Debates of June 19th, 1995

Canadian Unity

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the date will be quite clear, and I suppose that they are going to enlist the help of their big brother at Power Corporation for their campaign.

How can the minister claim that the Privy Council will only spend $2.5 million on the referendum, when his deputy minister, who appears better informed than he is, states that 17 per cent of the Privy Council's professionals are working mostly on the Canadian unity issue and, for the minister's information, 17 per cent of the Privy Council's total budget represents at the very least $14 million?

[Marcel Massé, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada]

Mr. Speaker, as I mentioned, the figures in the estimates were drawn up to the best of our knowledge, given what we knew at that time about the Parti Quebecois's strategy.

And anybody who spends between $8 and $10 million on regional commissions, which were nothing more than propaganda machines, is in no position to grill us about our figures.

Aboriginal Affairs

[John Duncan, Reform, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the minister of Indian affairs met with the B.C. aboriginal affairs minister this morning. The provincial minister is here to insist on greater federal participation in settling native disputes in B.C. A native spokesman has said since last week that Adams Lake residents will have their access blocked today at 5 p.m. unless the federal minister involves himself in the dispute. There is urgency.

How is it the federal department can promote and participate in all land claim and self-government negotiations in B.C., but when the public is held to ransom the minister asserts that he has no legal, moral or statutory obligation to get involved?

[Ron Irwin, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for his question. The minister of aboriginal affairs is here from B.C. Even though we are not of the same party, I want to commend him for his excellent work in a very tenuous situation.

I will go back to the basis of the complaint. This is an off reserve problem. As the member knows there have been archaeological finds there. As a matter of fact if he reads the Kamloops news it is fairly correct. Kyle Boxrud plans to build a 60-unit recreational vehicle park but has been ordered to have an archaeological study conducted to determine the heritage value of the land. He has been told that by the province. He has been told to discontinue his work. He has refused to do the study and he has also refused to discontinue his work.

That is the issue. It is an off reserve issue. We are prepared to work with the province. I want to make clear that this government and this minister do not negotiate over barricades. We are a country of law and order and no barricade will get the promise of a solution. We have had a person there at two of the meetings. We are prepared to help facilitate a settlement with the clear understanding that barricades in Canada gain nothing from my department.

[John Duncan, Reform, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I understand a lot of private property owners not involved in the archaeological dispute are suffering as a result of this dispute.

The minister has raised expectation levels in B.C. beyond what governments can deliver. A Penticton band spokesman is now saying that the B.C. treaty process is falling apart as he earlier predicted.

Other than to blame Reform, as the minister did Friday, what is the minister doing to reduce expectations and create a sensible and publicly acceptable set of negotiations in which the rule of law is rewarded and protests and blockades are not?

[Ron Irwin, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member is referring to the broader issue of the B.C. negotiations. All Canada knows that it was not this government that really started the negotiations. We are doing modern treaty in British Columbia, contemporary treaty addressing the spirit of intent.

I would advise the hon. member that there was a four-hour meeting with the First Nations from B.C. this morning with the minister and deputy minister. I thought the meeting was positive. If he blames us for enhancing expectations, if we as a government can collectively raise the spirits of aboriginal people, if we can restore values and that is raising expectations, that is what we are here for in the House of Commons.

Bovine Somatropin

[Michel Daviault, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Health.

The Food and Drugs Act, which comes under Health Canada, prohibits the sale of the synthetic hormone somatotropin, given, as the minister has said, that Health Canada's study of its impact on humans and animals has not yet been completed.

Would the minister confirm that no Canadian can consume dairy products from cows treated with the synthetic hormone somatotropin?

[Diane Marleau, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, the matter is still being studied. The product will be approved once Health Canada scientists have determined that it is safe and effective.

[Michel Daviault, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

Mr. Speaker, how does the minister explain a letter dated October 2, 1986 from Health Canada signed by Mr. Mitchel, the director of the Bureau of Veterinary Drugs, permitting milk made with synthetic somatotropin to be marketed as unprocessed milk without any warning to consumers?

[English]

[Diane Marleau, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, I will say, in English this time, that rBST is under review by Health Canada. The scientists at Health Canada are doing their work and a notice of compliance will not be issued until they are satisfied that rBST is safe and efficacious.

Labour

[Andy Scott, Liberal, Fredericton—York—Sunbury, NB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Labour.

Because of an increasing use of technology in the workplace we have witnessed an increase in global structural unemployment. In response to this the government struck an advisory group last fall to make suggestions to the government on working time and the distribution of work.

Would the minister inform the House of the government's intentions relative to the recommendations of the Donner report on working time and the distribution of work?

[Lucienne Robillard, Liberal, Minister of Labour]

Mr. Speaker, the question by the hon. member for Fredericton-York-Sunbury is particularly relevant, because it concerns a matter currently under consideration in a number of workplaces: hours and distribution of work. The report was distributed widely, in a number of areas to encourage public debate by provincial governments, unions and business.

