Debates of May 9th, 1995

Canadian Broadcasting Corporation

[Albina Guarnieri, Liberal, Mississauga East, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I offer sincere congratulations to the CBC on its coverage of the Victory in Europe celebrations.

I am sure members from both sides of the House will join me in praising the CBC for its reporting of these important events, including eight hours of broadcasting on the main television service during prime time.

I would like to congratulate the employees of the CBC for this coverage, which will benefit not only those who lived through those war time horrors, but also future generations who will want to remember the sacrifices their ancestors made.

I am confident all Canadians are proud of the men and women who contributed so courageously to that victory 50 years ago and also applaud the men and women who ensure those actions live in our memories.

We will not forget those men and women as well as their sacrifices due in part to the work of our national public broadcaster in bringing these once in a lifetime celebrations to the attention of our citizens.

Grandparents

[Bonnie Brown, Liberal, Oakville—Milton, ON]

Mr. Speaker, last week when the House passed the motion by the member for Mission-Coquitlam, we together affirmed that we regard the opinions of grandparents regarding the welfare of their grandchildren as important. I hope we assign the same importance to their opinions when they speak on the issues of the day.

This morning a small group of grandparents gathered outside the Centre Block to express their views on gun control and Bill C-68. In costumes they sang humorous songs in support of gun registration which they see as an integral part of civic responsibility. It was the Ottawa chapter of the "Raging Grannies", a nationwide group of grandmothers advocating world peace. Its members see our legislation as a logical next step in their efforts to ensure a safer social environment for their grandchildren.

We all understand the special love and dedication grandparents have for their grandchildren. We recognized it last week. We would do well to heed their advice on all issues which affect the welfare of children.

As a mother and grandmother I welcome and support the participation of the "Raging Grannies"-

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Niagara Falls.

Niagara Falls

[Gary Pillitteri, Liberal, Niagara Falls, ON]

Mr. Speaker, this weekend Niagara Falls celebrates the 36th anniversary of the blossom festival parade.

The tender fruit lands of Ontario delight us with the beauty of their blossoms. Its industry, which contributes to our economy, is also the source of 15,000 jobs.

A severe crisis is facing the industry. Its survival may well depend on the implementation of the strategic plan completed by the working group on December 19, 1994. Because of escalating labour costs, tariff cutbacks under the free trade agreement and the deregulation of the industry, growers are experiencing heavy ongoing losses.

Imports control prices so growers cannot recover cost increases from the market and the lands are frozen for agricultural purposes.

The recommendations contained in the revitalization plan may provide workable solutions to the problem.

Minister Of Labour

[Louis Plamondon, Bloc, Richelieu, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the Minister of Labour dismissed out of hand the modest constitutional demands of the president of the No camp in Quebec, Mr. Daniel Johnson.

When asked to comment on Mr. Johnson's remarks that some day, Canada would recognize Quebec's national identity, which in political terms would translate into new powers, the minister answered as follows: "We will see what that means. This is very difficult. Do not ask me to comment. I do not even know what he is talking about".

After criticizing the federal government's policies on education, health and manpower training, after urging the rest of Canada to recognize Quebec as a distinct society, the minister has now become the apostle of quiet resignation. Instead of representing Quebec in Ottawa, the Minister of Labour willingly echoes the federal position in Quebec.

Westray Mine

[Dave Chatters, Reform, Athabasca, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I rise in the House today to mark the third anniversary of the Westray mine disaster.

The tragedy claimed the lives of 26 miners and plunged the community of Plymouth, Nova Scotia into a state of grief. Sadly in many ways the healing process will not begin until an ongoing public inquiry has done its work and miners' families have answers to the most basic questions-why?

As a guest in the riding of Central Nova last summer I was struck by the enormous sense of community and warmth among the people who had to bear this tragedy. The fact that hazards of mining are well recognized does not make the tragedy any easier to bear.

It follows that today our sympathy should be with the miners' families and the community as they commemorate those who died. We should also recognize the courage of not only those who labour far beneath the earth's surface but of those who risked their lives in an effort to rescue the survivors of the blast.

