House of Commons Hansard #180 of the 35th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was budget.
Pat O'Brien Liberal London—Middlesex, ON
Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of the Environment.
Next week the minister leads the Canadian delegation to the first conference of the parties on climate change in Berlin. Why is this conference so important that the minister is personally attending and what is the Canadian government's position on climate change?
Sheila Copps LiberalDeputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment
Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the question from a member of the standing committee on the environment.
The reason it is such a crucial issue is because if we fail as a globe to address this very critical problem, we will see a situation by the year 2050 where the island of Prince Edward Island will be completely under water, where the lower mainland of British Columbia will suffer massive flooding and where there will be severe fires on the prairies as a result of drought.
Ten years ago people laughed at scientists' claims for the codfish stocks and we know now the price we paid.
The EnvironmentOral Question Period
The Speaker
I am sure we agree that all questions from all hon. members deserve an answer and that the answers should be quite succinct and to the point. If the hon. Minister of the Environment has not finished, I give her the floor.
Sheila Copps Liberal Hamilton East, ON
Mr. Speaker, I do not want to belabour the point. I will only point out that the same naysayers that we are hearing now on the opposite side of the House were the same kinds of people who 10 years ago said we should do nothing about the cod stocks.
Global warming is a crucial world issue and we will address it with a global solution in Berlin.
Antoine Dubé Bloc Lévis, QC
Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Human Resources Development.
The assessment made of the federal government's Youth Strategy in Newfoundland and in New Brunswick is devastating for this program. Part III of the 1995-96 Estimates indicates that the evaluations did not reveal significant improvements in terms of job opportunities, compared to what could have been anticipated without the Youth Strategy program. The Canada-New Brunswick Youth Strategy also increased the participants' dependency on social assistance.
Will the minister recognize that his Youth Strategy is a big flop?
Lloyd Axworthy LiberalMinister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification
Mr. Speaker, one thing I would like to point out to the hon. member is that at this moment-give or take a few numbers-we have been able to work with the private sector to enrol over 10,000 young people in new internship programs in a wide variety of fields such as horticulture, electronics, car repair, logistics, software development.
We are giving our young people a chance to move from formal schooling into the workplace by giving them real, direct work experience training. That is the heart of our youth strategy. I think it is one of the most successful programs in the world.
Art Hanger Reform Calgary Northeast, AB
Mr. Speaker, last year only 27,000 immigrants came to Quebec, well short of the expected 40,000. Despite that incredible drop and despite taking a share of immigrants far lower than its share of the population, Quebec will still get $90 million for immigration or about three times as much per capita as Ontario.
Does the minister of immigration agree it is completely unfair for the federal government to give a province a share of immigrant funding that is vastly disproportionate to the number of immigrants actually accepted?
Sergio Marchi LiberalMinister of Citizenship and Immigration
Mr. Speaker, as we talked about for some two hours in the standing committee this morning, when we talk of settlement it is not only a question of looking at dollars and cents, particularly with respect to the province of Quebec which has nurtured an agreement over the course of 20 to 25 years where Quebec does settlement very well.
In other provinces, in talking to the Alberta minister responsible for immigration, it is not simply a case where everyone wants the same kind of agreement as Quebec or Ontario. There needs to be some flexibility under the guise of a federal immigration policy to allow enough regional and provincial nuances so they too can articulate the priorities.
It is in that spirit that we will fashion provincial-federal agreements that will work for the benefit of the country in all its regions.
Audrey McLaughlin NDP Yukon, YT
Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Human Resources Development.
Tomorrow funding will run out for many career counselling centres across the country that give career counselling to women, immigrants and others who need assistance to find work. At this point staff and clients are in limbo not knowing if these services will continue.
Earlier today the minister said he would like suggestions on helping to get people back to work. Many of these centres have success rates of up to 85 per cent.
Will he commit to continuing funding for these career counselling centres?
Lloyd Axworthy LiberalMinister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification
Mr. Speaker, I do not know the exact centres the hon. member refers to but as of yesterday I signed off on a number of the career outreach programs that will serve the clientele there.
Clearly as we are going through a transition year moving into the new human resource investment fund there will be adjustments along the way.
If the hon. member has specific centres in mind I would be glad to receive them and I can indicate to her which ones I have already approved.
