House of Commons Hansard #214 of the 35th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was farmers.

Topics

Questions On The Order PaperRoutine Proceedings

10:15 a.m.

Reform

Garry Breitkreuz Reform Yorkton—Melville, SK

Mr. Speaker, I rise again today to ask the government House leader when I can expect to receive an answer to Question No. 137, which has been on the Order Paper since February 6, 1995.

I requested an answer from the government within 45 days and as of today 122 days have passed.

Yesterday the parliamentary secretary to the government House leader said I could expect to have an answer to my question soon. I find it hard to believe the Department of Justice does not have this information already. The minister said it is currently renegotiating financial agreements with the provinces to reimburse them for these costs.

It is vital that we have this information on the current costs of implementing the federal gun control laws before the final vote on Bill C-68.

Can the parliamentary secretary tell us what he means by soon? Will we have the answer before third reading of Bill C-68?

Questions On The Order PaperRoutine Proceedings

10:15 a.m.

Liberal

Peter Milliken Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON

Mr. Speaker, I cannot give any further undertaking to the hon. member than what I already have. I told him yesterday the answer will be provided soon. My answer is the same today.

Questions On The Order PaperRoutine Proceedings

10:15 a.m.

The Speaker

Shall all questions stand?

Questions On The Order PaperRoutine Proceedings

10:15 a.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

Firearms ActGovernment Orders

June 8th, 1995 / 10:15 a.m.

Saint-Léonard Québec

Liberal

Alfonso Gagliano LiberalSecretary of State (Parliamentary Affairs) and Deputy Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Mr. Speaker, I wish to inform the House that there has been an agreement pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order 78(2) with respect to allocation of time for the report stage and the third reading stage of Bill C-68, an act respecting firearms and other weapons. I therefore move, seconded by the Minister of Indian and Northern Affairs:

That, in relation to C-68, An Act respecting firearms and other weapons, not more than 6 hours shall be allotted to the consideration of the report stage of the said bill and not more than six hours shall be allotted to the consideration of the third reading stage of the said bill and, at the expiry of the time provided for each stage, any proceedings before the House shall be interrupted, if required for the purposes of this Order, and, in turn, every question necessary for the disposal of the report stage or the third reading stage, as the case may be, of the bill shall be put forthwith and successively without further debate or amendment.

Firearms ActGovernment Orders

10:15 a.m.

The Speaker

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Firearms ActGovernment Orders

10:15 a.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

Firearms ActGovernment Orders

10:15 a.m.

Some hon. members

No.

Firearms ActGovernment Orders

10:15 a.m.

The Speaker

All those in favour of the motion will please say yea.

Firearms ActGovernment Orders

10:15 a.m.

Some hon. members

Yea.

Firearms ActGovernment Orders

10:15 a.m.

The Speaker

All those opposed will please say nay.

Firearms ActGovernment Orders

10:15 a.m.

Some hon. members

Nay.

Firearms ActGovernment Orders

10:15 a.m.

The Speaker

In my opinion the yeas have it.

And more than five members having risen:

Firearms ActGovernment Orders

10:15 a.m.

The Speaker

Call in the members.

(The House divided on the motion which was agreed to on the following division:)

Firearms ActGovernment Orders

11 a.m.

The Speaker

I declare the motion carried.

Firearms ActGovernment Orders

11 a.m.

Liberal

Hedy Fry Liberal Vancouver Centre, BC

Mr. Speaker, on a point of order, I did not get here on time for the vote, but I want you to know that if I were here I would have voted with my party on this issue.

Points Of OrderGovernment Orders

11 a.m.

Reform

Elwin Hermanson Reform Kindersley—Lloydminster, SK

Mr. Speaker, I want to bring a procedural matter to your attention.

Bill C-68 was tabled on February 14 with a royal recommendation. The Standing Committee on Justice did not rule a government amendment calling for the appropriation of funds from consolidated revenues out of order. However, on June 5, 1995, the chairman, the hon. member for Notre-Dame-de-Grâce, ruled a series of amendments moved by the member for Hamilton Mountain on behalf of the member for Fredericton-York-Sunbury out of order as an expenditure of funds that would be necessary to affect the provisions.

On June 1, 1995, the vice-chairperson, the member for London West, with what appears to be without advice from the clerk of the committee, permitted clauses 98, 99, 100, 101, and 101.1 to be amended to replace certain duties of police officers in making the duties of firearms inspectors.

