Debates of Sept. 27th, 1995

Impaired Driving

[Paul Steckle, Liberal, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Mr. Speaker, since 1980 the Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics has reported more than 100,000 charges for impaired driving in Canada every year. In 1993 alcohol accounted for one death or injury every five minutes.

Drinking and driving is the largest single criminal cause of death and injury in Canada. It is not just car related. Seventy-three per cent of all victims killed in snowmobile and all-terrain vehicle crashes had been drinking. Seventy-seven per cent of boating accidents were alcohol related.

Today I want to acknowledge the contribution made by Mothers Against Drunk Driving, MADD Canada, which has been actively working since 1981 to reduce deaths and injuries due to impaired driving and to help the victims and survivors of such tragic senselessness.

In this regard I would like to mention Lynne and David Magee and Barbara Rintoul of Wingham, Ontario, whose sons were victims of an impaired driver. These people have taken their tragedy and in dedication of young lives so needlessly lost, channelled their energy into positive action by forming the Huron-Bruce chapter of MADD Canada.

I would like to commend them for their strength at a time of such-

Referendum Campaign

[Michel Daviault, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

Mr. Speaker, even though there are no partisan signs on it, last night vandals spray painted the No slogan on my home. Unfortunately, it seems that I am not the only victim of this type of rather excessive argument from frenzied partisans. There is no question that acts like the one committed on my property are a direct result of the excessive and intolerant comments we have heard in the past few days from spokespersons for the federalist side.

The comments by Garcia, Maciocia and others, who talk of treason and of crushing their opponents, have no place in a civilized and democratic debate. It is high time, before the referendum campaign turns sour, for Daniel Johnson to show courage by calling his spokespersons to order and clearly dissociating himself from their comments and provocative gestures. Since the Prime Minister allowed himself to say: "They will get clobbered", it is obvious that some of his supporters are taking him literally.

Violent Crime

[Margaret Bridgman, Reform, Surrey North, BC]

Mr. Speaker, Jesse Cadman, Sean Simmonds, Laurie Wood, Linda Williams, Chris Lussier, Paul McDaniel, Graham Niven, Sukhjit Sangha, Pam Cameron, Mindy Tran, Melissa Deley, Melanie Carpenter and the list goes on. These are not just names. They were people with family and friends who loved and cared about them, people whose hopes and dreams and possibilities were cut short because our criminal justice system and the government's lack of corrective action failed them.

The government allows a justice system to exist which is too lenient in sentencing convicted offenders and too generous in doling out parole. It consistently fails the victim.

Steven Carpenter, his family and supporters are calling for justice system changes. It is time the government listened to the people and did something meaningful and positive.

Taxation

[Gilles Bernier, Independent, Beauce, QC]

Mr. Speaker, as the country faces a deficit and a spiralling debt, a study by the University of Quebec in Montreal reveals that we are losing billions of dollars in tax revenue because our tax laws are so generous toward large Canadian corporations. This study, in which Professor Léo-Paul Lauzon participated, looked at 767 large corporations established

in Canada and showed that our tax laws allow many businesses to pay no taxes at all despite substantial profits.

As we are about to carry out a reform of social security, we should make fewer cuts to essential services and a few more cuts to tax loopholes of all kinds, including deferred taxes. It is high time to institute a minimum corporate tax. I hope that all levels of government will have the strength and courage to make the right decisions.

Forests

[Colleen Beaumier, Liberal, Brampton, ON]

Mr. Speaker, on Thursday, October 12 I will be attending a ceremony in my riding of Brampton where In-Touch Graphics will announce its active partnership in the fight against deforestation in Canada.

In-Touch Graphics will commit itself to plant three trees for every single tree it uses for its printing requirements. This translates into 3,100 newly planted trees over the next 12 months.

Residents of Brampton can be proud that a local business is taking this environmentally responsible initiative. All Canadian companies that use large volumes of paper products should take notice and follow this example of good corporate citizenship.

Henry David Thoreau once wrote: "What is the use of a house if you haven't got a tolerable planet to put it on?" It is through responsible environmental initiatives like this one that Canadian companies can do their part to ensure that we live on a tolerable planet.