Presence In The GalleryOral Question Period
The Speaker
I draw the attention of the House to the presence in the gallery of Mr. Colin Shepherd, member of Parliament in the British House of Commons and Chairman of the Executive Committee of the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association.
Michel Gauthier Bloc Roberval, QC
Mr. Speaker, I wonder if the Secretary of State for Parliamentary Affairs could tell us what is on the legislative agenda for the next few days.
Alfonso Gagliano LiberalSecretary of State (Parliamentary Affairs) and Deputy Leader of the Government in the House of Commons
Mr. Speaker, today, tomorrow, that is Friday, and Monday, the first item on the agenda is second reading of Bill C-76 to implement the budget, then, on Tuesday, we will have an opposition day for the Bloc Quebecois.
On Wednesday we will return to second reading of Bill C-68 respecting firearms. The back up legislation on all days will be Bill C-69, the redistribution bill, and Bill C-75, the farm bill. If not disposed of earlier we expect to deal with these items on Thursday.
There have been discussions among the parties and there has been an agreement that the House not sit on Friday next week.
Accordingly, I ask for unanimous consent for the following motion. I move:
That the House shall not sit on Friday, April 7, 1995 provided that, for the purpose of Standing Order 28, it shall be deemed to have sat on that day.
(Motion agreed to.)
The House resumed consideration of the motion that Bill C-76 an act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on February 27, 1995, be read the second time and referred to a committee; and of the amendment.
Budget Implementation Act, 1995Government Orders
The Acting Speaker (Mr. Kilger)
We will resume debate with the hon. member for Brome-Missisquoi, who has five minutes left. After that, there will be a five-minute question and comment period.
Denis Paradis Liberal Brome—Missisquoi, QC
Mr. Speaker, as I was saying earlier, the residents of Brome-Missisquoi will be glad to know that they can still depend on their hon. member and on the federal government for help if they want to start a small business.
The people in Brome-Missisquoi are known for their entrepreneurship and their capacity to develop new niches and to adapt quickly to new sets of rules on the world market.
I want to get back to spending. Expenditures at National Defence will also be drastically reduced. Business subsidies have been cut by 60 per cent. Because of the deficit and our current financial situation, we can no longer afford to maintain subsidies introduced ten years ago, which are now eroding our capacity to adapt, to diversify and to remain competitive.
We will also transfer certain programs to other levels of government and privatize some of our operations. For example, airports and marinas will be transferred to local authorities and CN will be privatized this year. Moreover, and this is very important, departments will have to prepare three-year business plans, which will be subject to parliamentary and public scrutiny.
The federal government is cleaning up its backyard, but other levels of government must do the same. The provinces will have to review their programs also.
Speaking of cleaning up, I urge the hon. member for Saint-Hyacinthe-Bagot to do some cleaning-up in his own mind. During his remarks this morning, I heard him criticize the way some Quebec members have voted. This is the budget of a responsible government that knows exactly where it is going. Does the Bloc know where it is going? They are preparing to hold a referendum so that they do not have to sit here anymore, but at the same time they are trying to ensure that Quebec will have 25 per cent of the seats in the House. This is hypocrisy. Do they want to stay or do they want to leave?
I believe in a flexible federalism, a federalism based on dialogue and consensus, not on hypocrisy. Members of the Bloc know full well that it takes a constitutional amendment to change the rules of the game between the various levels of government, but they are still trying not only to confuse people, but to provoke them. We had an opportunity to see, when the vote on the Bloc's motion was taken, the kind of contempt that members of the Bloc feel toward those who do not share their views. It bodes well for the referendum. The remarks made today by the member for Saint-Hyacinthe-Bagot show once again that, for the Bloc Quebecois and the Parti Quebecois, it is just «believe it or die».
The constitution of our country, Canada, guarantees a minimum of 75 seats for Quebec. I hope that Bloc members, after their defeat in the referendum, will have the decency to separate themselves from this House and go back to Quebec to work real hard at helping Quebec population grow. I might indicate to them that there are many ways to go about it, one of which is certainly not to maintain a political and economic climate contaminated by the Bloc, but rather to foster job creation in a strong economy. Then, Quebec will be strong in the true sense for Canada and within Canada, and we will no longer remember the hypocritical tactics devised by the Bloc members and their cousins in the PQ.
