Debates of April 27th, 1995

Peacekeeping Act

[Maud Debien, Bloc, Laval East, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to speak to Bill C-295. This bill provides for the control of

Canadian peacekeeping activities by Parliament and amends the National Defence Act in consequence thereof.

Bill C-295 has three main objectives: first, to enhance parliamentary control over the involvement of Canadian forces in international peacekeeping missions; second, to limit it to a neutral or non-combatant role; third, to control the placing of Canadian forces under UN or other non-Canadian command.

I would like to stress at the outset that the members of the official opposition are glad to have the opportunity to discuss such changes to the way the Canadian forces participate in peacekeeping missions. And we would like to thank the hon. member for Fraser Valley East for giving us the opportunity to express our opinion on these matters.

Much of the content of Bill C-295 is in step with the concerns already expressed by the Bloc Quebecois, as much in the debates in this House as in the dissenting report we submitted regarding the Canadian foreign policy review.

I would briefly like to reiterate the Bloc Quebecois' position on the issue being discussed today. Firstly, I would like to stress that the official opposition believes that one of the most important roles of the Canadian forces on the international scene is to support peacekeeping operations and to take an active role in them. This is one of Canada's crowning achievements which has helped earn us our reputation.

Nevertheless, we believe that, in the future, Canada should select more carefully the operations in which it will participate. Recent peacekeeping missions have, as you recall, had their difficulties, of which Canada should take note. Examples are the missions to Rwanda and the former Yugoslavia, or even the situation in Haiti, which reminded us of the need to ensure that our operations serve to further legitimate democratic causes and are meticulously planned.

The conflicts I just cited as examples clearly show how important it is to define, under the auspices of the United Nations, specific objectives and mandates for each mission beforehand. The Bloc Quebecois also recognizes that we need to give the Canadian forces special status, in order to maintain the credibility of our operations.

At the same time, Canada should review its current military alliances and adapt them to strategic missions in accordance with the needs of the United Nations. This approach would inject new life into these organizations and would make them more effective in protecting safety and in resolving conflicts. It would also make it possible for Canada to meet its public security objectives, which are crucial to its own domestic security.

Furthermore the official opposition feels that Canada should encourage the creation of a permanent contingent that would be at the disposal of the UN to carry out its peacekeeping missions abroad. The number of personnel assigned by Canada to these peacekeeping missions should be limited. Unfortunately, Bill C-295 is silent on this point.

Finally, as we have said many times before, for instance in our dissenting opinion, we believe that Canada should put its decisions to participate in peacekeeping missions to a vote in the House of Commons, and do so as soon as possible, if there is enough time. We are of course delighted to see some of our suggestions reflected in the bill before the House today. However, some sections raise a number of problems, and we would like to suggest some improvements.

For instance, in clause 4 of Bill C-295, there seems to be no provision for the eventuality that Canadian forces might be asked to take part in peacekeeping operations at a time when parliamentarians are not sitting in this House. On the other hand, with respect to the order that would place the officer in command of the Canadian forces under the command of the United Nations or an international organization represented by an officer of another state, in subclause 6(3), the bill provides that the order would be laid before the House of Commons on any of the first three days on which the House sits following the day the order is made. Perhaps the same provisions could be included in clause 4?

Furthermore, clause 4 makes no provision for renewing the mandate given to Canadian forces. Perhaps it would be advisable to add a provision to that effect. Still in clause 4, and more specifically in subparagraph 4(1)(v), the Minister of Defence is asked to specify a maximum planned expenditure for the mission.

We realize such provisions are necessary. Canada's financial situation demands that we act responsibly. However, instead of immediately patriating military personnel once the expenditure limit previously approved by the House has been exceeded, this clause should provide for increasing, always by a resolution of the House of Commons, the resources allocated for an operation in exceptional cases, such as emergency humanitarian aid.

We also have some questions about the scope of subclause 5(3). This subclause mentions three circumstances in which Canadian forces would be allowed to use deadly force. We must ensure that Canadian military personnel take part in peacekeeping rather than peacemaking missions. Would it not be more prudent to make the rules specifying the circumstances in which force may be used subject to criteria set by the UN? Otherwise, we might have a situation where the participation of Canadian military personnel in peacekeeping missions would be subject to criteria that are different from those for other national contin-

gents. These questions show how important it is to specify the scope of subclause 5(3).

As for clause 6, I have two comments. First, in clause 6(3), we want all references to the other place deleted. As you know, the Bloc Quebecois considers it a waste of public funds to maintain the other house, which should be abolished as quickly as possible.

