Debates of June 14th, 1995

Education And Social Assistance

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, I do not think anybody should prejudge the process. As I read the recollections, I was very interested in the comments of the minister in Quebec who is responsible for employment matters, who talked about the need to come together to look at more active programming for employment and to try to find ways in which we can facilitate investment in individuals.

This is the same thing we have been saying for a year and a half. It is nice to see that there is now a coming together of minds on this matter from the Government of Quebec and that it now shares the point of view that we need reform and reorganization.

I am sure that if we can organize the goodwill we will find effective ways to give Canadians a common, co-operative, united framework to approach some of our most important social concerns.

Somalia Inquiry

[Jack Frazer, Reform, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday it was revealed that Private David Brocklebank, who was acquitted of all charges in the death of Shidane Arone, was charged because of his conduct in the First Airborne video.

Despite the minister's promises of openness, these new charges were kept secret from the public and even from the Somalia commission itself.

How can the public have any confidence in the government's commitment to the Somalia inquiry when it insists on acting behind its back?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, Private Brocklebank was informed, as was his counsel, on April 7 that two charges were to be laid under the National Defence Act for conduct unbecoming a member of the Canadian military.

Those charges were held in abeyance pending a legal review of the case to see whether or not proceeding with that disciplinary action would prejudice the commission.

The legal opinion was that proceeding with this would not prejudice the commission. As a result, the charge was allowed to go on in conformity with the normal practices of the National Defence Act and the nature of this particular offence, which in no way related directly to the criminal charges and others related to the death of Mr. Arone.

Therefore, this particular matter was allowed to proceed and a summary hearing was heard. This was all in accordance with normal practices. It is not anyone's intention to go behind anyone's back. We did this in the normal way.

[Jack Frazer, Reform, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Mr. Speaker, as I understand it, this was a weapons handling charge. If such charges are not included in the Somalia commission inquiry, they should be.

The minister has frequently told this House, and yesterday said it to the face of a tearful wife and mother, that he cannot prejudice the inquiry. In my view, keeping the Brocklebank charges secret for two months prejudices the inquiry. Mark Boland's imprisonment prejudices the inquiry. Barry Armstrong's sudden deployment to Bosnia prejudices the inquiry.

How can the minister defend the contradiction between his professed wish for openness and his department's policy to lock up, shut down, or ship off eyewitnesses to the events in Somalia?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I reject categorically all of the accusations contained in the hon. member's question.

It seems that the hon. member, for whom I have great respect as an individual, and the members of his party are more interested in putting partisan considerations before justice.

Canada Social Transfer

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Kamouraska—Rivière-Du-Loup, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Finance.

During the year and a half that the federal government has been in power, the reforms it has proposed have had only one purpose: to increase its inefficient intervention in several of the provinces' jurisdictions. More than ever, flexible federalism means that Ottawa decrees and the provinces must accommodate.

Will the minister acknowledge that the Canada social transfer not only offers nothing new or of interest to Quebecers, but also, on the contrary, that it brings the federal government closer and closer to its dream of creating a highly centralized Canada, which is unacceptable to Quebecers?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member has contradicted himself in his own question. What we are in the process of doing with the Canada social transfer is, first of all, keeping the fiscal burden under control, which will enable the federal government to continue transferring money for social programs to the provinces.

Second, what we are trying to do is give the provinces the flexibility they need to adapt their own programs to the needs of the people. I must say that I find it utterly absurd that a Bloc Quebecois member is actually criticizing the federal government for having given more power and flexibility to the provinces.

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Kamouraska—Rivière-Du-Loup, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the real contradiction lies in the fact that it is irresponsible to impose national standards without pledging the corresponding funds.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Kamouraska—Rivière-Du-Loup, QC]

Will the minister not admit that everything that his government has done since it was elected, the single window

concept, the rationalization of employment centres and the creation of the human resources investment fund, goes totally and utterly against the consensus in Quebec, which is that Quebec must gain full power over labour?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

On the contrary, Mr. Speaker. Everything we have done, everything we have said, whether it was regarding single window service, the fund for entrepreneurs or community initiatives, has addressed the requests and wishes of local communities.

Not only are we in the process of decentralizing, but we are doing it because that is what the regions have requested.

Let us be very clear what the member said in the preamble to his statement. He said that he, on behalf of his party, was against national standards in the CHST. The most important national standards in the CHST are the principles of the Canada Health Act. This government stands behind the Canada Health Act and so do the people of Quebec. He had better learn that.

