Debates of May 2nd, 1995

Fisheries

[Bernard St-Laurent, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans.

On April 13, in an unprecedented decision, the federal Minister of Fisheries and Oceans revealed his plan for managing snow crab in 1995, which will deprive Quebec fishermen of 400 tonnes of crab, which will be transferred to Prince Edward Island and Nova Scotia. This improvised transfer will mean the loss of 40 plant jobs and over $3 million for fishermen of the Gaspé and Magdalen Islands.

How does the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans justify his decision to transfer 400 tonnes of crab fishing quota from Quebec to Prince Edward Island and Nova Scotia?

[Brian Tobin, Liberal, Minister of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for his question and for his interest in the management of the snow crab fishery in the gulf since this fishery is extremely valuable for all of the participants.

The member will know that literally thousands of inshore fishermen, small boat fisherman throughout Atlantic Canada, including fishermen in Quebec, have been asking for a share of this resource during a time when prices are at a historic high and when landings are at a historic high.

Therefore, I have taken a decision which gives many fishermen in Quebec an opportunity this year to participate in the snow crab fishery on a temporary basis when prices and landings are high. As those prices and landings turn down, the historic share between the provinces in snow crab returns exactly to normal.

If my friend is telling me, and he may want to correct himself, that he does not want anybody but those who already have access to the resource, those who already have big incomes, to share in the wealth, then perhaps he can tell me that is the position of the Bloc Quebecois, but I would be surprised.

[Bernard St-Laurent, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the minister talks of sharing, but is he aware that this is the third decision by the federal government in only six months that is unfavourable to Quebec fishermen?

[Brian Tobin, Liberal, Minister of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Speaker, I cannot absolutely assure the member there is no change in the structure, no change in the sharing arrangement in access on a permanent basis for those who have permanent licences in snow crab.

If the member's concern is fairness, then I ask him to listen to what I am saying. The only change this year is temporary. Literally some of the boats in the midshore made $600,000 to $700,000 per boat last year. It is to take some of that tremendous wealth and for this season with high prices and high quotas to share some of the resource.

I believe my hon. friend would want to support that kind of initiative to ensure that the fishermen of Quebec are given a fair and balanced share of the resource.

Pacific Salmon Fishery

[Ron MacDonald, Liberal, Dartmouth, NS]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans as well.

For the past few months Canadians have applauded and supported the federal government's tough stand on what has become known as the east coast turbot dispute. There is an equally important fishery on the west coast which is under pressure from environmental factors as well as unresolved disputes with the United States.

Will the minister assure this House that he is prepared to take equally principled and responsible measures to ensure the long term viability of the Pacific salmon fishery?

[Brian Tobin, Liberal, Minister of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for his question on the Pacific salmon fishery. Indeed an important part of Canada's heritage is the tremendous resource called the Pacific salmon in the greatest river bar none in this country, the Fraser River.

I want to assure him and all the fishermen in the House that as recently as last week I met with the U.S. ambassador and the negotiators for both Canada and the United States. We are looking at the possibility of bringing in a mediator to resolve our outstanding differences in the Pacific salmon treaty.

In the interim I assure the House and the people of Canada that we will have the toughest conservation regime which has ever been put in place to ensure the preservation of the Pacific salmon stocks in 1995.

Aboriginal Fishing Strategy

[Dick Harris, Reform, Prince George—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development.

I have in my possession a leaked secret document from the minister's department which states: "The fisheries situation has become volatile as more and more aboriginals try to exercise perceived fishing rights to the detriment of a properly regulated fishing industry".

Why does the minister continue to allow the native fishing protest on the east coast and why does he continue to defend the aboriginal fishing strategy on the west coast when his own advisers are confirming that native fishing is not properly monitored and has become a severe threat to Canada's fishing resource?

[Ron Irwin, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, I would agree with the hon. member on one point. There has to be monitoring of any system we put in place. As the minister of fisheries made quite clear, we have to have monitoring internationally. We have to know figures, so I agree with that.

As far as the volatility is concerned, I will tell the hon. member why there is volatility. It is because on April 28 on a B.C. open line show he called the natives of B.C. non-contributors.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[Some hon. members]

Shame.

[Ron Irwin, Liberal, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

"Well certainly, Ben, and the whole thing that is dividing the native and non-native population is the fact, you know, so many people are just not in agreement with non-contributors", referring to the aboriginal people. As long as Reform has this attitude there will be a volatile situation in B.C.

Going back to what I said, the majority of the people in B.C. want to do the fair thing with the aboriginal people who live there.

[Dick Harris, Reform, Prince George—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, consider that these secret documents speak of the detrimental effects of native fishing. Consider that millions of west coast salmon went missing in 1994. Consider that the Fraser River report slams the AFS pilot sales project as not being effectively monitored. Will the minister today take the advice of his own officials and protect our fisheries resource by immediately calling for a suspension of the aboriginal fishing strategy?

[Brian Tobin, Liberal, Minister of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Speaker, I want to respond to the questions about the aboriginal fishing strategy which is administered by the Department of Fisheries and Oceans.

Let me respond by saying to the member that it is tragically easy but patently irresponsible for people to stand and suggest that one category of Canadians is responsible for all of the problems in the fishery. All of us bear responsibility from every community to the fishery. It is transparently partisan in the worst sense of the word to single out one community and blame it for the problems we have had.