To get back to the budget, there is also the new Canadian social transfer. Globally, the major transfers, including equalization payments-which, for that matter, are not affected by this budget-will be 4.4 per cent lower than what they are now. At the same time, the other spending reductions the federal government is imposing on itself will reach 7.3 per cent, almost twice as much.
To summarize the budget, it proposes to reduce spending by $7 for every $1 increase in revenue. The in-depth reorganization of the machinery of government announced in the budget confirms the faith of the people of Brome-Missisquoi in a flexible federalism evolving in a secure environment for all the classes of citizens, young people, students, families and seniors, and also in a secure environment with regard to our political and trade relationships with all our neighbours, who are well aware of the rules of the game here in Canada.
Antoine Dubé Bloc Lévis, QC
Mr. Speaker, the new member for Brome-Missisquoi has adjusted quickly to the House of Commons. We can see this from the gratuitous insults he is flinging at the Bloc Quebecois. This member who, during the election campaign in Brome-Missisquoi, carefully avoided all the debates with his adversaries, is using some rather aggressive language for a new member, now that he is elected.
He prompts me to ask the following question when he says that the federal government has put its house in order in its budget and that the provincial governments should do the same. I would like to hear his comments on this matter. Of course we want to see the federal government put its house in order; that is what we have been asking it to do since we were elected.
I would like the hon. member to comment on the reduced transfer payments under the new Canada social transfer, with cuts of $2.5 billion next year and $4.5 billion every year thereafter. Does the member think that that it is a good way to reduce spending if, in the end, it costs the provinces more to maintain the services which their money was already used to provide?
I would say that yes, the federal government has been putting its house in order, but only by dumping problems in somebody else's backyard. Is this what it calls flexible federalism, the brand of federalism it prefers? I would like to hear the member's comments on this subject.
Denis Paradis Liberal Brome—Missisquoi, QC
Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for his question. First, I must say I have just been through an election campaign in Brome-Missisquoi where I met many citizens. The citizens of Brome-Missisquoi, as those of other regions in Quebec, have asked for a budget that would not increase personal income taxes and that would trim the fat.
This is exactly the kind of budget that minister Martin presented. When we speak about putting our financial house in order, and that is what trimming the fat is all about, I think that Mr. Martin's budget does just that. The other part of the member's question deals with the new Canadian social transfer program.
The minister announced that this new transfer program would be implemented only a year from now in order to give the provinces the opportunity to adapt to the new realities. This new Canadian social transfer program gives Quebec a global envelope where budgets for universities, health and social programs will be consolidated and the province will be free to manage them as it pleases. This is what we mean by new, progressive, flexible federalism.
As for the amounts mentioned by my colleague, I must say that the global cuts in federal programs account for a decrease of 7.3 per cent for all federal programs here in Ottawa.
But, for a year, the cuts in provincial programs will mean a reduction of 4.4 per cent only. The federal government is much more severe with its own programs than with the provinces and this is very important. It would be important also that Bloc members go back to their ridings and meet with their constituents. They would see that this is the type of federalism they want.
Paul Crête Bloc Kamouraska—Rivière-Du-Loup, QC
Mr. Speaker, the hon. member says that during a recent election campaign his constituents told him certain things. There must be farmers in Brome-Missisquoi and I would like to know whether they told him they would like to see a 30 per cent cut in the dairy credit.
This will drive up milk prices and penalize low-income families. Did anyone tell him that when he was seeking the votes of farmers in Brome-Missisquoi?
Denis Paradis Liberal Brome—Missisquoi, QC
Mr. Speaker, it is with pleasure that I reply to my colleague. During the election campaign, farming was, of course, one of the topics, particularly in a riding such as ours, which borders the United States. Given its location, the new GATT and NAFTA international trade rules are important at this time.
I am on the point of creating a sort of advisory committee with all the farmers in Brome-Missisquoi to look at how we can adapt as quickly as possible to the new international trade rules, including those of NAFTA. The State of Vermont is across the border from the riding of Brome-Missisquoi and I think that together with the farmers not just in my riding but throughout Quebec we will find ways of adapting to the rules of the new world economy.
Dianne Brushett Liberal Cumberland—Colchester, NS
Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure to rise in this House to address second reading of Bill C-76.