I take this opportunity to pay tribute to the victims of the Westray disaster, the families and the community still mourning the 26 men who lost their lives underground.

Health Care

[John Maloney, Liberal, Erie, ON]

Mr. Speaker, our health care system is one of Canada's proudest and most envied achievements. Every Canadian has a right to receive the care he or she needs when sick, regardless of personal circumstances. It is an affirmation of Canada's commitment to human dignity.

The constituents of Erie were concerned about the future of the health care system. Unlike Bob Rae's government, the Ontario Liberals have a plan to protect the province's health care system.

I am pleased to see that today Ontario Liberal Lyn McLeod announced her vision of health care for the province, including the establishment of a health research and development council, a call-in care pilot project, expanded 911 and restoration of health care coverage for out of country emergency services.

Medicare was introduced and developed by a succession of Liberal governments, providing a tangible example of the commitment of all Liberals to compassionate public policy.

The government also has plans for the well-being of Canadians. We will not withdraw from or abandon the health care field. We will not accept the notion of a two tier health care system, one for the rich and one for the poor, one for the advantaged provinces and one for less advantaged provinces.

Thanks to the government and the plans of Lyn McLeod's Liberals, Erie constituents can put their fears of a Bob Rae health care system to rest.

[Rose-Marie Ur, Liberal, Lambton—Middlesex, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I have learned that Ontario NDP Premier Bob Rae is campaigning today in my riding of Lambton-Middlesex. I imagine Mr. Rae is also continuing with his dialogue of misinformation with respect to federal funding for health and how this is supposedly resulting in hospital cutbacks in long term care and so on.

Let me set the record straight. The federal commitment to medicare in Canada and in Ontario is as strong as ever. Contrary to what Mr. Rae has been spreading, federal EPF health transfers to Ontario have been rising over the term of this government. At the same time the Ontario government has been cutting the amount it spends on health care.

By rolling all transfers into one, the Canada health and social transfer, the federal government is strengthening its ability to enforce the Canada Health Act.

Liberals do not need to take any lessons from Mr. Rae on medicare. After all, Liberals introduced the Canada Health Act in 1984. We have always defended strong and reliable funding of medicare and we always will.

Transfer Payments

[Lucien Bouchard, Bloc, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, in its first budget in February 1994, the federal government announced it was cutting an additional $2 billion from its contribution to provincial social programs in 1995-96 and 1996-97. In its second budget, it hit the provinces a second time by offloading its deficit in the form of new cuts that will total $2.5 billion in 1996-97 and $4.5 billion in 1997-98.

My question is directed to the Minister of Finance. Would he confirm that according to the distribution formula for the Canada social transfer in Bill C-76, the latest budget's additional cuts in transfer payments to the provinces will, next year alone, result in a shortfall of $650 million for Quebec?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, next year, I believe the shortfall for Quebec will be about $350 million.

In fact, this amount is well below 2 per cent of Quebec's revenues. If we consider the cuts imposed on other provinces, Quebec has been treated very well.

[Lucien Bouchard, Bloc, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, I challenge the minister to deny what I am going to say, considering what I just said. Under the item "transfer payments to the provinces" Quebec's loss, for this year alone, will be $650 million. That is what was said, Mr. Speaker.

And I would ask the Minister of Finance to confirm that over the next three years, additional cuts announced in his first two budgets will mean, in the case of Quebec, a total shortfall of more than $3 billion in funding for health care, post-secondary education and social assistance.

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, we have had this debate in the House before. I must say the Leader of the Opposition is just tossing off figures at random. No decision has been made concerning transfer payments for the years after the first year in which cuts will be made. It is quite clear that we are going to negotiate with the provinces and subsequently reach a decision.

Now I would like to ask the Leader of the Opposition the following question: Is he saying this is the way he wants these cuts? That is certainly not how we see it.

[Lucien Bouchard, Bloc, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, I must say I understand why the Minister of Finance is too embarrassed to admit that these figures were taken directly from his own budget.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

[Lucien Bouchard, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

I would refer the minister more specifically to page 17 of his budget speech, where he announced that he was prepared to fund social assistance the same way the government funds transfers for health and post-secondary education, in other words, on a per capita basis, as opposed to real need.

