Debates of April 5th, 1995

Cida

[Philippe Paré, Bloc, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, how can the minister, after spending nearly $1 million on the Canadian foreign policy review, ignore a joint committee recommendation to increase funding levels for the Public Participation Program?

[André Ouellet, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, numerous organizations, in Quebec in particular, but also across Canada, do outstanding work in international development. I am thinking of OXFAM Québec, the Léger foundation, the Lajoie foundation and many other organizations carrying out worthwhile development projects abroad.

What we are saying is that we will not only continue to support but in fact increase our support to these organizations in their development programs abroad. We hope that, as far as public awareness is concerned, this work can continue without Canadian organizations taking money that should normally go to the poorest of the poor in the neediest countries.

Indian Affairs

[Myron Thompson, Reform, Wild Rose, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I am from Wild Rose and Stoney Reserve is in Wild Rose. I flew to that site myself just the other day. I know very little about logging so I took two experts with me who do know.

I have never seen such a mess in all my life. It is a disaster. It is worse than the cod. That is how bad it is. Why will the minister not stand on his feet and explain to the House why something was not done for 12 full months?

[Ron Irwin, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, why does the member not start pointing the finger at who actually went in there? B.C. cutters went in there, big time, with a heck of a lot of money for inducement. The logs have to be shared.

What happened there was not right. It was not all Indian doing. Where did those logs go? Those logs went to some big companies in B.C.

[Myron Thompson, Reform, Wild Rose, AB]

Mr. Speaker, maybe some day we can change this from question period to answer period.

I never said the blame was on anybody. I did not blame one individual. I want to know why this department sat back and let that go on for so long and did nothing?

[Ron Irwin, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, I will try to lower the rhetoric.

I refer to what Bishop Hannen of Caledonia said: "It is the duty of Christians to address more than 100 years of native injustice-

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

Cida

[Richard Bélisle, Bloc, La Prairie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Foreign Affairs. We just learned that CIDA has completely cut its support to non-governmental organizations promoting public awareness to international development. That decision directly threatens the survival of over 80 of these NGOs in Quebec and in Canada, as well as that of the Quebec association for international co-operation organizations.

How can the Minister of Foreign Affairs justify cutting CIDA's support to NGOs promoting international co-operation, while awarding a generous contract of $99,510 to his friend, the unsuccessful Liberal candidate in La Prairie, Jacques Saada, for developing a simple communication plan on CIDA's program for the Maghreb?

[André Ouellet, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to tell the hon. member, who got elected the last time, that he had better be good and ready, because next time he will not get re-elected.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[André Ouellet, Liberal, Papineau—Saint-Michel, QC]

He is not impressing his voters with this kind of accusations.

[Richard Bélisle, Bloc, La Prairie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I want to tell the minister that, in the meantime, he is financially supporting the Liberal candidate who was defeated in the October 1993 election, with the money of the taxpayers of Quebec and Canada.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

[Richard Bélisle, Bloc, La Prairie, QC]

Will the minister confirm that, by setting the amount of the contract at $99,510, he was making sure that it would be awarded to his friend Jacques Saada, since, had he gone over $100,000, the contract would have had to be awarded through the tender call procedure?

[André Ouellet, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, it-

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

We want to hear the answer. The Minister of Foreign Affairs has the floor.

[André Ouellet, Liberal, Papineau—Saint-Michel, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to say that the contract was awarded in accordance with the established criteria-

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[André Ouellet, Liberal, Papineau—Saint-Michel, QC]

-that is the standards which were in effect at CIDA when the Leader of the Opposition was a member of the Conservative government. These criteria have not changed. They are still the same as when the opposition leader was a member of the previous government.

Mr. Saada is competent, he does an excellent job and he is being paid for the work he is carrying out.

[English]

Indian Affairs

[Bill Gilmour, Reform, Comox—Alberni, BC]

Mr. Speaker, we hear an awful lot from the Liberal government about sustainable development.

I flew to Stoney Reserve last Friday. The sustainable cut on that reserve was 600 truckloads per year. What went out was 14,000 truckloads per year. Twenty-five to thirty years of sustainable wood went out in one year.

Why did the minister of Indian affairs allow this to happen?

[Ron Irwin, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, I will repeat the same answer. Why can that party not be so forthright in directing us and the Solicitor General to send the RCMP into B.C. and charge these companies there with the money, knowing what they were doing was incorrect? Why is that party not saying that? Why is it leaving the impression this is Indian wrongdoing?

There is a heavier onus on the cutters in B.C. from big companies who know the law, who have lawyers, who have money and have the skills to do exactly what they did. Their chainsaws did it.

[Bill Gilmour, Reform, Comox—Alberni, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the minister would have us believe people from B.C. would float into the Indian reserve and take those trees out. Where is the responsibility of the minister? Where is the responsibility of Indian affairs?

Again, why did he allow this to happen on the Indian reserve when it is his responsibility to make sure it does not happen?

[Ron Irwin, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, I hope this is the last supplementary. I want to advise the hon. member that as of March 31 the RCMP has been in, has made a seizure and has laid a charge.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.