Debates of March 27th, 1995

National Defence

[Bob Ringma, Reform, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the minister's unwillingness to answer this question leaves me and others in this House to believe that something is being hidden. He is doing nothing at all to instil public confidence in the inquiry into the whole Somalia affair.

Will the minister restore the integrity required by the public by demanding that Anne-Marie Doyle be removed immediately?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I answered the question.

Defence Industry Conversion

[Yves Rocheleau, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Industry.

Between 1990 and 1994, Quebec lost 8,054 jobs in the defence industry, mainly in Montreal. These lost jobs account for more than half the jobs in the 40 largest military equipment companies and indicate the urgent need to set up a real conversion program. However, in the last budget, no money was allocated for this purpose.

Could the Minister of Industry explain why the government decided not to provide any money to set up a real conversion program for the defence industry, considering the promises the Liberal Party made in its red book?

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member may not have had the opportunity to consult with corporations and business associations in Quebec and throughout Canada.

Had he had the time to do so, he would have found out, as we did, that the corporations and all the business associations are against subsidies to the private sector. What they want from us is strategic information and help in finding foreign markets. This is what our government has been doing, not only through the measures contained in the budget, but also through Team Canada, which has been promoting sales overseas.

[Yves Rocheleau, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Mr. Speaker, does the minister recognize that by cutting the DIPP program by $41 million, money that could be used to set up a real conversion strategy, the Montreal area will continue to lose thousands of jobs and be penalized compared to its foreign competitors for whom such programs are in place?

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member is far more pessimistic than I am about the strength and capability in international markets of many of the firms in Montreal.

I happen to believe that companies have been traditionally strong in both the defence sector as well as in the dual use sector. For example, there is CAE Electronics which I visited on Friday. It entered into a new contract with the Canadian Space Agency. It is precedent setting and will be useful in helping that company

as well as the CSA provide training for use on the mobile satellite system. It goes on and on.

What companies in Canada want is advice, assistance, network connections and the support of their government in making the sales overseas that will make them successful internationally. That is what we understand, but clearly not what the Government of Quebec understands.

Immigration And Refugee Board

[Art Hanger, Reform, Calgary Northeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the President of the Treasury Board.

Last week renovations that will cost $500,000 started at the Immigration and Refugee Board's University Avenue office in Toronto. This remodelling, done at a time when 45,000 civil servants are to be let go, is causing outrage in the office itself. With the downsizing of the board, even more offices will be emptied. Nonetheless, expansion is proceeding.

Will the minister immediately call a halt to this incredible waste of taxpayers' dollars?

[David Dingwall, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services and Minister for the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency]

Mr. Speaker, I will have to take notice of the hon. member's question and get him an answer as soon as possible.

[Art Hanger, Reform, Calgary Northeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, my supplementary question is for the minister of immigration.

The minister knows about this mess but as usual he has tried to pass the buck to the chair of the IRB. I have received a petition signed by 300 civil servants, many of whom work in the Toronto IRB office, demanding a halt to these wasteful renovations.

Will the minister of immigration recommend that these renovations be halted now, or will he ignore these employees like he has ignored other critical employees in the past?

[Sergio Marchi, Liberal, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, it should be said that no minister ignores his or her employees. In fact it could be said that the harmony between the government and the civil service has never been higher in terms of the partnership that the government has with the public service.

Second, as the Minister of Public Works said, I too will take the question as notice because I am not aware of the specifics of which the member speaks.

Justice

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Justice.

Today is the anniversary of the very tragic death of Nicholas Battersby in a drive-by shooting. Since then other similar incidents have occurred in our communities across the land.

Will the minister inform the House of the steps the government has taken and is planning to take to make convicted young offenders more accountable for their acts?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, as the government announced almost a year ago, our approach to youth justice has two aspects: first, immediate statutory changes to the Young Offenders Act to strengthen it, and second, a longer term, critical reassessment of the youth justice system in general.

With respect to the first matter, last February 28 the House passed at third reading Bill C-37 which is now before the other place. It represents a toughening of the statute to deal with violence and a recognition that for non-violent crime, jail should be the last resort in favour of community based rehabilitative programming.

We have doubled the maximum sentence for first degree murder. We have provided for the presumptive transfer to adult court of 16 and 17-year-olds charged with crimes of serious violence.