As our final amendment, to clause 6(4), we believe that the renewal should be submitted to the House of Commons and not to the Governor in Council. This amendment is in keeping with the spirit of the bill, which attempts to involve Parliamentarians more in decisions pertaining to peacekeeping activities.

In closing, I would once again like to thank my colleague for Fraser Valley East for allowing us to debate this important question. I assure him that the Bloc Quebecois supports the principles underlying Bill C-295. For this reason, we support the bill in second reading.

We would like the questions raised by the opposition to be given serious consideration so improvements may be made to the bill before its passage at third reading.

[Carolyn Parrish, Liberal, Mississauga West, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to have the opportunity to participate in the debate on Bill C-295, an act to provide for the control of Canadian peacekeeping activities by Parliament and to amend the National Defence Act in consequence thereof.

I will take a few minutes this afternoon to talk about the context of the bill, namely the nature of Canada's current involvement in peacekeeping activities and the way in which we currently manage our participation in the operations. I should also like to look at a number of specific details in the bill and explain why I cannot support the changes the bill proposes.

Since World War II successive Canadian governments have argued that a safer, more secure international environment is key to Canada's own security and prosperity. As a responsible international participant and as a major trading nation, Canada is concerned with the dangers of a spillover of a localized strife and the threat it poses to the larger international community. At the same Canadians desire a reduction or end to the widespread human suffering in situations where there are strong indications that outside assistance can make a difference.

To this end Canada has worked with other countries to create a stable international environment. One of the instruments we have used in this effort has been peacekeeping, a technique of multilateral conflict management and resolution that has proven exceedingly useful over the years, and at which Canada has excelled.

Canada's contribution to peacekeeping is rooted in the belief that a stable international order sustained by substantial multinational consensus is the best foundation for Canada's long term peace and security. Hence, we willingly make available well trained and suitably equipped military personnel for peacekeeping and related operations.

However, our commitment to peacekeeping cannot be taken for granted. Canada carefully examines all requests for peacekeeping assistance and turns down those it regards as inappropriate. Our record of support is unparalleled, but that does mean our decision to take part in such missions is automatic. Canada has declined opportunities to participate in the third UN Angola verification mission, the UN Aouzou Strip observer group and the UN observer missions in Georgia and in Liberia. In recent years Canada has also significantly reduced or withdrawn contingents from Cyprus, Western Sahara, Somalia and El Salvador.

Traditionally the international community has turned to Canada for peacekeeping resources, not only because our foreign policy has been inclined to support involvement but also because our armed forces are flexible, multipurpose and combat capable. Our personnel are well trained, suitably equipped and have a very impressive track record. The world has come to depend on Canada for peacekeeping.

Canadian participation must always be placed in a larger international context. Our decision to join in a mission is a unilateral one and any changes to the way we operate would also be unilateral. However, the actual mission is always multilateral and complex. With many partners affecting our understanding we become team players when we join. This is an important consideration because UN Security Council resolutions are not always absolutely precise in specifying all the aims, duties or roles of a mission. Decisions evolve as circumstances change.

I should like to turn now to a discussion of some specific provisions of Bill C-295 which in my mind are not workable.

Clause 8 of Bill C-295 requires that once the aims of a particular mission have been achieved the Canadian contribution is to be terminated. The bill is not clear as to how the UN objectives or those expressed in the resolution might be reconciled. Yet the withdrawal of a Canadian contingent based upon an arbitrary expiry date would have two undesirable effects. First, the entire Canadian contribution might prove pointless if withdrawn too early. The second and more serious impact is that withdrawal could be counterproductive to the mission as a whole and thereby in itself threaten peace and security.

I also question those provisions of the bill related to active service. This bill would deem members of the Canadian forces assigned to peacekeeping missions to be on active service for all purposes. The bill proposes that the National Defence Act be amended so that an officer or non-commissioned member assigned to a mission that is subject to the proposed peacekeeping act shall be deemed to be on active service for all purposes.

Quite simply, this proposal is unnecessary. Pursuant to an order in council dated April 6, 1989, all regular force members anywhere in or beyond Canada and all reserve force members beyond Canada are currently on active service. Moreover, all members of the regular force have in fact been on active service continually since 1950.

There is therefore no legal requirement for individual orders in council placing members on active service as a consequence of a particular peacekeeping operation. These orders in council are simply a parliamentary convention. But convention though they may be, the practice certainly reflects the government's desire to consult more frequently with Parliament concerning the general thrust of Canada's peacekeeping policy and practice.