As I have stated previously, this budget may be viewed by future historians as a watershed budget. It is a very definite turning point in the history of this government, in the government of the day, when it had the courage to make the really tough decisions, to make the necessary cuts in spending in accordance with responsible financial management.
The budget redesigns the very role and the structure of government. It is a budget which achieves large savings to reach the deficit reduction targets set out in our red book plan. This budget is the cornerstone of the foundation of sustainable finances, sustainable social policy and sustainable economic policy for the future of Canadians. The budget is about nation building. It is about values and principles rooted in fairness among the regions, compassion, and above all, economic and financial leadership.
The future of the country is at stake with a debt of $550 billion and annual deficit budgets for more than a decade now. Because of this, a huge portion of government revenues are consumed by the cost of servicing this deficit and debt, money that could otherwise provide services and programs for Canadians or better still, reduce the amount of taxes we pay. The unexpected increase in these rates since last year's budget has put tremendous pressure on deficit targets. Meeting our targets is essential to strengthen confidence and bring interest rates down. This in
turn is essential for job growth and more job creation for Canadians.
Over $13 billion in savings will be realized through spending cuts and there will be no increase in personal income tax rates. Going beyond to 1997-98, our reforms will deliver a further $13 billion in savings for a three year total of $29 billion. This is the largest set of actions in any budget since the war years in the 1940s.
We are also taking firm steps to increase tax fairness and close loopholes. The budget delivers almost $7 in spending cuts for every dollar of new tax revenue. That is very significant, a 7:1 ratio of spending cuts to taxes.
The government accepted the challenge not only with this budget, but with several budgets to come, to work toward a balanced budget. This is not politically expedient, but it is the right thing to do.
The measures taken in the budget will ensure that Canadians can face the economic challenge of international competition and that we will be able to do so with growth and confidence. This budget is about restoring confidence in government and confidence in Canadians.
Measures which were taken last year in the first budget of this government showed positive results in our economy. Economic growth is at 4.5 per cent which is the strongest of the G-7 nations. 1994 was the most impressive year ever in Canadian exports. We showed a massive trade surplus with the United States and inflation was at its lowest in three decades. There were improved business profits and some 433,000 more full time jobs.
A snapshot of our growth is found in Statistics Canada's report on railway car loadings. It showed that in a seven day period ending February 21, 1995, just a few weeks ago, the number of railway cars loaded in Canada increased 3.7 per cent from the same period a year earlier. Revenue freight loaded increased 6.9 per cent to 4.6 million tonnes. Piggyback traffic tonnage which is included in total carload traffic increased 9.5 per cent during the same period. Tonnage of revenue freight loaded as of February 21, 1995 increased 19.8 per cent from the previous year.
That is growth. Growth in freight means growth in GDP where it should be and not growth in government.
Cuts in government spending mean pain. The budget is about pain. However, the pain was spread fairly to all regions. In the west, grain transportation subsidies were eliminated, while in the east the Atlantic region freight assistance program was abolished. However, both the west and the east, including Quebec, will receive transitional funding helping to alleviate shipper hardship and upgrade transportation infrastructure.
The bill also proposes the elimination of the Atlantic freight subsidies under the Atlantic Region Freight Assistance Act and the Maritime Freight Rates Act. This measure will take effect in December of this year. It will save nearly $100 million.
The MFRA and the later ARFAA subsidies derive from recommendations of the 1927 report of the royal commission on maritime claims, the Duncan commission. The report noted that the BNA Act had guaranteed construction of the Intercolonial Railway, an obligation long met at the time the Duncan commission was appointed. The commission concluded however that there was a particular intention behind the enactment of this guarantee and on its interpretation of this intention recommended a reduction in freight rates.
Therefore, we had the Atlantic freight subsidies program. However, it has proven inefficient in reducing shipper costs. Moreover, it has encouraged companies to structure their investments and organizations to meet regulatory criteria rather than for sound business reasons. The subsidies are of marginal and declining importance to regional economic activity, since transportation services in the region are now more competitive than they once were.
To help ensure that elimination of the subsidy contributes to a better transportation system, the budget announced a five year $326 million transportation adjustment program. Provinces will be able to target assistance under the program to meet local shippers' needs and upgrade infrastructure. Among other things, this should help to modernize the highway system in Atlantic Canada and eastern Quebec.