In the second phase of the strategy, the parliamentary committee on justice and legal affairs will later this year commence a comprehensive review of the Young Offenders Act, travelling across Canada to listen to Canadians about other improvements that can be made to the statute.

Program For Older Worker Adjustment

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in Quebec, the fiscal arrangements provided for in the POWA agreement expire on March 31 of this year. The Quebec Minister of Employment, Louise Arel, has informed the Minister of Human Resources Development of her willingness to renew the current fiscal arrangements pending a review that would make the program more equitable for workers.

Can the Minister of Human Resources Development tell us what his intentions are regarding the renewal of the agreement with Quebec?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, we are presently reviewing the program, as the Quebec minister indicated a necessity to do.

We are endeavouring to set up a meeting. We look forward to being able to share our joint assessments of these programs at such a time as a meeting can be arranged.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, for more than a year now, the minister has been promising a review of POWA, which, I would remind members, excludes a considerable number of workers.

Will the minister make a commitment to take, this year, the corrective action that has been requested since 1992 by both the previous Liberal government of Quebec and its present government?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, it is important that we do a broader assessment of the circumstances affecting older workers throughout Canada.

We all recognize it is emerging as one of the more serious concerns we have as the labour market changes. A number of workers are being dislocated from their jobs. We have to find ways of helping them to re-enter the job market and to maintain some security for themselves and their families.

As the hon. member knows, we have a number of experiments going on across the country. There is the job corps in New Brunswick. Recently we initiated a wage subsidy program under the unemployment insurance program. That is beginning this spring. It is a very important way to help older workers re-enter the job market.

I want to be in a position to be able to share the results of these initiatives with my provincial counterparts at an early date. At that time we will certainly take on board representations made by the provinces concerning how we can help older workers in the country.

National Defence

[Jim Silye, Reform, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the defence minister's staff regularly failed to inform him of important facts until it was too late. The case of Anne-Marie Doyle is another example.

With his answers today regarding the public inquiry into the Somalia fiasco, is the minister confirming that Anne-Marie Doyle will remain as one of the three commissioners?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I made an announcement last week setting up the commission. The terms of reference are broad. The three commissioners were chosen for their impartiality, knowledge of government and knowledge of the public accountability process. If any one of those people do not measure up to any of those characteristics, that will be addressed.

[Jim Silye, Reform, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, here is a quotation from Anne-Marie Doyle: "It was no secret that Robert Fowler and I have been close colleagues and friends for 27 or 28 years".

It is no problem, except that it should disqualify her for the job. Will the minister do her a favour and not have a situation where a friend has to judge a friend?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I have answered this question four times in this question period. The hon. member will have to be satisfied with that answer.

The Economy

[Bill Blaikie, NDP, Winnipeg—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Finance. It has to do with the call that the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees has made with respect to the Tobin tax.

Given that the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees has called on governments of the world to introduce the Tobin tax in order to finance human rights work around the globe, I wonder whether the minister is now prepared to endorse this concept and say that at the G-7 meetings in Halifax the Canadian government will be putting forward a proposal in this regard.

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, the Tobin tax, as the hon. member knows, is quite an imaginative approach to both the financing of international obligations as well as the problems arising from speculation.

There are some problems with the Tobin tax, not the least of which is that unless it is applied on a worldwide basis it will not work. It would simply give rise to ways around it and other forms of financial instrumentation. For that reason the debate will continue.

[Bill Blaikie, NDP, Winnipeg—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Speaker, while the debate continues I wonder if the minister could tell us what the Canadian position is with respect to how the debate should proceed.

Will the Canadian government be looking for ways to do this that meet some of the concerns of the minister? Will the Canadian government, when it gets to Halifax, and in other international fora, be putting forward proposals for creating a financial world order in which the power of speculators to destabilize national and regional economies will be contained?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, the principal purpose of the Halifax summit, which is to take a look at possible or necessary reforms to international financial institutions, primarily the Bretton Woods institutions, is going to be first and foremost on the agenda. That will be a wide-ranging discussion and it would not be incumbent upon me to limit it here.

Trade

[Ray Speaker, Reform, Lethbridge]

Mr. Speaker, sugar beet producers are concerned that negotiations to open the U.S. border to Canadian sugar exports are being put on hold pending the Revenue Canada investigations into allegations of sugar dumping by the U.S. and Europe.

My question is for the Minister for International Trade. Can the minister assure the House that negotiations are still being pursued even during the Revenue Canada investigations?