Debates of June 22nd, 1995

Chile's Accession To Nafta

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

We know that Quebec is a member of NAFTA, just like Prince Edward Island. Given that trade between Canada and Quebec is 153 times greater than it is between Canada and Chile-since we are talking figures here, it should be clear-and given that 250,000 workers in Ontario owe their living to the trade relations between Ontario and Quebec, my question is as follows. In the light of the stakes, will the Prime Minister tell us-yes or no-as the Prime Minister of the rest of Canada, after sovereignty, whether he will assume his responsibilities and see that Quebec's entry into NAFTA is facilitated?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I am sitting pretty now. The Bloc Quebecois, the official opposition, wants me to remain Prime Minister of Canada to defend the interests of Quebec. That is quite something.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Saint-Maurice, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the best way for Quebecers to ensure I remain Prime Minister of Canada is to remain Canadians.

Government Policies

[Preston Manning, Reform, Calgary Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, while Her Majesty's temporary opposition focuses on breaking up the country, our job here is to focus on issues essential to maintaining and advancing this country.

One of those issues is correcting deficiencies in the federal administration. The Minister of Canadian Heritage is lost in a cloud of conflict of interest. The defence minister is in the dark on Bosnia and Somalia. The minister of human resources has bungled social reform. The health minister has only band-aid solutions to health care. The minister of Indian affairs is sleep walking to a crisis in B.C. and the minister of public works is mired in patronage in Atlantic Canada.

Will the Prime Minister shuffle the chairs on the deck of the Titanic and relieve any or all of these ministers of their responsibilities over the summer?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

If the leader of the Reform Party really wants to become the leader of the second party, he should talk about something else because that issue is not producing a desirable effect. He is 10 points behind the Tories in the Gallup poll today.

I would give a little advice to the leader of third party. He should do what he intended to do just as he has done today. He scored more when he tried to create a better atmosphere in the House today when he agreed to proceed with the bill on DNA. That is the type of opposition that will increase the stature of the leader of the third party, then he would stop dropping in the polls. The rest of the time he chooses to repeat the same thing and he does not score with it. He should find a new tune.

[Preston Manning, Reform, Calgary Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I would remind the captain of the Titanic it is a short step from being on top of the mountain to being over the hill.

Let me turn to the fiscal administration of the government. The Prime Minister has been strangely silent on the fact that Canadian exports fell in April for the third month, that wholesale trade has dropped sharply, that employment levels have been flat since November, that retail sales are stagnant and that housing starts are at their lowest point since 1982. It is quite apparent there was a gross deficiency in the fiscal planning of the government and that the finance minister did not go far enough fast enough in his budget. The chickens are coming home to roost.

My supplementary question is: Will the Prime Minister now direct the finance minister to present this House with a midcourse correction and have it ready when we reconvene this fall?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, you are very generous with the nature of the supplementary questions today.

The leader of the third party forgot to say that the OECD report published this week said the economic performance of Canada will be the best of all countries in the OECD ratings. The Minister of Finance had a very good budget which was extremely well received. We are on target. Our target to reduce the deficit to 3 per cent of GDP will be met next year as we predicted. Investment will carry on. Interest rates are going down at this moment, which is significant. A two point lower interest rate will help to stimulate the economy.

I have a lot of confidence in the Minister of Finance. He is doing a very good job.

[Preston Manning, Reform, Calgary Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister will not fix the cabinet nor will he fix the budget. So let us turn to the government's administration of the democratic process of this House.

Yesterday the Prime Minister was confronted with the broken red book promise on free votes. In reply the Prime Minister protested that he let government MPs vote on certain amendments earlier in the week. The Prime Minister said he let them vote. The MP's right to vote in this House is not some privilege granted to him by the executive. It is a right that comes from the people and MPs have the right to exercise their vote without threats of punishment or discipline.

Will the Prime Minister end this session on a positive and democratic note by turning to the backbenchers in his own party and assuring them of their right to vote their constituents' wishes without fear of threats or punishment from the Prime Minister or the whip?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the leader of the third party has a very broad shopping list today. He is trying to recuperate. Sometimes it is good to climb a mountain but do not try to do it backward. He has gone from 20 to 10 and is dropping. That is not the way to get to the top.

When I talk about the democracy in this party I do not have to add anything. The leader of that party has thrown critics out of different positions, three of them. He has done it. Now he is telling me that I am too tough.

When the question was raised in the House of Commons yesterday, Liberal members reacted very positively. We have an agenda as a government. We are respecting the agenda of the government and we will carry on. When it is time for an election, I will have my red book with me and I will be able to show all the progress we have made and all the commitments we have fulfilled.

I remember the Reform Party telling everybody that political parties should not accept any money from the government. Everyone took the refunds from the Chief Electoral Officer after the last election, contrary to the sanctimonious speech of the leader of the third party, which will remain the third party.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

Employment Centres

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister.

Ignoring the real needs of the unemployed, who account for roughly 11 per cent of Quebec's workforce after five months without any job creation worth mentioning, instead of thinking about expanding the vocational guidance and counselling services currently provided to a mere 10 per cent of those who lose their jobs, the government is preparing to reduce from over a 100 to just 28 the number of Canada employment centres in Quebec.

How can the Prime Minister explain that the first thing the government does after limiting access to UI and hitting Quebec UI recipients with $725 million in cuts this year alone, is cut back the services provided to the unemployed?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, first of all, I would like to point out that no decision has been made concerning the CEC network in Quebec or anywhere else in Canada.

We are looking for a way to provide increased levels of service to our worker clients in the Province of Quebec, and I hope we can count on the hon. members' co-operation so that Quebecers can be provided with more efficient and relevant services. This afternoon, we will be meeting with Bloc members

to look at the services available and see what could be done to better meet the needs expressed.