There are 35 recommendations in the Fraser panel report. All 35 recommendations within an hour of being publicly launched were accepted by this government. All 35 recommendations are going to be implemented. The cost of conservation will be borne by First Nations peoples yes, and by everybody else who participates in the fishery as well.

Low Level Flights

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question as well is for the indian affairs minister.

The government agreed to an increase in the number of low level flights over Labrador and Quebec. Despite aboriginal protest, the government's decision will result in close to a threefold increase in the number of low level flights. This position faithfully reflects the Canadian army's point of view and does not take into account the people concerned nor the opinion of many environmentalist groups.

Can the minister tell us if he endorses the decision taken by his defence colleague and how he intends to justify it to the aboriginal people concerned, who are steadfastly opposed to these flights?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the decision I announced yesterday which accepted most of the recommendations of the environmental assessment panel report is a government decision. It is a collective decision. It is a decision that was taken in the best interests of all Canadians with respect to the obligations we have to our allies as part of the NATO alliance.

It is one where the economy of Newfoundland and Labrador will continue to benefit in excess of $100 million a year. Over 1,000 people will continue to be gainfully employed, 30 per cent of them from the aboriginal communities.

To assure those who believe that the continuation and even the expansion of the number of flights is perhaps environmentally unsafe, we have accepted the recommendation to set up an institute for monitoring the environmental concerns. A third party will be appointed to make recommendations in the setting up of that institute. We fully expect the aboriginal communities to be equal partners in the establishment of the institute.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is still for the indian affairs minister.

How can the indian affairs minister, who is letting the national defence minister answer for him, be an accomplice in the decision taken by his defence colleague, in view of the fact that he is the trustee of the rights of the aboriginal people and the custodian of their interests throughout Canada? I want the minister to answer this question.

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the Department of National Defence is the lead ministry on this file.

In the deliberation on the environmental assessment panel's report a number of ministers were involved, including the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment, my colleague from Newfoundland, and of course, the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development. At all times we were very sensitive to the concerns of the aboriginal peoples and in particular, the Innu who have some difficulty with the recommendations and will have some difficulty with the implementation of this report.

We are inviting all aboriginal Canadians concerned, especially the Innu, to take part in the institute to absolutely assure all of us that the monitoring is done in a proper and safe manner so that these flights can continue.

Aboriginal Affairs

[Randy White, Reform, Fraser Valley West, BC]

Mr. Speaker, we are quoting directly from this leaked document.

The minister of fisheries should put his smart remarks to the minister of Indian affairs.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Colleagues, perhaps on both sides we are getting more and more into debate rather than questions and answers. I would invite the hon. member to please put his question.

[Randy White, Reform, Fraser Valley West, BC]

Mr. Speaker, this document from Indian affairs shows over $32 million has been handed over to 10 Indian groups to negotiate self-government. To quote from the document: "Central agencies are concerned about cost and dispersal of effort on aboriginal files. DFO and health want action on treaties to support operational policies".

Will the minister of Indian affairs confirm the tremendous significance of this statement that not only does he not know what he is doing or what in the world his policy is, but he is also dragging down and impeding the initiatives of other government departments which are pressuring him to get on with solving his problems?

[Ron Irwin, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, I do not know what category the hon. member is talking about. If he is talking about community based self-government, this program had gone on for about eight or nine years before we arrived back in government. If he is not, he will have to clarify it later.

As far as what Reform is doing here today, I have this reflection. The Reform Party does not care about the 1760 Murray treaty or the Hurons, the Cree, the Ojibway, or Treaty 6. What Reform wants to do is to go to its last issue in B.C. and disrupt the B.C treaty process. That is Reform's agenda.

We have spent the better part of a year and one-half getting 120 First Nations to the table. That is something the Reform could never do in the millennium. They are negotiating and we are committed to the B.C. treaty process, no matter what the Reform members do or how disruptive they are.

[Randy White, Reform, Fraser Valley West, BC]

Mr. Speaker, it is very interesting that the hon. member knows the Reform agenda. Perhaps this question might help him out a little bit.

Since 1991, $4.6 million has been granted to the Siksika first nation in Alberta to negotiate a self-government agreement. We now learn from this document that the Siksika dropped out of the process so it could pursue negotiations from a direction beyond

the mandate of current federal policy. In fact, we now learn there is no federal policy, so is it any wonder it dropped out.

Can the minister tell the House if there is any recourse to recoup the $4.6 million blunder?

[Ron Irwin, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, by way of background, in Alberta where the Siksika are, the treaty is sacred. They say it is sacred and they do not feel we have fulfilled the spirit and intent of the treaty.

Chief Strater Crowfoot is one of the pre-eminent chiefs in this country. He has had a difficult time with his first nation. The difficulty is that he wants to establish trust with the federal government. We will work with him and hope that he gets back into the system.

Rather than saying that Strater Crowfoot and the Siksika are temporarily out of the process, I want to go back to what the Minister of Justice said when members of the House voted for gun control. Forty First Nations are still in the process and still working toward completion.

Small Business

[Harold Culbert, Liberal, Carleton—Charlotte, NB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Industry.

This government has always supported small business and it is the government's belief that small business is the key to continued prosperity and the creation of employment. Will the minister outline for us some of the government's current plans and actions to assist small business to grow and prosper?