Debates of May 15th, 1995

Ontario Election

[Roger Gallaway, Liberal, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Mr. Speaker, with only 24 days to the Ontario election, Bob Rae is getting desperate.

Last Friday in Thunder Bay the premier and his nearly defunct party reached a new low in campaign dirty tricks. In the middle of an announcement by Liberal leader Lyn McLeod, a member of the NDP's own provincial council, Alex Ng, rushed the podium, screaming in protest.

Later Mr. Ng admitted to the media he was ordered to disrupt the event by the NDP's central campaign, which had paid his flight to Thunder Bay.

The premier apologized for the incident and announced that Mr. Ng was withdrawing from the campaign. Mr. Ng's career as a paid protester may well be over but at least he had a good start on Bob Rae, who will start looking for a new job on June 9.

Chechnya

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, although the Prime Minister says he is concerned about human rights issues, on his recent trip to Russia to attend ceremonies celebrating the 50th anniversary of V-E Day, it was clear once again that the Canadian government's only priority is trade.

In fact, at the very moment when the Russian army continued its attacks in Chechnya, the Prime Minister was discussing a Team Canada trade mission with his Russian counterpart.

My question is directed to the Prime Minister. Considering the foregoing, would the Prime Minister agree that his attitude and that of his government, which subordinates human rights to strictly commercial interests, does not give the Russian authorities any incentive to show more respect for the rights of the Chechen who are now being attacked by the Russian army?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, everyone knows that I raised the issue of the people of Chechnya with President Yeltsin, and I told him personally that his government's attitude did nothing to further Russia's interests in the world.

We were there to celebrate the 50th anniversary of V-E Day. The Russians made an exceptional contribution since 27 million Russians died during the war. We accepted the invitation as a matter of course.

My colleagues in the Western world and myself refused to attend the military parade, but we agreed to attend a parade of veterans who fought during the last war. To show our disapproval of what is now happening in one part of Russia, we boycotted their biggest parade.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am prepared to accept the Prime Minister's reply, but if he really wanted the Russian authorities to take seriously his concerns about human rights violations in Chechnya, why did the Prime Minister not tell them in advance that he would refuse to attend the military parade, as a form of protest, like other heads of state who were not afraid to speak out?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I made it quite clear, although I may not have had a chance to announce my intentions publicly, but in communications with other heads of state, we agreed we would boycott this big military parade, and we did. The Russian government was well aware that Canada would not attend this parade.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister said President Yeltsin gave him assurances that the Russian army had already been replaced by a normal police force in Chechnya. However, immediately after his departure from Russia, the Russian army was again bombing Chechen civilians.

Considering the false assurances the Prime Minister received from the Russian head of state, how does his government intend to put pressure on the Russian authorities to stop human rights violations in Chechnya?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, we have protested on several occasions. My colleague, the Minister of Foreign Affairs, brought this matter up several times with his Russian counterpart. We are putting as much pressure as possible on the government. And if the problem persists, I will have another opportunity to launch a protest when I meet Mr. Yeltsin in Halifax next month.

Telecommunications

[Pierre De Savoye, Bloc, Portneuf, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Industry.

Another item to add to the Power DirecTv file is the submission this company made to the government dictating the steps to be taken to reverse the CRTC's decision allowing Expressvu to begin broadcasting as early as next September but not Power DirecTv.

Will the Minister of Industry admit that he received Power DirecTv's submission and that he dutifully followed all of the instructions contained in the document, which demanded that

the order be tabled in the House before April 24 to prevent Power DirecTv from being put at a disadvantage?

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, although this information is a little dated, I am pleased to answer the hon. member's question. If he had read the document, he would have noticed that we did not follow Power DirecTv's recommendations. In fact, we received many other recommendations in that period. We did not accept all of the suggestions of Power DirecTv, but we did accept all of those made by the Consumers' Association of Canada. The recommendations we accepted were the ones made by that association.

[Pierre De Savoye, Bloc, Portneuf, QC]

Mr. Speaker, that is a very interesting explanation, but let us look at the facts. And, given the appearances, the minister should find this case indecent.

Does he not find it indecent that Power DirecTV, a company owned by the Prime Minister's son-in-law, not only tried to instruct the government on how to settle an issue to its satisfaction, but that worse yet, the government, we have every indication to believe, scrupulously followed its orders and issued a decision tailored to the requests of the company?

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister.

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, I will repeat for the hon. member. He seems to have failed to read a document which I think has been in the public domain.

Certainly others have quoted from this submission received by the government from Power Direct, one of many received after the expert panel's report was tabled. In the case of this one, which asked that we make changes to the direction and table it on April 24, he will know we did not make changes to the direction and we did not table it until April 26.

On many important elements we did not take its recommendations. What we acted on were the very general and very supportive recommendations of the Consumers Association of Canada, Friends of Canadian Broadcasting, ACTRA, et cetera. We took our recommendations from people who are concerned about competition in this field in Canada.

Gun Control

[Jack Ramsay, Reform, Crowfoot, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Justice has assured us Bill C-68 is constitutional. He has assured us that Canada's aboriginal groups have been made part of this consultation process.

Last Friday Mr. Mosley, the assistant deputy minister, stated consultation with the James Bay Cree took place when the government provided the country with its white paper on firearms control and through the issuance of Bill C-68. He denied that constitutional rights of aboriginal people had been violated.