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, after making numerous inquiries about the proposed reorganization, asking the human resources development committee for information and being assured that our caucus would be informed, we learned this morning that all CEC employees have already been told which ones will be closed, undergo changes or remain open. As for the Bloc, only this afternoon will it be informed.

How can the minister justify waiting so long to inform us, unless it was to prevent us from doing our job as the official opposition?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to provide a small word of advice to the hon. member not to get too excited, because no decisions have been taken. The decisions will be taken in order to improve the service. We have made the offer to her caucus to consult with them, which we will be doing this afternoon, to develop the best information.

I can guarantee this hon. member and all members of the House that the reorganization and modernization of the service centres will provide better service, particularly in the smaller cities and rural areas of Canada. I can make that guarantee to the member.

Economy

[Ray Speaker, Reform, Lethbridge]

Mr. Speaker, as much as the Prime Minister wants to say the economy of Canada is good, it is not.

In 1993 the government inherited promising economic growth in the country. What has happened? Instead of nurturing the recovery that was there the government continued on an old pattern of spend and tax Canadians. The only growth policy the government could come up with was to devalue the dollar, resulting in an unbalanced recovery that has been entirely reliant on exports to the United States.

My question is for the Minister of Finance. Now that the U.S. economy is slowing and exports are dropping, what will he do to avert a recession, other than devaluing the currency?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development -Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, the member's statement does not coincide with the facts.

At the time we took office unemployment was at 11.5 per cent. It is now at 9.5 per cent. At the time we took office there were 433,000 fewer Canadians working than are working today. At the time we took office growth was anemic. The fact is that we have just come off one of the best years we have seen in a decade. In fact the OECD stated only yesterday that again this year Canada would lead all the G-7 nations.

The fact is that we have had a very good record, which is due to the policies of the government. We intend to continue those policies.

[Ray Speaker, Reform, Lethbridge]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Finance can say what he wants. There was some good growth in 1994, but today it is down to 0.7 per cent, which is a multiple drop. The Minister of Finance should admit that.

What we need at this time is an economic statement from the government indicating that the government has a plan to eliminate the deficit. Can we count on the Minister of Finance to present an economic statement this fall so we can go to the people of Canada and say this is how the government will get rid of the deficit and bring in a balanced budget before the end of this Parliament?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development -Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, we have made it very clear that it is our intention to eliminate the deficit. We have also made it very clear that it is our intention to put the country back into good economic shape. That means putting Canadians to work, it means preserving our social programs, and it means giving the country hope.

It is not the intention on this side of the House to bring in the kinds of scorch and burn policies the Reform Party would advocate. It is not the intention of this party to destroy the Canadian economy and the hopes of so many young. It is the intention of this party to do what Canadians want, and that is to make Canada live up to its potential. That means that we will take on anybody in the world.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

Direct Satellite Broadcasting

[Suzanne Tremblay, Bloc, Rimouski—Témiscouata, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Canadian Heritage.

Following the public hearings regarding the draft orders in council on satellite television, Liberal MPs abdicated their responsibilities as parliamentarians by giving a blank cheque to the federal government. Unless the minister follows up on the Bloc's recommendations, the government will now go ahead

with these made-to-measure orders for Power DirecTv, in which the Prime Minister's son-in-law has an interest.

Several witnesses heard during the public hearings strongly opposed the draft orders in council, because they will eventually make us lose control over the Canadian broadcasting system. Does the minister realize that, after the recording, publishing, video and film industries, he is about to hand over to Americans the last cultural stronghold still controlled by Canadians?

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, after reading the communique released by the Bloc Quebecois this afternoon, I think that the party should be called the "blague québécoise", the Quebec joke. We held all kind of consultations, including public ones, and we received the report of a committee of experts, as well as several submissions, including some from groups such as the Consumers' Association of Canada, Friends of Canadian Broadcasting and the Conference of the Arts. Those groups urged us to accept the proposals made by the committee of experts. I should also mention the majority report tabled by the committee, as well as the report of the Senate, where the government does not have a majority. We are told that we did the appropriate thing.

[Suzanne Tremblay, Bloc, Rimouski—Témiscouata, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Senate said that these orders were unconstitutional, but that the government could go ahead with them. This is some reference!

Will the Minister of Canadian Heritage admit-assuming he can answer before it is too late, since things could change between now and this fall-that if he goes ahead with his draft orders in council, he will not only undermine the CRTC's integrity and independence, but will also postpone Canada's access to direct satellite broadcasting and allow Power DirecTv, which is an American company, to maintain and expand its illegal market in Canada?

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, I think what all Canadians need to understand is how vital this part of the information highway infrastructure is going to be to Canadians. It is for that reason that we have been very concerned and very careful about ensuring that we see the creation of a framework within which we would have a competitive and open system.

The hon. member, who makes quite bizarre allegations on this issue, is trapped in her own rhetoric. The very groups that say the most about supporting Canadian culture have supported the approach the panel of experts recommended on this case.

What is clear to all Canadians is that we favour a system in which there will be licensing, competition, better choice and lower prices for consumers. The Bloc Quebecois favours monopoly. It is as simple as that.

Transport

[Jim Gouk, Reform, Kootenay West—Revelstoke, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Transport is determined to squander a billion dollars of the Canadian taxpayers' money.

Settlement of the unconstitutional cancellation of the Pearson contract will cost taxpayers between $400 million and $500 million. Even if the government manages to get Bill C-22 through the Senate somehow, constitutional experts have said it will be thrown out of court. On top of this, the minister is determined to pay additional money to Hughes for a contract that will provide less than contracted for and that is behind schedule.

Why does the minister not cancel the Hughes contract instead of the Pearson contract and save the Canadian taxpayers $1 billion in the process?