Gun Control

[Bonnie Hickey, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

Mr. Speaker, last night St. John's City Council gave unanimous support for the government's gun control initiative, Bill C-68. City council's resolution was in response to a letter from the Canada Safety Council.

The city agreed with the safety council that the failure to pass this bill would undermine the efforts of people working in the criminal justice, safety and mental health fields.

City councillors know what the Reform Party refuses to acknowledge: the majority of Newfoundlanders support stricter gun control. As a member of the St. John's Women's Council said: "Placing restraints on weapons can only help public safety".

A number of headlines from the St. John's Evening Telegram also show support: Gun control in Canada, the tougher the better'',Gun lobby scare tactics ineffective'' and ``A national gun registry? Of course, the sooner the better''.

If the Reform Party and members of the other place truly want to represent the will of Atlantic Canadians they must support Bill C-68.

Bill C-45

[Herb Dhaliwal, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I am proud to rise in the House today to speak in favour of Bill C-45, an act to amend the Corrections and Conditional Release Act.

Today many Canadians who have been victimized by crime appeared on Parliament Hill to voice their feelings and frustrations.

Bill C-45 is proof that the Liberal government has not forgotten them. The bill's intention is to make our streets and homes safer.

In our continuing efforts to strengthen penalties faced by offenders, the government has passed Bill C-37, Bill C-41 and has introduced Bill C-45.

While a strong justice system is vital in holding offenders accountable for their actions, tougher sentences and penalties are only half the solution. Prevention is the other half.

Each year Canadians spend approximately $9 billion on policing, private security, courts, corrections and insurance.

Studies such as the one conducted by High/Scope Perry reveal that high quality active learning-

Bombardier

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Kamouraska—Rivière-Du-Loup, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday, workers at the Bombardier plant in La Pocatière gave their president, Laurent Beaudoin, a lesson in democracy. They will not let their boss tell them how to vote in the referendum.

This was not Mr. Beaudoin's first attempt at manipulating his employees to make them vote according to his political convictions. Back in 1992, he wrote his employees a letter stating his support for the Charlottetown Accord. This action was denounced by the chief electoral officer at the time and Mr. Beaudoin was later convicted of violating the Quebec Elections Act.

This week, Mr. Beaudoin commented that Quebec would be too small a country for his business. Yet his business was born and raised in Quebec and has been quite successful there. The Bloc Quebecois salutes the workers who have contributed to the success

of Bombardier in La Pocatière and encourages them to remain steadfast in their beliefs. As a plant worker said, votes and work do not mix.

Violent Crime

[Val Meredith, Reform, Surrey—White Rock—South Langley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, for the third time in less than a year I rise in the House to comment on the murder of a young Surrey girl. In the early hours of September 6, 10-year old Melissa Deley was asleep in her bed, that is until Bret Neff decided to break into Melissa's house.

Neff left the house with the TV, the VCR, the family car and Melissa. Some time over the next few hours, Neff sexually assaulted and murdered Melissa.

Like Fernand Auger before him, Neff spared the Canadian taxpayers a great deal of money by taking his own life.

However we are still left with the legacy of three young Surrey girls, abducted at random by strangers from the street, the workplace and the home, sexually assaulted and murdered.

On this National Victims Day we remember those who fell prey to brutal and cowardly attacks. We must also commit ourselves in this House to ensure that Pamela, Melanie and Melissa did not die in vain.

Income Tax

[Bill Blaikie, NDP, Winnipeg—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Speaker, it has been said that the only things certain in life are death and taxes. True for most of us, but not for Canadians wealthy enough to hire lawyers to concoct a tax free non-residency under the Income Tax Act, aided and abetted by the way Canadian tax law mollycoddles such tax avoidance.

By taking up residence in tax havens, wealthy tax refugees are not legally required to file tax returns or pay Canadian income tax on the wealth they have taken out of the country, and pay a much lower rate of tax on any remaining Canadian investment income. Meanwhile, they can and do spend a lot of time in Canada with family and friends and attending to business. After years of such behaviour, they can easily decide to take up residence again and benefit from things like medicare for which they have not paid.