The people of Nova Scotia know that the backbone of the economy is small business and that Atlantic Canada ended 1994 with the highest rate of growth per capita. Our region grew by 2.7 per cent. This was followed by the prairie region.
One of the most important elements of the bill is the reformation of transfers to the provinces. This represents new federalism. The federal government wants to create a transfer system that functions better and is more fiscally sustainable.
The centrepiece of this reform is the replacement beginning in 1996-97 of established programs financing for health and post-secondary education and the Canada assistance plan with a single consolidated block transfer, the Canada health and social transfer.
The Canada health and social transfer represents a new approach to federal-provincial relations. This new approach is marked by greater flexibility for provincial governments and more sustainable financing arrangements. It continues the evolution toward more mature fiscal responsibility.
The Liberal government approach to provincial transfers passes three important tests. First, the federal government has hit itself harder through cuts. Second, we have given the provinces ample time, that is, one year notice of our intentions.
Third, the reduction in transfer payments is equitable. This is where the fairness comes in again.
Under the previous government the 1980s were a time of greed, a time of surplus and a time of waste. The 1990s under the present government are a time of basic need, not greed, a time of high efficiency and productivity, and a time of sustainability, not waste. It is a time to sustain our finances as well as our environment, our resources and as we all know, our fish stocks.
We made a commitment to the men and women of Canada to reduce the deficit while restructuring social policy. We take that commitment very seriously.
The budget of February 1995 is more than a bunch of numbers. It is one part of a very large social plan, an economic plan, as well as a financial plan. It maps out a very prudent and courageous incredible path, not only for our generation but more important, for the next generation of young Canadians to come. I urge all hon. members to support this bill.
Antoine Dubé Bloc Lévis, QC
Mr. Speaker, the member for Cumberland-Colchester spoke about the changes to freight subsidies in eastern Canada. The way she presented it, in a very positive manner, is of course self-interested. However, I must say that this measure changes the whole picture.
Last week, there was a debate on railways. Now, they want to change the shipping assistance program and focus more on road transportation of goods. We must realize that in the past, many businesses had their goods shipped by rail. What did this mean? It meant that they avoided making abusive use of road transportation which, we know, is bad for roads at certain times.
It is all very well to talk about a form of flexible federalism because money is transferred to the provinces so that they can carry out public infrastructure projects. However after a few years, when the roads are a mess, everyone knows that it will be up to the provinces to repair and maintain them with their own funds. I would like to hear her comments on this. She can contradict me if she can. I believe that it is a short sighted view. It harms rail transportation which was appreciated by many.
The need to build a railway was even the pretext used to create the Canadian confederation and what do we have? All of a sudden, in order to control its expenditures, the federal government transfers an equivalent amount on the short term from the railways to road transportation or to businesses. I would like to hear what the member has to say about this transfer and about offloading such expenditures onto the provinces.
Dianne Brushett Liberal Cumberland—Colchester, NS
Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for Lévis for his comments. We have enjoyed a valuable asset in the rail system in building this country.
Many times I have gone through the province of Quebec, growing up in New Brunswick and living in Nova Scotia. It is part of our whole eastern heritage, part of our whole country.
These assistance programs are antiquated. They have come through the British North America Act in 1920, 1930, 1940. I say again that they are antiquated. It is important that we update and modernize. Our manufacturers, our grain growers, our furnace makers in Nova Scotia, our farmers, wherever they are, in Quebec or Nova Scotia have the same needs: to move products to the marketplace.
I cited some statistics taken by StatsCanada four weeks ago. Trains have increased some 19 per cent in freight in this country. If time permitted, I could address the question of railways, how a line in Nova Scotia from Sydney to Truro, my hometown was sold. It has become privatized. It was losing a million dollars a year and now it is making several million dollars a year. The amount of freight moving through those lines has increased. This is happening with short lines across the country. They are becoming profitable.
By taking the subsidies away we are allowing our manufacturers and farmers to have more flexibility. We are allowing them to be more efficient in the 21st century, to modernize and to look at creativity under a world trade organization as well. The transitional funding allows us to get to that point and to upgrade the highways.
