Debates of May 19th, 1995

Infrastructure Funding

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, I understand that the basic premise of the member's question is false. There is no bailout of any hockey team.

I am astonished the Reform Party, which swept into office in western Canada on the wave of allowing people to have their say locally, is now prepared to turn its back on the local initiative of the city of Winnipeg that sees this is a priority. Who are you-

[The Speaker]

In the heat of rhetoric we sometimes get carried away but I am feeling awfully lonely. Please address your remarks to the Chair.

Transfer Payments

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Perhaps we will finally get an answer.

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Since he itabled his budget on February 27, the Minister of Finance keeps repeating that, next year, the cuts in transfer payments to the provinces will represent only a $350 million shortfall for Quebec, mocking the $650 million figure put forward by the official opposition.

Yesterday however, in his testimony before the finance committee, Bill Murphy, a senior official at the Department of

Finance, assessed this shortfall at $625 million, which is very close to the amount put forward by the official opposition.

In light of the statements made by finance officials, does the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs still maintain, as his colleague from finance does, that cuts in the Canada social transfer will translate into a $350 million shortfall for Quebec in 1996-97, and not $650 million as suggested by the official opposition?

[Marcel Massé, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada]

Mr. Speaker, there are three factor affecting transfers to the Province of Quebec: equalization payments, tax points and cash payments.

When Bloc members or the Parti Quebecois finance minister quote an amount of approximately $650 million, they are not taking into account tax points or equalization payments, or both.

I repeat that the exact shortfall figure, when you factor in the reduced transfers to Quebec and these three sources, is only $350 million.

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the federal government has control over its cash transfers to the provinces and those are the transfers that were cut back in the last budget. These cuts total $650 million for Quebec. The federal government's own officials said so yesterday. They are the ones who brief the Minister of Finance and they should brief this government.

Why does the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs persist in denying the facts, if not to conceal from Quebec until after the referendum the true extent of Ottawa's cuts to social program funding? The shortfall will reach $650 million next year.

[Marcel Massé, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada]

Mr. Speaker, one cannot conceal the truth by playing with figures. It was clearly set out in the agreements negotiated by the federal government and the provinces-read them-that transfers to Quebec would be in the form of tax points and cash payments.

Also, equalization payments are not freebies given for one reason or another to the provinces. These payments are made to have-not provinces, so that all the provinces, rich or poor, can offer comparable levels of public services. Consider that more than 60 per cent of provincial expenditures are social expenditures. So, equalization payments are clearly part and parcel of the transfers designed to fund social programs.

Logic demands that the three types of transfers be taken into account in determining that the shortfall is only $350 million.

Pensions

[Stephen Harper, Reform, Calgary West, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Industry thinks that highly paid CEOs set a bad example for ordinary Canadian workers. I think I have heard it all now.

The minister is eligible to receive $1.5 million in pension payments in a plan that is three times more generous than the best private sector plans. What kind of an example does he think this sends to the ordinary Canadian workers who are paying for it?

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to explain exactly the point I made in a speech I gave to the Canadian Association of Family Enterprises last week.

At this stage in our economic cycle when corporate profits are recovering, which is a very good sign, it is time for Canadians to continue to invest in further productivity gains and further competitiveness as we had through the economic cycle.

We have been very successful in gaining competitive points vis-a-vis the rest of the world although much of it has unfortunately been based on our exchange rate. We need to continue to save and continue to invest.

Canadians from coast to coast have lived on no increase in family income on average over the past 10 years. They will be asked by their corporate leaders to continue to keep their belts tight as federal public servants have and as all members of the House of Commons have by not taking a wage increase in over five years. The time is not yet to start raising wages. The time is now to continue to invest and save.

[Stephen Harper, Reform, Calgary West, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I respectively suggest that the minister and the government should save their managerial advice for the companies that managed to lose over $35 billion last year.

I wonder what business the government and the minister think they have commenting on the issue of private compensation when yesterday the government, in alliance with the separatists, decided that it would refuse to hear testimony from private citizens, from private organizations and from ordinary taxpayers on the issue of MP pensions.

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, I think one point needs to be made very clearly. I made the point in the interview I gave based on that speech. I really do not have any particular interest in what any CEO is paid. I am not a shareholder of any of the companies.

However what is clear is that Canada stands poised to succeed very well on issues of competitiveness in the world. Now is the time for us to continue to save and invest.

This man wants to talk about pensions. That is all they really think about. I will tell him something. When we deal with issues of compensation in the House, let us talk about what it costs many people to be here as well. Let us cost out what the forgone opportunities are. Then we will put everybody on an even footing.

At the same time let us also recognize that members come to Ottawa to serve their constituents often at great cost to themselves and their families. We are looking for a recipe for continuing competitiveness in the world. In that way we will benefit all Canadians.

Immigration

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Verchères, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration.

Once again, the minister has refused to grant entry visas to three Algerian actors scheduled to participate in the Theatre Festival of the Americas, in Montreal. At the same time, we have learned that Mr. Abdennour who, according to the Quebec-Algeria committee, is a lawyer close to the Islamic salvation front, was granted a visa by the Canadian embassy, in Paris.

How does the Minister of Immigration explain the fact that a person close to the Islamic salvation front can come to Canada without any problems, while Algerian actors who denounce torture and fundamentalism cannot do so?