Consequently, would the Minister of Finance agree that based on these criteria, the main victim of the cuts in his latest budget will be Quebec, which in 1997-98 will be saddled with 41.7 per cent of the cuts or $1.9 billion, and that this is why he refuses to discuss these cuts publicly within the framework of a federal-provincial conference to be held before the referendum?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, once again, the Leader of the Opposition is creating a problem where none exists, perhaps because he cannot find enough issues to criticize. First of all, I said that I was prepared-and it is my intention-to have a federal-provincial conference with my counterparts, as soon as all provinces have tabled their budgets. The provinces asked us to wait until they had all tabled their budgets.

Second, the Leader of the Opposition is drawing certain conclusions from talks that have yet to be finalized. Yes, we did provide overall figures, but it is clear it will depend on the outcome of the negotiations.

It is beyond belief to hear the Leader of the Opposition. Six provinces have said that they will have to absorb over 217 per cent of the cuts. It is a mathematical impossibility.

What amazes me is not that an individual minister of finance or premier of a province would fall into that trap, but that the Leader of the Opposition would basically say that he has so little faith in the capacity of Quebecers to negotiate on their own behalf that he would concede the argument beforehand. It is the same kind of thing that he has done consistently, that is he has conceded that Quebec cannot make it in Confederation. Let me tell him as a Quebecer that Quebec can make it in Confederation.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

Charles R. Bronfman Foundation

[Suzanne Tremblay, Bloc, Rimouski—Témiscouata, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Canadian Heritage.

While the francophone and Acadian communities struggle to conserve their rights with exceedingly limited financial resources, we discover that, under the 1994-95 budget, the Minister of Canadian Heritage subsidized the CRB Foundation to the tune of $2 million from official language programs in order to finance a series of historical vignettes to be broadcast on television.

How can the minister justify such a substantial grant-$2 million-to the Bronfman Foundation, which is managed by Tom Axworthy, the brother of the Minister of Human Resources Development, whereas in 1992-93, the last year the public accounts recorded a figure, this organization received only $200,000, or ten times less?

[Michel Dupuy, Liberal, Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Speaker, I am the Minister of Canadian Heritage and proud to be. I am interested in Canadian heritage. When a group is prepared to help put our heritage in a historical context, I support it. This Bronfman Foundation project is a magnificent one, but clearly of no interest to our colleagues. These vignettes have done a lot of good in teaching people about the history of Quebec and of the rest of Canada.

[Suzanne Tremblay, Bloc, Rimouski—Témiscouata, QC]

Mr. Speaker, while the budget of all the organizations receiving government support has been significantly cut, are we to understand that the more than substantial increase given the Bronf-

man Foundation has to do with the particular lobbying abilities of its officials or with the imminence of the Quebec referendum?

[Michel Dupuy, Liberal, Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Speaker, the government's support is based on only one thing: the quality of the product they have put on the screen.

Pensions

[Preston Manning, Reform, Calgary Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the President of the Treasury Board is one of the chief ministers responsible for fiscal restraint in government. That means one of his jobs is to promote the prudent use of taxpayers' funds among public servants and the recipients of government services.

There is no way the minister can do that effectively while at the same time promoting and defending an obscenely generous pension plan for members of Parliament.

Does the President of the Treasury Board appreciate that for him job one in promoting fiscal responsibility is to kill the Cadillac MP pension plan?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for Infrastructure]

Mr. Speaker, as I have indicated many times before, the government promised during the election campaign that it would deal with the issues of double dipping and a minimum age for pension.

We have dealt with the commitments, the obligations we have made. We have gone beyond that because we recognize this is a period of fiscal restraint. It is a period of time we need to get our house in order, to get the deficit and the debt down. We have reduced the contribution, the members of Parliament compensation, by some 33 per cent.

[Preston Manning, Reform, Calgary Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, if the minister is going to defend the plan he is going to have to defend the real numbers.

These are the numbers: $2.5 million for the Deputy Prime Minister, $3.1 million for the Minister of Health, $3.6 million for the minister of public works, $3.9 million for the minister of fisheries, $4.5 million for the member for Sherbrooke-

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.