The parliamentary secretary stated that while police officers will also in some cases carry out the function of inspectors, in some areas the police are fully employed at present. These officers do not have the luxury to assume additional demands on their time. In those circumstances, inspectors will be hired and trained to enforce the Firearms Act.

I quote from the transcript of the committee proceedings:

Inspectors wouldn't be police officers. They may be in some smaller communities where the police officer could do this role, but in most communities the police officers' time is so taken up right now that to give the police officers these additional tasks would not be reasonable. In most cases they would be separate. New inspectors would be hired and trained to fulfil the role.

Obviously this new provision in the bill will result in an expenditure of funds. The Governor General has not provided the House with the required recommendation in this regard. I would quote from citation 598 of Beauchesne's:

No cases can be found of any private member receiving the authority of the Crown to propose a bill or motion involving either the expenditure of public money or an increase in taxation.

The royal recommendation included in Bill C-68 did not contemplate the appropriation of public revenue for the expenditure outlined in the government amendments G-41, G-42, G-43, G-44, and G-46.

Furthermore, the Constitution Act of 1867, section 54, states:

It shall not be lawful for the House of Commons to adopt or pass any Vote, Resolution, Address, or Bill for the Appropriation of any Part of the Public Revenue, or of any Tax or Impost, to any Purpose that has not been first recommended to that House by Message of the Governor General in Session in which such Vote, Resolution, Address, or Bill is proposed.

I will not take the time of the House, but I could also quote from citations 595 and 596 of Beauchesne's, which also verify this requirement.

The first government amendment was not ruled out of order by the vice-chair of the committee. Whether that was due to lack of experience or the lack of procedural advice from the clerk is no longer at issue here. With respect, what is at issue is Bill C-68, as reported to this House on Wednesday, June 7, 1995, is not lawful.

Mr. Speaker, I ask you to review the minutes of the committee to verify that what I have presented to you is absolutely correct and accurate.

I have one short additional comment. This bill was reported yesterday. The government has not even seen all of the amendments. Therefore, Mr. Speaker, I bring two points to your attention. Drafters have not had time to draft amendments, so they have not all been tabled. In spite of this, the government has moved time allocation and closure on this bill. If this is not illegal, it is certainly immoral.

Second, I believe that it is not only imperative but it is your duty, Mr. Speaker, to not permit debate on Bill C-68 until you have ruled on this matter.

Points Of OrderGovernment Orders

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

Don Boudria Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON

Mr. Speaker, as the Chair will recognize, this bill is not called today. Therefore, any royal recommendation that would be required, if such were required, would not be required today in any instance.

You can be sure, Mr. Speaker, because of the government's tremendous respect for the rules of the House, that the royal recommendation that is required will be provided when it is required.

Points Of OrderGovernment Orders

11:05 a.m.

The Speaker

There has been a request that I make a review of what has gone on. I will make that review and come back to the House today with my decision on this particular matter.

Criminal CodeGovernment Orders

11:05 a.m.

Saint-Léonard Québec

Liberal

Alfonso Gagliano LiberalSecretary of State (Parliamentary Affairs) and Deputy Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Mr. Speaker, I wish to inform the House that there has been an agreement pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order 78(2) with respect to allocation of time for the report stage and the third reading stage of Bill C-41, an act to amend the Criminal Code (sentencing) and other acts in consequence thereof. I therefore move, seconded by the Minister of Indian and Northern Affairs:

That, in relation to Bill C-41, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (sentencing) and other Acts in consequence thereof, not more than six hours shall be allotted to the consideration of the report stage of the said bill and not more than six hours shall be allotted to the consideration of the third reading stage, of the said bill and, at the expiry of the time provided for each stage, any proceedings before the House shall be interrupted, if required for the purposes of this Order, and, in turn, every question necessary for the disposal of the report stage or the third reading stage, as the case may be, of the bill shall be put forthwith and successively without further debate or amendment.

Criminal CodeGovernment Orders

11:10 a.m.

The Speaker

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Criminal CodeGovernment Orders

11:10 a.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

Criminal CodeGovernment Orders

11:10 a.m.

Some hon. members

No.

Criminal CodeGovernment Orders

11:10 a.m.

The Speaker

All those in favour of the motion will please say yea.

Criminal CodeGovernment Orders

11:10 a.m.

Some hon. members

Yea.