Debates of May 19th, 1995

Privilege

[The Speaker]

No. We are having a debate here. I do not want to get into debate. I want to stick precisely to the question of privilege. I am granting a great deal of leniency and latitude for all members.

Again, I ask members to speak to the question of privilege. I do not want the House to be seized of a debate.

[Don Boudria, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the issue raised by the hon. member this morning may be different from the incident raised yesterday.

No doubt it is a parallel one involving the same committee. The Speaker's previous ruling on the issue brought by another hon. member the day before would be applicable to the case before the House this morning.

Furthermore, yesterday the committee of procedure and House affairs, pursuant to part of the ruling by the Speaker, has been doing some preliminary work in the whole area of rules as they apply to the work of committees.

We adopted a motion proposed by one of the members who has at least attempted to rise on a question of privilege this morning from the Reform Party to address those very rules.

Earlier this morning there were informal negotiations to attempt to solve the dispute at hand. I do not want to describe them as it would be improper. I am hoping we will continue those discussions in the next few minutes to come to some kind of consensus by which we can afford the House to function properly in its committees.

I recognize, as the hon. member for Kingston and the Islands has said, the importance of the work of the opposition in the House. The Deputy Prime Minister and I have probably served longer in opposition than anyone else in the Chamber. We served too long in opposition.

In any case, we recognize that situation and we are attempting through some of these negotiations to resolve it. I hoped to continue with those private negotiations prior to this question of privilege.

[The Speaker]

I will go to a final intervention by the hon. member for Elk Island if he has new information to bring on my ruling.

[Ken Epp, Reform, Elk Island, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I have two very important things.

First, the incident I reported which grieves me so seriously occurred after the member for Frazer Valley East came to you to give his intervention yesterday. It happened afterwards. That is very significant. It is also of a completely different nature.

Second, I was using the instruction as I understood it from Standing Order 48(1):

Whenever any matter of privileges arises, it shall be taken into consideration immediately.

This says to me I have the right to not wait until that committee gave me the permission to come here. That is why I took the initiative to come.

[The Speaker]

Colleagues, the points are well taken on both sides. I do not come from another venue. I am one of you and I can understand many of the frustrations when a member is in opposition.

I can also understand, having served in government, that the government has a right to get on with its legislation. Therefore there are two things to be balanced here.

Your Speaker is always guided by the rules of the House of Commons. He is also guided by the precedents of other Speakers and in other Parliaments.

I heard today that in this circumstance one of the committees of the House is trying to-I hate to use the word rectify-at least ameliorate the situation so all sides can get on with what the hon. member for Fraser Valley East has said is their job, to represent the people of their constituencies.

On the specific point of privilege, the Speaker will respond to a report from the committee. That is the responsibility of the Speaker. However, your Speaker cannot be expected to be in all committees, to know precisely what is happening in all committees, except through their chairs which the House has approved.

We now have a circumstance of a committee's carrying out its responsibilities. That all members do not agree with what is happening in the committee is normal for this place.

However, I will wait until I have a report from the committee. When the report comes in, whatever is in there, if the hon. member at that time chooses to raise a point of privilege, I give notice now, as is the precedent of the House, that I will hear the point of privilege.

Concerning the rules stating a member must make intervention as soon as possible, the hon. member has done that. He is here now in front of me. Should it be brought up again at a future date, when the report of the committee comes out your Speaker will entertain such a point of privilege.

However, for the time being it is my decision that the committees are masters of their own work and that committee work must follow procedure and be brought to us here in the House. If there is a problem which can only be resolved by the House, then the House will become seized of it.

However, I rule at this time the hon. member, with all due respect, does not have a point of privilege.

Order In Council Appointments

[Peter Milliken, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to table, in both official languages, a number of order in council appointments made by the government. Pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order 110(1), these are deemed referred to the appropriate standing committees, a list of which is attached.

Government Response To Petitions

[Peter Milliken, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order 36(8), I have the honour to table, in both official languages, the government's response to six petitions.

Canadian Advisory Council On The Status Of Women

[Peter Milliken, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, while I am on my feet I will table the annual report for 1993-94 of the Canadian Advisory Council on the Status of Women, in both official languages.

Interparliamentary Delegations

[George Proud, Liberal, Hillsborough, PE]

Mr. Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order 34(1), I have the honour to present to the House, in both official languages, the sixth report of the Canadian NATO Parliamentary Association which represented Canada at the standing committee meeting of the North Atlantic Assembly, NATO parliamentarians, held in Marmaris, Turkey, April 8 to 10, 1995.

[Charles Caccia, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Mr. Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order 34(1), I have the honour to present to the House, in both official languages, the report of the Canada-Europe Parliamentary Association regarding the 22nd annual meeting of the Canadian and European Parliaments held in Brussels, Belgium, from March 18 to March 25, 1995.

Committees Of The House

[Peter Milliken, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, I have the honour to present the 78th report of the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs concerning the associate membership of the Standing Committee on Finance. With the consent of the House, I intend to move for concurrence in this report later today.

[Don Boudria, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I have the honour to present, in both official languages, the 15th report of the Standing Committee on Finance concerning Bill C-76, an act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on February 27, 1995.

I have the honour as well to present, in both official languages, the 16th report of the Standing Committee on Finance on the implications arising out of Bill C-76, an act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on February 27, 1995.

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the official opposition wants to express its dissent with regard to the 15th report of the Liberal majority on the Standing Committee on Finance. We are opposed, among other things, to the promotion of national standards in relation to the Canada social transfer.

The official opposition's dissenting opinion is annexed to Liberal majority report.

Cultural Property Export And Import Act

[Michel Dupuy, Liberal, Minister of Canadian Heritage]

moved for leave to introduce Bill C-93, an act to amend the Cultural Property Export and Import Act, the Income Tax Act and the Tax Court of Canada Act.

(Motions deemed adopted, bill read the first time and printed.)

Manganese Based Fuel Additives Act

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment]

moved for leave to introduce Bill C-94, an act to regulate interprovincial trade in and the importation for commercial purposes of certain manganese based substances.

(Motions deemed adopted, bill read the first time and printed.)

Committees Of The House

[Peter Milliken, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, I think you would find unanimous consent to proceed with concurrence in the 78th report of the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs, which I tabled earlier this day.

I move that the 78th report of the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs, presented to the House earlier this day, be concurred in.

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. Kilger)]

Does the hon. parliamentary secretary have the unanimous consent of the House to move the motion?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[An hon. member]

Not at this time.

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. Kilger)]

There is not unanimous consent.

[Peter Milliken, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, I also seek the unanimous consent of the House for the following motion. I move:

That the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans be authorized to travel to Gaspé, Îles-de-la-Madeleine, Summerside, Barrington, Sydney, St. George and Petty Harbour from June 5 to June 10, 1995, in order to study the restructuring of the fisheries industry, and that a staff of five do accompany the committee.

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. Kilger)]

The House has heard the terms of the motion. Is it agreed?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[An hon. member]

Not at this time.

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. Kilger)]

There is not unanimous consent.