Canadian tax refugees, like Americans, should be obliged to continue to file tax returns and pay Canadian tax while residing abroad. We should say to tax avoiders: Hasta la vista baby, but pay your taxes first. Republicans in the U.S. call such tax avoiders traitors. Let the record show that the NDP can agree with the Republicans on at least one thing.

Quebec Referendum

[Eleni Bakopanos, Liberal, Saint-Denis, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Canadian finance minister described as a separatist dream the proposed political and economic union between an independent Quebec and Canada.

On December 3, 1993, the PQ leader himself raised serious doubts about the feasibility of such a partnership with Canada soon after Quebec's separation. He said that believing that, upon Quebec's declaration of sovereignty, we will be able to negotiate a multitude of economical and political changes with Canada is like asking for the moon.

The Minister of Finance is right: economic and political union will not be possible after the referendum because Quebec separatists want Quebec to separate, and our answer to that is No.

Société Saint-Jean-Baptiste

[Denis Paradis, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Mr. Speaker, we learned that the following Saint-Jean-Baptiste societies have joined the Société Saint-Jean-Baptiste of the Sherbrooke diocese and expressed their pride in being part of Canada.

They are the Société Saint-Jean-Baptiste of the diocese of Valleyfield and the Société Saint-Jean-Baptiste of the diocese of Quebec City, which met last weekend with the Société Saint-Jean-Baptiste of Sherbrooke, in the eastern townships, and sang the "Ô Canada".

To all these men and women who are not afraid to show that they are proud to be Quebecers and Canadians; to all our French Canadian ancestors who built this country; to Wilfrid Laurier who, almost one hundred years ago, became the first of many Canadian prime ministers from Quebec; to my friends from the Bloc Quebecois who have dreams of sitting again in this House after the next election; I want to say that, like all of you, I am very proud to be a Quebecer and a Canadian.

However, it is important that we all say no to separation.

Quebec Referendum

[Nick Discepola, Liberal, Vaudreuil, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the word "confusion" perfectly describes the precautions taken by separatist leaders to package their project so as to make it as vague as possible.

As evidence of that, let us look at the findings of a poll conducted by Créatec and made public this week. Fifty per cent of those who intend to vote yes think that separation will only occur after the conclusion of an agreement with Canada. As for the

famous June 12 agreement, only 19 per cent of the public knows more or less what it is all about.

The poll also shows, and this is nothing short of tragic, that 28 per cent of those who would vote yes believe that a sovereign Quebec would remain a Canadian province.

The whole separatist strategy is nothing but a smoke screen used to hide the real objective, which is to separate Quebec from Canada. However, Quebecers do not want that and they will vote no on October 30.

Minister Of Foreign Affairs

[Pierre De Savoye, Bloc, Portneuf, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the Minister of Foreign Affairs committed an outrageous blunder in referring to the situation in the former Yugoslavia.

What did he mean by saying that "We have not yet started killing, killing one another, and I hope that the situation of the former Yugoslavia will never apply to Canada". This statement, fraught with hidden meanings as it is, requires clarification.

The Minister of Foreign Affairs and the Canadian government ought to be ashamed of making such insinuations.

For this reason the Bloc Quebecois most strongly condemns these absolutely thoughtless words spoken by the minister during his visit to the UN. The irresponsibility of the minister speaks volumes about the no side, the intolerance, insult and abuse the no side has to offer to the people of Quebec.

Victims Of Crime

[Diane Ablonczy, Reform, Calgary North, AB]

Mr. Speaker, today the voices of victims of crime are being heard on Parliament Hill.

They are calling for more than platitudes from the government. They are demanding real change to our criminal justice system. Across the country people are outraged because they believe our courts are too lenient and that parole and statutory release have become a licence for criminals to reoffend.

In Calgary where my riding of Calgary North is located, four women have been killed in the last eight weeks. As an added insult, one of the accused killers was granted bail within one week of being charged and is back out in the community.

Canadians have a right to ask why they are not being protected from thugs and criminals.

Today, citizens from across Canada have come to Ottawa to send a message to their elected representatives. Victims of crime must come first in a system where public safety is the number one priority. Reformers say Canadians expect and deserve no less.

NORTH AMERiCAN FREE TRADE AGREEMENT

[Robert Bertrand, Liberal, Pontiac—Gatineau—Labelle, QC]

Mr. Speaker, would it be as easy for an independent Quebec to become a signatory to the North American Free trade Agreement, also known as NAFTA, as the separatists claim?