The hon. member for Lévis knows as well as I from Cumberland-Colchester that the highways between Quebec and Nova Scotia certainly need upgrading so that we can share in trade wealth a lot better between each other.
Pauline Picard Bloc Drummond, QC
Mr. Speaker, I thank you for allowing me to speak in this House on Bill C-76, an act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on February 27, 1995.
In its budget, the government announced a series of measures that jeopardize our social programs. Bill C-76 confirms what we feared most and shows the extent of the damage done to Quebec and to the provinces by the federal budget. Cuts in transfers to provinces amount to $7 billion. That is $7 billion of the federal deficit reduction taken off the back of provinces. These new cuts in transfers to provinces come on top of all the unilateral cuts made in the few last years that were so stridently criticized by
the government members who were then sitting in the official opposition.
We must recall that, between 1977 and 1994, the federal government's share of social program financing, that is for health, education and welfare, dropped from 47.6 per cent to 37.8 per cent. Bill C-76 is the confirmation of a sharp drop in federal funds, which is supposed to reach 28.5 per cent within two years, by 1997-98.
After so many years of offloading its responsibilities onto the provinces, the federal government still does not understand that reducing transfers does not solve in any way the fiscal problem that all Canadian governments experience. By imposing dual jurisdictions in fields that are not federal according to the Constitution, the federal government is preventing any real solution to the crisis in Canada's public finances, whether at the federal or the provincial level. In the end, the real losers are the taxpayers we are here to represent.
I said earlier that this budget would be the end of our social programs as we know them. We all know that Quebec and the provinces are facing a breathtaking rise in medicare costs. This raise is mainly due to factors such as an aging population, new and more expensive medical technologies and significant cost increases in pharmaceutical products.
In the last budget, as was the case in previous budgets which froze transfer payments, the government announced substantial cuts in transfers to Quebec and to the other provinces for health care. It does not matter that, under Bill C-76, transfers for this program will be lumped in with other program funding in one transfer, the Canada social transfer. The result will be the same. Less money will be available for health care, and in this way, the government has chipped away at one of the foundations of our health care system.
The Minister of Finance should be honest and open with Quebecers and Canadians. He should admit to them that such cuts in transfer payments will put an end to the health care system as we know it, because that is what is at stake here.
The claim that all of these cuts will have no impact on the health of Quebecers and of Canadians and on the health care system itself is false. I cite as proof the recent statements made by the Prime Minister, when he quietly and furtively introduced the new concept of guaranteed fundamental or basic health care services for Canadians. By even talking about minimum standards, which have not been specified or determined, as being essential, the Prime Minister only draws more attention to a cross-Canada phenomenon: a two-tiered and two-speed health care system.
The two-tiered health care system is gathering steam from the well established tendency in the system which, unless there is a spectacular about-face, will become the norm. On the one hand, a normal or basic service will be covered by health insurance and, on the other, a fully loaded, specialized service will also be available for those who can afford to pay the user fees, to buy private insurance or to finance their health care in another way.
As for the two-speed health care system, it is well entrenched throughout Canada: slow public services for those who cannot afford to pay and fast private services for those who cannot afford to wait but can afford to pay.
No one in this House can deny that our health care system as we knew it has undergone radical changes across Canada. The two-level and two-speed system is no longer a doom-and-gloom scenario but a reality.
In his budget speech, the Minister of Finance solemnly declared, and I quote: "The conditions of the Canada Health Act will be maintained. For this government, those are fundamental".
Bill C-76 reimposes these national standards while, at the same time, cutting the financial resources needed to maintain them. It is pitiful double talk: although we want a Cadillac, we will only make payments for a bicycle.
They are saying that the provinces should find ways to make up the difference and trying to pass this off as an example of flexible federalism. How can the Minister of Finance still think and maintain that Quebec and the provinces will manage to provide the same health services to the population? How can Quebec and the provinces manage to maintain all five conditions of the Canada Health Act imposed by Ottawa, when the Minister of Finance is offloading onto them a deficit in the billions of dollars through cuts in social programs?