Is the justice minister's definition of a consultation the mere provision of what he intends to do with firearms legislation? Does this explain why he has stated repeatedly he has consulted with various groups and individuals including the James Bay Cree, the attorneys general of Saskatchewan, Alberta and Manitoba and the ministers of justice from Yukon and the Northwest Territories, who have all stated they were not consulted by the justice minister?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I engaged in consultation for many months before tabling last November 30 the government's proposals, before tabling Bill C-68 on February 14 of this year.

This consultation was not done through officials. It was not done through publishing an options document. It was done personally by my visiting all 10 provinces and both territories to meet with national, regional and local firearms groups as well as representatives of aboriginal communities.

The views we heard during that consultation process were carefully and fully reflected in the legislation we put before Parliament.

[Jack Ramsay, Reform, Crowfoot, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I have a letter signed by Ovide Mercredi to the minister. He says: "For God's sake, respect our rights".

Bill C-68 has some draconian search and seizure provisions. The police are given enormous powers and discretion to inspect for firearms and search and seize without warrant. At one time Canada had writs of assistance which were in effect permanent, blanket search warrants. They were withdrawn and these kinds of searches are no longer allowed.

Is the minister intending to bring back something even more reprehensible than writs of assistance through his so-called inspection provisions?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I am fully aware of the hon. member's recent enthusiasm for aboriginal rights as well as his recent discovery of the importance of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

He is a very hard working member of the very parliamentary committee now hearing witnesses and examining clause by clause the provisions of the bill. If he has a constructive suggestion with respect to the implementation of this act in a fashion sensitive to aboriginal traditions and customs, I hope he will make it in committee and we will listen.

[Jack Ramsay, Reform, Crowfoot, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the worst thing we can do as a government is create laws and agreements with the native people and then violate those very agreements.

There is growing concern from groups about many aspects of the bill. The Canadian Bar Association and the Canadian Civil Liberties Associations are both concerned about Bill C-68. The Canadian Bar Association will publicly elaborate its concerns regarding the constitutionality of the so-called inspection, search and seizure powers.

Is the justice minister still confident his bill is constitutional in every respect?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

I am, Mr. Speaker, but the very purpose of having hearings before a committee is to enable groups such as those referred to by the hon. member to come forward and express their views.

I have had no doubt from the beginning the bill can be improved by that process. I listened with interest to the views expressed to date and I will listen with interest to the views to be expressed by the Canadian Bar Association.

Let me make clear if there are ways the bill can be improved with respect to the inspection procedures or others we are very happy to have those proposals. We will take the proposals from the bar association and others and give them serious consideration.

Agusta

[Jean-Paul Marchand, Bloc, Québec-Est, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Public Works categorically refused last week to break off negotiations between the federal government and the firm Agusta regarding potential compensation for the Liberal government's cancellation of the contract for the EH-101 helicopters. The Prime Minister stated a few days after his election that the contract would be cancelled and no compensation would be paid to anyone.

How does the Minister of Public Works justify his current negotiations with Agusta, when the Prime Minister stated a few days after his election, and I quote: "The program is cancelled and there is no compensation for anybody"?

[David Dingwall, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services and Minister for the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member will know that under the terms of the contract there are various provisions whereby the Government of Canada must provide some funding to the contractor.

The Prime Minister's statements were made with that in mind. We are proceeding with our negotiations as we would proceed under any other normal circumstances upon the termination of any contract with the Government of Canada.

[Jean-Paul Marchand, Bloc, Québec-Est, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in view of the fact that Agusta has just hired the former director of communications of the Liberal Party of Canada, Daniel Despins, and the former special adviser to Pierre Elliott Trudeau, James Peacey, as lobbyists in order to sell helicopters to the Government of Canada, would the minister of public works assure us that he is not negotiating a new contract on the quiet with Agusta, in exchange for compensation for the cancellation of the last contract?

[David Dingwall, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services and Minister for the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member has made reference to two individuals, neither of whom I have seen, heard, or communicated with since I have become a minister of the crown.

I want to assure the hon. member that whatever a particular company does or who it hires is certainly its prerogative. There have been no representations made to me as a minister of the crown regarding that particular incident.

Gun Control

[Myron Thompson, Reform, Wild Rose, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the weekend edition of The Globe and Mail ran a feature story on illegal gun sales in Canada. In that article, Detective Geoffrey Francis, who headed a gun running task force in the Toronto area, stated: ``We already have good, strong laws in Canada for controlling firearms. We have to start enforcing them''.

For 18 months the minister has done nothing to enforce the laws we have. Why is the minister not enforcing the existing laws instead of creating new laws that will do absolutely no good?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, that article effectively pointed out the importance of taking action with respect to the smuggling of firearms. However, the fact that this problem exists does not mean that other things are not also needed. We have to address all these concerns.

The minister of revenue and the people working in his department, the solicitor general and members of the RCMP are all working closely with other police forces. Indeed, when I met with the attorney general of the United States here in Ottawa in March, the first item on the agenda was the need for our

governments to work together more effectively to deal with the smuggling of firearms.

I fully agree with the hon. member, it is an important issue. It needs more attention, and it will get it.

[Myron Thompson, Reform, Wild Rose, AB]

Mr. Speaker, if he agrees with me, he should have agreed with me 18 months ago and got off his backside and done something about it.

I will ask the justice minister one simple question. Since he is fully aware and has been made aware by a number of people that registration will do nothing to curb crime, why does he not scrap that whole idea and save the taxpayers a lot of dollars?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, if I were to do such a thing I would disappoint the strongest supporters of registration, the chiefs of police of the country, the frontline police officers, the Canadian Police Association, the mayors of cities, the professional health care workers, people who know of the close, the practical, and the demonstrable connection between registration of firearms and achieving greater public safety.