCMP?

[Patrick Gagnon, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Solicitor General]

Mr. Speaker, I will not comment on the operations of the RCMP. I think it is clear there will be an investigation, and the Solicitor General will be able to respond to the opposition member's question in due time.

Fisheries

[John Cummins, Reform, Delta, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister.

Notwithstanding the blustering of the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans, 45 to 50 European vessels are currently fishing Canadian turbot just outside Canada's territorial limit. Reports indicate that they have exceeded their NAFO quota and have unilaterally established an EU quota of 70 per cent of the total allowable catch.

When will the Prime Minister recognize that the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans has failed to protect Canada's fish stocks, intervene and try to negotiate a settlement with the EU?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, many Canadians think the Minister of Fisheries has been the best fighter that we have ever had for the fisheries.