The Minister of Finance should have shown some courage and should have been straight with his fellow citizens by telling them: "Unfortunately, because of our past mistakes, in particular at the time of the Chrétien and Lalonde budgets, we can no longer afford to maintain our health care system as we know it today". The Minister of Finance is dodging his responsibilities instead of facing up to them. This government is dodging its responsibilities by transferring its deficit to Quebec and the provinces. This government is misleading the people by hiding the fact that the health care programs are about to sink as a result of the budget.
Bill C-76 takes out two heavy mortgages on the Canadian health care system. On the sole basis of the obscene interest rates resulting from the federal government's inability to bring under control the public finance crisis it has created, the health of our patient, the taxpayer, is not about to get better.
The Martin budget and Bill C-76 implementing it take out a first mortgage on the general state of health of our fellow citizens. All studies conducted here and elsewhere clearly show the cause-and-effect relationship between poverty and the state of health of the population. By making cuts to social housing and unemployment insurance, attacking the unemployed rather than unemployment itself and reducing transfers to the Canada Assistance Plan, the government is launching a full-scale attack against the most disadvantaged in our society. For the
second year in a row, the unemployed and the working poor will be the budget cuts' main victims, while large corporations and financial institutions will be spared for all practical purposes.
The Minister of Finance announces further cuts to the Unemployment Insurance Program but only a temporary tax on the capital of large banking institutions. The minister will beg for a mere $100 million from banking institutions, when the Royal Bank alone made over $1.2 billion in profits last year.
In addition, this government turned a deaf ear to requests from all sides, from the Bloc and the Conseil du patronat alike, to eliminate all business subsidies. Instead, the Minister of Finance chose to make cuts of more than $300 million in social housing rather than going for the remaining $1.5 billion in business subsidies. That is the federal approach.
Large corporations and banks can sleep in peace. The Minister of Finance clearly indicated in his budget that, once again, the unemployed and the disadvantaged will bear the brunt of the financial problems of this inefficient federal system, while at the same time ensuring that wealthy Canadians may continue, until the end of the century, to benefit from the advantages that flow from the establishment of family trusts.
So, this is one way Bill C-76 attacks the health of Canadians. In time, sparing the rich by squeezing more and more money out of the disadvantaged, the government is, in fact, taxing the health of the latter.
In this land of renewed and flexible federalism, the idea is to be rich and healthy not poor and in ill health. The second attack of Bill C-76 on the health area is a direct attack on the provinces' capacity to meet national standards in health care at a time when the federal government is substantially reducing its transfer payments. There is a certain irony in this way of proceeding. The federal government is cutting its transfer payments to Quebec by 27 per cent while at the same time developing national standards like those arising from the Canada Health Act and imposing them upon Quebec.
Quebec is expected to absorb a large portion of Canada's deficit, while the federal government continues to interfere in Quebec's jurisdiction. Quebecers will continue to pay for the duplication imposed by the federal system. There will still be two health departments, two human resources departments, two environment departments, and so on.
As for the health sector, if the federal government can no longer afford to meddle in this field of provincial jurisdiction, it should get out completely and leave it to the provinces, with the appropriate means of financing. This way, the federal government would at least save all the administrative costs related to its programs, which duplicate those of the provinces. One example is the pre-natal program established last year by the health minister, which is identical to the Quebec OLO program. Both the federal government and the provinces would gain and, in the end, the public would get more for the same money.
In Quebec, as in the rest of the country, people now realize that they can no longer get deeper into debt if they do not have the means to pay. Canadians and Quebecers balance their budget by reducing waste and frivolous spending. In every household, people consult each other to avoid buying the same item twice. By taking on two major financial commitments in the health sector, the federal government clearly shows that it still does not realize the seriousness of its financial situation. The only appropriate remedy would be to stop spending, in fields which do not fall under its jurisdiction, just for the sake of satisfying its compulsive need to centralize.
Canadian finances suffer from an acute case of federalism. In order to centralize everything, federal initiatives duplicate and overlap with provincial ones, regardless of the costs, or net results in terms of services to taxpayers. I draw the attention of this House to the eloquent silence of the health minister regarding the negative but foreseeable effects which this bill will have on health care services in Quebec and in Canada. If the minister is at all receptive to what goes on in her department, she must be aware of the serious impact of this bill on our health system.
She must see the flaws of a system which is obviously and quickly leading us to a two-level program. Since the hon. member assumed her functions as Minister of Health, she keeps on repeating that Canada's system is the best in the world and that she cares so much about Canadians' health that she will never sacrifice the five major principles underlying the Canada Health Act.