As members well know, there have been two substantial debates on international peacekeeping commitments since this government came into power, the first on September 21, 1994 and the second just recently on March 29.

Bill C-295 does not adequately address the scope of UN peacekeeping operations or chapter 7 action taken by the UN Security Council. This is the third element of the bill with which I have serious concerns.

The definitions and structure imposed by the bill do not accord with international treaties and the UN charter obligations. In trying to encompass the broad range of operations that may be authorized or directed by a UN Security Council resolution, the definition of a peacekeeping service in clause 2 of the bill is very imprecise.

The Secretary General of the United Nations, Dr. Boutros Boutros-Ghali, in his June 1992 report to the Security Council defined four terms: preventive diplomacy, peacemaking, peacekeeping, and peacebuilding, all of which contribute to the maintenance of international peace and security. Each of these UN concepts can, and most often do, entail the use of military force. However, civilian personnel such as elections officials and civilian police are also becoming common in UN peacekeeping operations. The problem with Bill C-295 is that it does not provide a clear delineation of which operations are covered, nor does it offer any specific rationale for applying such regulations only to Canadian forces.

I would also like to question the section dealing with the rules of engagement. Bill C-295 creates overly simplistic legal obligations for rules of engagement and the use of force. Rules of engagement are always issued to armed Canadian forces personnel participating in international operations. They often operate under UN rules of engagement, although these are always drafted in conjunction with the Canadian forces staff at National Defence Headquarters as well as the Canadian contingent commander.

In this way, UN rules of engagement reflect a distinctly Canadian approach in structure, terminology, and interpretation of the mandate within which the rules operate. Occasionally, when the UN is slow to produce an acceptable set of rules of engagement, Canadian forces will operate under Canadian rules while permitting the UN to maintain overall control of an international operation.

Clause 5(3) of the bill restricts the use of force to self-defence. However, this restriction cannot, unless specifically authorized by a UN Security Council resolution, extend to the protection of civilians, even if they are subject to the actual or immediate threat of deadly force or if they are threatened with a serious abuse of human rights. All rules of engagement must be carefully analysed, taking into account the specifics of the mandate. That mandate could require troop-contributing states to use force for reasons other than those specified in the bill.

The issue of neutrality in Bill C-259 is also insupportable. The blanket requirement in subclause 5(1) that Canadian forces be neutral and not engage in combat is itself contradicted later in paragraphs 5(3)(a), (b), and (c) of the bill. The authorization this later subclause gives would violate the neutrality provisions because force could be used to protect one civilian group against the actions of another. There may be cases in which combat is the only means of restoring peace. Once again, this bill, if implemented, would restrict the flexibility of our Canadian forces in what are often very fluid and unpredictable circumstances.

In conclusion, I think that the same argument could be applied to the bill as a whole. The provisions of Bill C-259 foreclose options and restrict the flexibility of the Government of Canada to direct and manage the peacekeeping operations it undertakes.

I urge all members of the House to give careful consideration to how this bill would affect the ability of our Canadian forces to perform the tasks they have been assigned. This bill, however well meaning in its intent, would, in my view, have a detrimental effect on Canada's ability to undertake peace operations.

Out of respect for the admirable work that our Canadian forces are doing on a day to day basis and with their interests in mind, I cannot support this bill.

[Jim Hart, Reform, Okanagan—Similkameen—Merritt, BC]

Mr. Speaker, it gives me great pleasure to stand in the House today and support Bill C-295, put forward by my colleague for Fraser Valley East.

The part of this bill I would like to address is clause 4, dealing with the authority of the House of Commons. As everyone in this House knows, much to the distress of the Liberal government, the Reform Party strongly endorses the notion that the House must be accountable to Canadians, and not just financially accountable. Everything we do in the House must reflect the desires and expectations of the people. Only under the most extreme circumstances should Parliament act without consulting the people who elected us. This is especially true when Canadian lives are at stake.

Last year I had the privilege of being a member of the special joint committee reviewing Canada's defence policy. During this year of intense research and consultation with Canadians, we made a number of recommendations in our report, entitled "Security in a Changing World". This is one of the recommendations, and I quote:

Defence policy cannot be made in private and results simply announced. Canadians will not accept that, nor should they. Nor should the government commit our forces to service abroad without a full parliamentary debate and accounting for that decision. It is our expectation that, except in extraordinary circumstances, such a debate would always take place prior to any such deployment.