Transport

[Randy White, Reform, Fraser Valley West, BC]

Mr. Speaker, this highway 104 controversy is not going to go away, much to the dismay of the minister of public works. As I stand here, a lawsuit is being initiated by the Citizens for Fairness in the Wentworth Valley of Nova Scotia naming the minister of public works as a defendant. This moves us not only into morally and ethically wrong behaviour but also illegal actions.

Since the Prime Minister refuses to call in the ethics counsellor, why will this government not cut its losses on this mess now and commit to returning the misappropriated funds back to the Wentworth Valley bypass project on highway 104?

[Douglas Young, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, the question of allocation of funds to highway construction, as the hon. member should know by now, is a provincial responsibility.

In the event that the Government of Nova Scotia or any other government in the country wishes to discuss the reallocation of funds, we will be prepared to do that, as we have done on dozens of occasions as a federal government over the past 10 years.

The case in question the hon. member refers to is a situation that arose when the Government of Nova Scotia decided to reallocate funds within the existing agreement. Section 12 of that agreement allows for the reallocation of funds by consensus.

If the Government of Nova Scotia wishes to reallocate funds to this or any other highway, as is the case with any other province where a similar agreement exists, we will look at it, because that is what the hon. member often refers to as being flexible federalism.

[Randy White, Reform, Fraser Valley West, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister's ethics counsellor gets about as much work as the Maytag repairman. The only difference is the Liberal machine is in desperate need of repair.

I wonder if corruption is a federal or a provincial responsibility.

Since the Minister of Transport is also going to be named as a defendant, I will place the question to him. Will he recommend to the Prime Minister that he tell the public works minister to return the money he diverted to buy votes in his riding or at least step down pending the results-

[The Speaker]

Colleagues, I would urge you not to impugn motives of any kind in your questions.

I would ask the hon. member perhaps if he could rephrase that question, but just the question with no preamble.

[Randy White, Reform, Fraser Valley West, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I did not mean to suggest the minister of public works would buy votes.

Would the Prime Minister be willing to look at the situation and ask the minister of public works to step down pending the investigation of the auditor general's report, pending litigation, pending the complaints from the Reform Party, pending Liberal-

[The Speaker]

The hon. Minister of Transport.

[Douglas Young, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, to have the hon. member stand in this House and lecture us on ethics is somewhat akin to listening to a tom cat talk about morality.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

Job Creation

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday in the House in response to a question from the official opposition, the Minister of Finance admitted, for the first time and publicly, that Canada's economy is in a slowdown and might not recover until next year.

My question is for the Minister of Finance.

Given that, for the first time, the minister is admitting that the economy has slowed down and that, furthermore, there has been no net creation of jobs in the past six months, is the minister

prepared to drop his lax approach and come up with some concrete support and job creation measures?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday I said the economy had clearly slowed down, I did not say that the slowdown would last the entire year. In the opinion of most economists, it is a pause, and we should see a recovery in the third and fourth quarters.

Having said that, as I repeated yesterday, I point out that over 220,000 jobs were created in the private sector, for example, in the past year-a fairly substantial number.

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in the opinion of the Minister of Finance, the economy is in a slowdown at the moment. In his recent budget, he predicted that the 1996 slowdown would be even worse than this year's. Most economists are talking about a possible recession in Canada for 1997.

I would ask the Minister of Finance where the unemployed should look for hope.

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development- Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, hope may be found in the infrastructure program the government has set up. Hope may be found in the job creation programs of the Minister of Human Resources Development. Hope may be found in the programs of the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans and of the Minister of Agriculture. Hope may be found in the high tech policies of the Minister of Industry. Hope may be found in the policy of this government, which reversed the policies of the previous government in order to give Canada a real future.

National Parks

[Cliff Breitkreuz, Reform, Yellowhead, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the director of the mountain parks division of the department of heritage recently accepted a Japanese junket courtesy of CP Hotels. Canadian Pacific, it turns out, has major development plans in the Jasper and Banff national parks, which come under the mountain parks division of the heritage department.

Why was a top Parks Canada official allowed to accept a nine day junket from a corporation which has direct business dealings with his division?

[Albina Guarnieri, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Speaker, I will be happy to take note of the question and get back to the hon. member.

Is the hon. member suggesting that parks officials should not be promoting tourism in his region?