[Sergio Marchi, Liberal, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, the member is mistaken because the minister has refused no visitor visa to anyone. The visitor visa is done on a processed basis. It should be done fairly and not with any favouritism to anyone regardless of background.

There are a million applications for visitor visas. Surely the member does not expect a minister or a government to be interventionist with visitor visa applications easily and loosely. Eighty-five per cent of all applications are approved.

There is a process in place that if a visitor visa is refused, the remedy is to reapply and try to address some of the concerns. The member should know one of the three actors has gone to the embassy today to make such a formal reapplication. The other two actors have not seen fit to go back.

We should allow the individuals to do as they please, rather than to force the issue and play politics on the backs of a visitor visa program.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Verchères, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the minister's explanations, but this is not the first time that such a situation has occurred.

Given the obvious incompetence of his departmental officials at the Canadian embassy in Paris, who make surprising decisions almost on a daily basis, will the minister tell them to shape up, so as to put a stop to these errors in judgment, which have become too frequent?

[Sergio Marchi, Liberal, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, his leader used to be a Canadian ambassador to France, situated in Paris. It was under his leader's jurisdiction as well that some visitor visa applications coming through France were accepted, some were refused, and some were reviewed. That was the process when his leader used to be a Canadian ambassador in France. That continues to be the process today.

What I would suggest is that the situation in Algeria, by no means easy or by no means orderly, should be solved by the international community. What I would suggest to the hon. member, however, is that to utilize a visitor visa program for any one country is not the solution and it would jeopardize our visitor visa program internationally.

There is a way to deal with refugee crises. There is a way to deal with how to utilize a country's forces to address a destabilized area. That solution, however, does not lie in a visitor visa program.

International Trade

[George Proud, Liberal, Hillsborough, PE]

Mr. Speaker, my question deals with international trade.

A recent study by the accounting firm KPMG has indicated that cheaper labour, cheaper benefits, and a cheaper dollar make Canada a very competitive place in which to do business, more competitive in fact than the United States.

Would the minister please tell the House what this study means to Canadian workers, to Canadian business, and to Canada's role in the global community?

[Roy MacLaren, Liberal, Minister for International Trade]

The report to which the hon. member for Hillsborough refers substantiates the conclusions of similar studies in the recent past that have emphasized Canada's highly competitive position in the global marketplace. Thanks to a number of

measures that have been taken, including such factors as payroll and benefits, material and energy inputs, taxes, research and development costs, and distribution costs, as the report notes, Canada has become increasingly competitive.

I would want to emphasize that in creating jobs through such international competitiveness, the principal factor that is going to play in the future is the excellent budget the Minister of Finance brought down, which will increase further Canada's competitiveness.

Ebola Virus

[Art Hanger, Reform, Calgary Northeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, phone lines have been lighting up in my office in Ottawa and in my constituency over the Ebola virus. People believe that they are not being protected by their own government. They are frustrated with the health minister's non-answers to direct questions.

Now that we have the minister in a forum where she cannot run away, I ask the minister why she chose to withhold information from Canadians regarding the number of people who have been detained at Pearson because they were suspected of carrying the Ebola virus.

[Diane Marleau, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, no information has been withheld. We have been quite straightforward about describing the two individuals.

The first individual arrived in Toronto. It had been three weeks since he had been in Zaire. The period of incubation had passed. The gentleman was nevertheless examined by a physician and was found to be in very good health.

The second individual arrived in Toronto. He claimed that his mother had died after visiting Kikwit. He has been detained, is under quarantine. Nevertheless, he is in good health and has no signs of illness.

These are the facts.

[Art Hanger, Reform, Calgary Northeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, that is the same kind of babble we heard yesterday.

Canadians need to know if they have a Minister of Health and a Minister of Immigration who have the wherewithal to take direct proactive measures to protect the health of Canadians.

There is a simple solution to all of this. Will the immigration minister put Canadians' minds at ease by stopping the threat at the source? Will he place a temporary moratorium on visitors' visas from Zaire and surrounding regions until this disease is safely contained there?

[Sergio Marchi, Liberal, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, I find this member of Parliament irresponsible in the way he is trying to exploit the situation.

What the member should do is take a page from the health critic of the Reform Party, who yesterday said-and he is a doctor-that the government's action and approach to dealing with this dilemma were "sensible".

Today instead we have the immigration critic, who is not a doctor and not responsible or respectful of what his colleague said, saying his phone is lighting up and things are on the downslide. You are fearmongering, that is what you are doing.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

Government Contracts

[René Canuel, Bloc, Matapédia—Matane, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Deputy Prime Minister.

Following a review of all outside research contracts awarded by the Department of Natural Resources in the last five years, we came to some pretty damning conclusions. Our study indicates that Quebec research centres and companies got only 10 per cent of these contracts.

How can the Deputy Prime Minister justify the fact the Quebec gets less than half of its fair share of those outside research and development contracts?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for his question. Obviously, we are not responsible for the contracts awarded by the previous Conservative government. Obviously, we are not responsible for the funds allocated in the last five years.

We will of course try to direct our grants on the basis of need. For example, a national pulp and paper centre was set up in Montreal, because that is where most of the interest and the technology in that field can be found. I do not think we will start to allocate funds according to regional development. We should instead spend the money where the expertise is, such as for mining in Abitibi and PAPRICAN in Montreal.