This recommendation was endorsed by all members of the committee, including those sitting opposite today. Though there have been eleventh hour debates on peacekeeping in the former Yugoslavia and the government's white paper on national defence did recognize many of the special joint committee's recommendations, this specific recommendation was overlooked by the minister and the government.

Currently, cabinet has the full authority to designate soldiers to be on active service for war or for peacekeeping activities. If Parliament is not sitting, section 32 of the National Defence Act requires that the House reconvene 10 days after placing soldiers on active service. Strangely, the government is not required to hold a debate on this. The notion of accountability is conspicuously absent. Canadians have no say in committing our troops to life threatening circumstances.

Clause 4 of Bill C-295 provides a method for full parliamentary review in the spirit of the special joint committee report and holds the government accountable for all peacekeeping commitments. Clause 4 states: "No Canadian forces shall serve or be committed to service in peacekeeping service or continue in such service beyond the time or expenditure limit previously approved by the House of Commons, pursuant to this section, unless the Minister of National Defence has moved in the House of Commons a resolution" outlining five criteria that must be debated and passed.

This opportunity for debate is essential. Since the end of the cold war the government has designated more troops to active service than any time since the Korean war. While we are very proud of our international recognition as peacekeepers and in some cases peacemakers to the world, the missions we have engaged in are becoming increasingly dangerous and uncertain in purpose. Canadians should be proud of our peacekeepers, because our troops are indeed the best in the world.

The first criterion in the resolution authorizes the specific mission for peacekeeping service. This is extremely important. The House of Commons must be told exactly what the specific mission is.

When I talk to my constituents about defence issues many ask me what our specific mission is in hot spots such as the former Yugoslavia. They also ask why we are still there when the troops are fired on and held hostage by the combatants. They seem to realize there is no will for peace in that troubled nation and wonder exactly what we are doing to resolve the conflict.

This brings me to my second criterion. Bill C-295 would ensure the resolution specifies the objectives, duties and role of the mission. This is important in the new peacekeeping roles we find ourselves in.

In the former Yugoslavia it is often unclear what objectives we are striving for. The classic peacekeeping role of keeping two warring factions apart from each other while they negotiate a final peace or maintaining a ceasefire to which all parties agree is absent in Bosnia. In a conflict such as this where all warring sides clearly do not want peace and look at our troops as occupiers, it is difficult to ascertain exactly what our objectives are.

If we are to send peacekeepers into dangerous situations such as this it is imperative Parliament pass a resolution specifying the objectives of our troops, what objectives they will be attempting to meet.

Canadian troops cannot be pawns in any conflict. We must have a clear role spelled out. This is particularly important when communications between Canada's peacekeeping forces and the Canadian public are weak.

The third criterion of the resolution defines the state or area in which the mission is to operate. Only Parliament should have the authority to specify where our troops are to be committed.

The fourth criterion in the resolution specifies the date on which the authority expires. It is essential for Parliament to decide the exact date on which the mission ends.

Some of our former commitments have seemed unending in scope. Our service in the former Yugoslavia is on a six-month term but other peacekeeping missions, such as our mission to Cyprus, lasted 30 years.

Giving Parliament the authority to determine the date on which the authority is to expire for a mission also gives Parliament the opportunity to cancel or renew the mission. Parliament will be able to evaluate the mission and decide whether we have accomplished our objectives. It can also re-evaluate the conflict and assess whether it has changed in scope and whether we still have a role to play.

In common with the fourth criterion is the fifth. It specifies a maximum planned expenditure for the mission. Peacekeeping missions, like anything else the government does, must have financial bounds. The nation does not have a bottomless purse. We must determine what we can afford.

Clause 4 of the bill also provides for a five-hour debate on the resolution before the question is put to the House. As with any bill, the resolution can pass with or without amendments and it can also be defeated.

The time for Parliament to become accountable to the Canadian people for designating our troops on active duty is now. We must be the ones to decide and those who represent them in Parliament are their voice.

I strongly urge all members of the House to support Bill C-295.

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. Kilger)]

The time provided for the consideration of Private Members' Business has now expired. Pursuant to Standing Order 93, the order is dropped to the bottom of the order of precedence on the Order Paper.

A motion to adjourn the House under Standing Order 38 deemed to have been moved.

[Warren Allmand, Liberal, Notre-Dame-De-Grâce, QC]

Mr. Speaker, on March 13, I asked the Minister of Justice if he would order a full review of the Access to Information Act as recommended by the information commissioner in his 10th anniversary report. In response, the Minister of Justice said that he was considering such a review and hoped to come forward with reforms in due course.