But the facts do not bear this out. If the minister will not sacrifice, as she claims, these major principles, her colleague, the Minister of Finance, has no scruples about doing it, although not directly, since that would require a good dose of straightforwardness, but indirectly. Principles or not, the Minister of Finance slashes the established programs financing, thus making deep cuts into the health care system.
The minister may claim over and over her attachment to the principles underlying the legislation, but what happens if the necessary financial support is not provided? The principles gradually but surely fall into oblivion. Those are the facts of the matter, and they are becoming more and more obvious to Quebecers. Canadians all over the country would not rush to private clinics the way they are doing if the attachment of the health minister to the principles of the Canada Health Act was
shared by all, and particularly the Minister of Finance, who is showing just the opposite with Bill C-76.
I realize that the Minister of Health cherishes the principles which, at the time, were instrumental in establishing what she invariably refers to as the best health care system in the world. However, I do not think that, cherished though they may be, these principles had any impact on the government's budgetary decisions. It is clear that the minister failed miserably in her attempt to obtain the appropriate financing for our health care system.
Perhaps I may recall for the benefit of hon. members what the Minister of Health had to say about the impact of the cuts and freezes imposed at the time by the Conservative government on transfers to the provinces for health care programs.
The minister said in 1992, and I quote: "Cutting back on the transfers in these areas has not contributed to better management of our health care system". She went on to say: "We have literally forced our deficit on to the provinces and said to the provinces they have a choice: they can either increase their taxes or cut back on their services. What we have seen in many instances is a mix of the two".
Then, still in the same speech, the minister indicated the following: "Cutting back on the transfers in these areas has not contributed to better management of our health care system. They have only contributed to the cutbacks and to the fear that we feel now across the nation as the middle income group, which is the largest group of Canadians, are frightened and afraid of what is going to happen to them in the future. Will there be a health care system for them, will they be able to get the drugs that they need at the prices they can afford to pay when they need them, when they get to be a certain age? There is this feeling that perhaps the federal government is letting go of its responsibilities in this matter".
So what does the Minister of Health have to say now about her government's responsibility for health care, when the bill before the House today offloads $7 billion of the deficit to the provinces by cutting transfer payments? Since she probably knows better than anyone else the serious consequences of these cutbacks, what did she do and what is she doing now to defend her position before the Minister of Finance?
In fact, the Minister of Health has abdicated her responsibilities. When the last budget was brought down, she formally announced there would be a national forum on health, as promised in the red book, to be chaired by none other than the Prime Minister. We were told the health care system would be spared until the conclusions of the vast public forum were known.
While the Minister of Health was unable to hold her forum, which was going to provide all the answers, her colleague, the Minister of Finance, wasted no time and spared no expense on a course of action. The national forum, the discussions and the reforms were all to be scuttled; blind, uniform and unilateral cuts were the answer.
The Minister of Health who must see the same two-tiered two- speed system we see everywhere in Canada, should have the courage to rise in this House and denounce the unilateral decisions of her colleague, the Minister of Finance.
Bill C-76 proves to us that the Minister of Finance is not getting caught up in his colleagues' proposed reforms. In the case of the Axworthy reforms, he did not wait for either the report or the recommendations. The agenda for reform was so vague, there was no time to wait. This was the case also for the national forum on health. At the rate things are going, with the health department dragging its feet and finance charging away at a gallop, there will probably be no more money for transfers by the time the Minister of Finance gets a whiff of a recommendation from the national forum on health.
In the final analysis, this bill is the antithesis of flexible federalism. Nothing in it, in the facts or in the measures announced alters the status quo in the slightest. On the contrary, it confirms the governments imperialist propensity to conduct its business with the provinces by presenting them with a fait accompli. It is true to its vision of ever more centralized federalism.
Mr. Speaker, I conclude on this point. The bill conceals serious consequences for the future. It continues to widen the gap between the rich and the poor in our society and condemns many aspects of our social programs to certain death. The people of Canada have to know these things. More specifically, the people of Quebec have to know them before they make a final decision on the federal system, which is clearly not managing to solve its problems and is even less successful at changing to meet the expectations of Quebecers.