Debates of March 27th, 1995

Kanesatake Reserve

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it was reported in the media last weekend that some individuals illegally took possession of Oka residences bought by the federal government. Apparently, these actions were based on the "might is right" rule.

How can the Minister of Indian Affairs explain that the "might is right" rule still applies in Kanesatake, and that these federal properties are illegally occupied?

[Ron Irwin, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to report to the hon. member that between Judge Réjean Paul and the negotiator Michel Robert a housing authority was set up and 178 individuals were assessed on the basis of need. They were categorized. The houses have been allocated. A couple are giving problems but overall the process is working.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the media were not reporting minor problems but a major one, which is the illegal occupation of federal properties.

Given that the majority of honest citizens put their names on waiting lists to be allowed to live in these houses, will the Minister of Indian Affairs confirm that his officials are negotiating leases with those who took illegal possession of these properties, so as to regularize their occupancy as quickly as possible?

[Ron Irwin, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, the situation north of highway 344 still persists. I am pleased to report to the member that because of the progress made south of 344 and the process in place based on need, we are now making some progress north of 344 which I inherited.

Pearson International Airport

[Jim Gouk, Reform, Kootenay West—Revelstoke, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister. Serious allegations are being made about the Prime Minister's role in the Pearson privatization contract.

Not only has he met on numerous occasions with parties in the Claridge group but there are now questions on whether he advised the Matthews Group in its contract bid on Pearson airport.

Will the Prime Minister indicate to the House the nature of the advice as a lawyer or otherwise given to Jack Matthews specifically or the Matthews Group generally with respect to the privatization of Pearson airport?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, as I said in French, I never gave advice about the privatization of the Toronto airport to anybody involved. The allegation is absolutely false.

[Jim Gouk, Reform, Kootenay West—Revelstoke, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister previously suggested there is no conflict of interest with him on Pearson because he is the one who cancelled the deal.

Given that Matthews refused to donate to the Prime Minister's leadership campaign and donated instead to that of his principal competitor, will the Prime Minister submit himself to a full review by the ethics counsellor and then table that report in the House?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, we never talked about it and he did not give me a damn cent. Therefore there is absolutely no conflict of interest.

Kanesatake Reserve

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Indian Affairs.

While honest citizens are eager to move into properties bought by the federal government, the normal allocation process is jeopardized by the illegal occupation of these houses. Indeed,

these Kanesatake residences are illegally occupied and the minister is aware of that.

Will the minister confirm that those who illegally and forcefully occupy these federal properties will be excluded from the waiting lists and that these lists will only contain the names of those who fully complied with the law?

[Ron Irwin, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, this is the same question that was just put to me. It is identical.

One hundred and seventy-eight people have been assessed. Houses have been allocated. Three or four south of 344 are causing us problems, but that is nothing like the problem I inherited. We all inherited Oka which wasted $230 million of Quebec and federal government money.

This is a much better way to deal with the problem, not to aggravate it but to negotiate in good faith and solve it.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the minister knows that some properties are still illegally occupied in Kanesatake. He is not answering our questions.

Following the discussions he had with his negotiator, Michel Robert, can the minister tell us if the allocation of the residences bought by the federal government will take place in the near future and in compliance with the criteria set by the government?

[Ron Irwin, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, I will answer the question directly. If my friend wants to be positive, he should go to the Quebec government and have the Quebec government recognize the peacekeepers at Oka.

Health

[Diane Ablonczy, Reform, Calgary North, AB]

Mr. Speaker, my question for the Minister of Finance is with regard to the new Canada health and social transfer.

The CHST states that health care transfers to provinces may be reduced or cut off whenever the Minister of Health "is satisfied" that a province is not in line with her own interpretation of the Canada Health Act. The cabinet then gets to decide how much funding is cut from the province. This sounds like a recipe for arbitrary command from Ottawa.

Why is the formula of funding reductions not based on an impartial formula laid out in the law?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, we made it very clear that the new social transfer would incorporate the principles of the Canada Health Act. Indeed, it is those principles and those principles alone that will govern. There is no discretion. It is the Canada Health Act and that is the covenant of this government.

[Diane Ablonczy, Reform, Calgary North, AB]

Mr. Speaker, it makes no sense for the government to claim that the best way to maintain the standards in the Canada Health Act is by cutting off funding every time a province tries to innovate. The Minister of Health will have the power to arbitrarily yank the plug on federal health care spending.

Can she explain to this House how this is supposed to improve the quality of health care in Canada?

[Diane Marleau, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, the Canada Health Act remains as is. It has not nor is it meant to prevent innovation. It is meant to preserve and maintain those principles which have served Canadians very well, which Canadians expect and indeed deserve to have to protect them.

Turkey

[Jean H. Leroux, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Foreign Affairs. Last Friday, the government repeated that Canada was very concerned about the Turkish military offensive against the Kurds in northern Iraq and said that it would meet with the Turkish ambassador regarding the issue. Today, there is every indication that Turkey firmly intends to carry on with its forays.

Will the minister confirm whether Canada has indeed raised this issue with other NATO members, as the Minister of National Defence led us to believe last week, and will he tell us what measures Canada and NATO intend to take to make Turkey see reason?

[André Ouellet, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, in reply to the hon. member's question, I can say that we have not done so.

[Jean H. Leroux, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Mr. Speaker, if the minister wants to be taken seriously, at a time when it has come to light that civilians have been hurt in the Turkish offensive, does he intend to refer the matter to the UN's Security Council and to immediately suspend all negotiations regarding the sale of our CF-5 jets to Turkey?

[André Ouellet, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I have already said in this House that we were only at the preliminary stages of negotiating the sale of these airplanes and that a number of countries or potential buyers

were being considered. Therefore, the hon. member is wrong when he implies that we are pursuing advanced negotiations with Turkey. They have not reached an advanced stage at all.

[Stan Dromisky, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Atikokan, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Foreign Affairs. It concerns something raised regarding negotiations to sell Canadian CF-5 fighter jets to Turkey, a country which according to Amnesty International is "a serious and systemic violator of human rights".

Can the minister possibly assure this House that these Canadian planes will not be used to jeopardize the rights of innocent people?

[André Ouellet, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for asking me a question similar to the one I just answered. I can confirm that the negotiations regarding the sale of the CF-5 jets are at a very preliminary stage. Canada is studying the possibility of selling them to a number of people who have shown interest.

I can also confirm what I just said to the hon. member, which was that there is no cause for concern with regard to Turkey, since negotiations are at a very preliminary stage and since, at any rate, the government rigorously reviews sales of this kind and obtains specific commitments from purchasing countries. Undoubtedly, we will take every action necessary to ensure that whatever country buys the jets, be it Turkey or another, it would not use them against civilians.

National Defence

[Bob Ringma, Reform, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the answer of the Minister of National Defence to previous questions on the Somalia inquiry were totally inadequate. The point remains whether the inquiry is or is not going to be impartial and conducted at arm's length.

Will the minister replace Anne-Marie Doyle with someone whose impartiality is unquestioned?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I already answered that question.

[An hon. member]

Cover-up.