In 1986-87 I was a member of the justice committee which made an extensive review of this act. It issued a report entitled: "Open and Shut" which made 87 recommendations for amendment. Unfortunately, none of those recommendations were implemented by the former Conservative government.

Recently the information commissioner made similar recommendations in three documents entitled: "The Access to Information Act: 10 Years On"; "The Access to Information Act: A Critical Review"; and "Information Technology and Open Government".

The basic principle of this act is that Canadians should have the right to information about their government and to information compiled and held by the government. Of course, this is information paid for with taxpayers' money.

For years prior to the Access to Information Act the government's general policy was to say no whenever information was requested and only to say yes by exception. The purpose of the Access to Information Act was of course to reverse this process. There would be exceptions, of course, for national security, for privacy and for cabinet confidence, but the general rule was to make information available.

The "Open and Shut" report concluded that the act had major shortcomings and weaknesses which should be corrected. As I said, the committee made 87 recommendations to do that.

Among those recommendations were first, that all government institutions, including much of our parliamentary process, be included under the act.

Second, it was recommended that all crown corporations except the CBC be included under the act. These institutions are not included under the act at the present time.

Third, it was recommended that all persons in Canada, not just citizens and residents, have access to the act.

Fourth, it was recommended to entrench the status of the information co-ordinators who are present in every department to facilitate the operation of the act and to give those co-ordinators senior rank in the departments.

Fifth, there were several recommendations with respect to the exemptions. We said that the exemptions should be subject to a significant injury test. We also recommended narrowing certain exemptions.

With respect to the cabinet confidence exemption we said that it should be covered under the act, but subject to a class tested discretionary exemption. In other words, cabinet confidences would not automatically be outside the scope of the act.

We also said that the information commissioner should have the power to issue certain binding orders in some cases, although generally he would still act by recommendation only. We made recommendations that the social insurance number be restricted in its use by outside agencies.

We recommended that the time for answering information requests be reduced from 30 to 20 days. We also recommended that there be legislation to protect whistle blowers within the Government of Canada.

Those are some of the recommendations which were made in 1986-87 in the "Open and Shut" report. I would like to ask the government again tonight if and when it intends to move on the recommendations made in "Open and Shut" in 1986-87 and also on the recommendations made recently by the information commissioner in his 10-year report.

[Russell MacLellan, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member for Notre-Dame-de-Grâce has asked about the government's intentions with respect to reforms of the Access to Information Act.

The act is now 12 years old and much has changed since the act was first adopted. At that time access to information was seen as innovative and statutory rights to government information was thought to be a bold step.

Now we are fully in the information age. Canadians are increasingly purchasing computers and equipping them with modems. They are on the eve of the convergence of the television with computers. Those who have a television will also have the mechanism by which to retrieve information from the world at large. The Internet has completely changed our earlier notions of what access to information means.

The Access to Information Act was studied by a parliamentary committee in 1987. The information commissioner issued extensive recommendations to reform the act on the occasion of its 10th anniversary. The information commissioner also released background information studies he had commissioned, including one on information technology and open government.

The federal government recently adopted a blueprint for improving government services using new technology. It has created the Information Highway Advisory Council which is scheduled to report to the Minister of Industry in the spring.

Federal and provincial governments are engaged in a variety of pilot projects designed to provide more government information and services electronically. In the United States the department of justice has issued a draft consultation paper on electronic access to government information.

These initiatives are making more government information available than has previously been the case. This information is being provided outside the Access to Information Act and therefore with less red tape, more quickly and at virtually no cost to citizens.

All commentators on the Access to Information Act agree that what is needed most of all is a change in attitude that results in more government information becoming routinely available without requiring citizens to request it under the expensive and sometimes slow process of the Access to Information Act.

Progress is being made. There is no question that the Access to Information Act needs reforms. The minister has promised that the government will come forward with reforms.

The Liberal Party has made open government a promise in the red book. The minister has indicated that the Department of Justice is at work identifying areas where reforms could be made. We need to take the minister at his word. Reforms are coming. While precise details and dates are not now available, these will unfold in due course.

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. Kilger)]

Pursuant to Standing Order 38, the motion to adjourn the House is now deemed adopted. Accordingly, this House stands adjourned until tomorrow at 10 a.m., pursuant to Standing Order 24.

(The House adjourned at 6:52 p.m.)