Certain advisory bodies are currently examining the report, including the Canadian Labour Force Development Board and the Canadian Labour Market and Productivity Centre. We also plan to support pilot projects at the Department of Human Resources Development on testing hours of work. Finally, there are also recommendations on changes to the Canada Labour Code, and we have submitted them to the advisory group, which comprises labour and management, for recommendations to the Minister of Labour.

Immigration

[Art Hanger, Reform, Calgary Northeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the immigration minister told this House a week ago that in 1994 he had issued minister's permits to about 7,000 people who were initially denied entry into Canada. We have obtained a list of just who those people are and I find it and the minister's actions deeply disturbing.

Why did the minister give permits to 147 people who were caught working illegally, to 129 people who came into Canada with fraudulent papers and to 354 people who have engaged in a pattern of criminal behaviour?

[Sergio Marchi, Liberal, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member is distorting the purpose in the execution of the ministerial permits.

Clearly, we do not go looking for people with fraudulent documentation. In fact, this government has been proactive on interdiction. In 1990 there were some 8,000 illegally documented individuals coming into Canada. Through that active program, last year we reduced it to some 3,000 individuals.

If the interdiction program is bad, why is it then that governments in the United States, Holland and Australia want to duplicate what Canada has been able to do and do well?

[Art Hanger, Reform, Calgary Northeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, permits were issued to 524 people who posed a health threat. Seven people were engaged in acts of terrorism and subversion, 1,049 were convicted of an offence that carries less than a 10 year sentence and 10 people had been previously deported. I have just scratched the surface.

Why has this minister refused to intervene even once to kick dangerous criminals out of the country when he intervened 7,000 times last year to let these sorts of people in?

[Sergio Marchi, Liberal, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, when the hon. member scratches the surface, other people scratch their heads in disbelief.

Ministerial permits are used across the country and internationally. They are not simply permits which are at the discretion of the minister, the discretion is also delegated to officials. The fact that they have been used 7,000 times for legitimate purposes is very different from the kind of accusation which is being levelled by the hon. member.

When he suggests that we allowed in seven individuals who had been active in terrorism he is, in a certain sense, misleading Canadians into believing that somehow their security is at risk. Some of these individuals were called by the House of Commons human rights committee. Some individuals came here for multilateral peace discussions from the Middle East. Some individuals came to testify to various human rights committees about the situation in Latin America. Some individuals came here to fundraise for the Jesuit college. These are the kinds of individuals who were let in. It was for the right reasons, not for the kind of innuendo for which the hon. member and his party are well known.

The Environment

[Monique Guay, Bloc, Laurentides, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of the Environment.

On June 9, the minister said, and I quote: "We have taken the position at the EPA hearings currently going on in Washington that we would rather see to the disposal of our PCBs ourselves".

Will the minister admit today that the Canadian government never participated in EPA hearings, contrary to what she claimed in this House?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, I personally wrote these words to Carol Browner while these hearings were being held. I have the letter, if the hon. member wants to see it.

[Monique Guay, Bloc, Laurentides, QC]

Mr. Speaker, how can the minister reconcile her answer with the contents of a letter by Tony Barney, chief of operations at the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, who maintains that no Environment Canada official appeared before the panel he chaired, and that no letter was received from this department?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, perhaps he should talk to his boss.

Royal Canadian Mounted Police

[Chuck Strahl, Reform, Fraser Valley East, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Human Resources Development.

The minister is adamant that he must bring in Bill C-64, the employment equity bill and he is equally adamant that this will not mean hiring quotas, but he is not right. Let me give him an example. Seventy-four per cent of all new recruits to the RCMP training academy in Regina this fall must be from the designated groups. In other words the RCMP has declared the winners before it has even held the exams.

How can the minister say these are not quotas and how can he be sure these people will be the best qualified to be RCMP officers?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, first I would like to point out to the hon. member that my very distinguished colleague, the solicitor general, is responsible for the RCMP. I am very pleased to see that he is already taking measures before the legislation is even passed by the House to ensure that fair and equal opportunity is being provided through the various services of the federal government.

The mythology and illusion the Reform Party perpetrates throughout the country is that somehow quota is part of the bill. I want to underline that quota is not mentioned in the bill. It is not designed for that purpose. It is designed to set up a system whereby we can work with employers in both the public and private sectors to ensure that barriers which apply to all workers can be reduced. In that way everyone can be given the full opportunity to advance to their level of talent and ability. It will ensure that nobody is discriminated against as they have been in the past.

[Chuck Strahl, Reform, Fraser Valley East, BC]

Mr. Speaker, everyone wants to ensure equal opportunity but the trouble is that this type of policy and this bill will enact quotas in Canada. Let me give the exact figures to the minister for his consideration. This fall 112 new recruits will be visible minorities, 112 must be aboriginal and 95 recruits must be women. It could me more. Maybe it should be more, maybe less.

The point is this: Why does the minister continue to say that there are no quotas when there are numbers like this that must be filled and prove that his bill and his policy means quotas for Canada?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, I say with deference that the hon. member's second question shows how ignorant he is of what is in the bill.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.