The federal finance minister said yesterday it would not. He even warned that reopening negotiations with our American and Mexican partners would put a number of sectors of the Quebec economy in a vulnerable position.

I would also like to quote James Blanchard, the U.S. ambassador to Canada, and Sandra Fuentes-Berain, the Mexican ambassador to Canada, each of whom indicated that there were no guarantees an independent Quebec would automatically become a member of NAFTA.

They expected to keep Professor Ivan Bernier quiet by keeping his study on NAFTA under wraps, but they will not be able to do the same with everyone. As the finance minister said yesterday, it is time to get rid of this myth cultivated by the separatists.

Referendum Campaign

[Patrick Gagnon, Liberal, Bonaventure—Îles-De-La-Madeleine, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the PQ Premier said in a radio interview that the National Capital Commission of Canada had sent all its employees in Hull a letter telling them not to come in on October 31 if the Yes side wins, which we know perfectly well will not happen.

Mr. Parizeau said that based on that kind of statement, they would know what to expect. After the facts were checked, the reference made by Mr. Parizeau was shown to be completely untrue, and his office even had to apologize. After the constitutional document which the PQ Premier tried to link to the Quebec Liberal Party, the Premier is back with an alleged letter that in fact never existed.

Mr. Parizeau should concentrate on explaining his separation plans to the public instead of getting involved in these exercises in scaremongering.

Presence In Gallery

[The Speaker]

I draw the attention of the House to the presence in our gallery of members of the United States Association of Former Members of Congress and Senators who are our guests in Canada.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

Canada-Quebec Economic Union

[Lucien Bouchard, Bloc, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, in an apocalyptic speech delivered yesterday in Montreal, the Minister of Finance claimed that Canada could not guarantee its present economic union with Quebec would continue because the Americans would use it as an excuse to renegotiate NAFTA. He also contended that a sovereign Quebec would have to wait a very long time before becoming a member of the World Trade Organization, which recently replaced the GATT.

My question is for the Minister of Finance. Will he acknowledge that the proposal a sovereign Quebec will make to Canada for a new economic and political partnership is entirely within the spirit of the World Trade Organization treaty and of NAFTA and would guarantee American business the same conditions of access to Canadian and Quebec markets they now enjoy?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, if there is to be an economic and political union between Canada and Quebec, that is, if Canada were to give a separate Quebec special favours it does not give other countries, the Americans and the Mexicans would insist on being at the negotiating table, just as Canada did when Mexico and the United States wanted bilateral negotiations. We said no, we had to be at the table.

Here is what Canada would run the risk of losing if it were to accord Quebec this special agreement: its agricultural policy, its cultural exemption, the Canadian Wheat Board, the financial services sector, the rules of origin for the automobile industry and, even more importantly, the binational panels protecting us against American reprisals.

As the Leader of the Opposition said yesterday, Canada's exports to Quebec represent $33 billion; its exports to the United States, however, represent $165 billion, and Canada cannot risk losing this. It is not because it would not want to, but because it would have too much to lose.

[Lucien Bouchard, Bloc, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, I think we can all see that the minister is in the same apocalyptic state as he was yesterday. The minister is grossly twisting the reality of freer trade between countries by wrongly ascribing to NAFTA the power to prevent greater integration between Quebec and Canada, as the partnership in fact proposes.

Will the minister acknowledge that his gratuitous remarks are contradicted by established rules of international trade and by the prevailing custom whereby sovereign states can conclude more complex regional agreements in parallel with other agreements such as NAFTA? Will he not acknowledge that this doctrine has even been enshrined in paragraph 4 of article XXIV of the GATT?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, as in everything else, unfortunately, the separatist movement has been overtaken by events. The GATT has been replaced by the WTO, and in article 12 of the WTO, on accession, there are no rights of succession and no principle of status quo ante .

The problem is that Quebec would be like any other country seeking membership, because there is no precedent. And Quebec would be put in the position of having to make huge concessions, first to become a member of the WTO and particularly to become a member of NAFTA. This is very clear.

[Lucien Bouchard, Bloc, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, paragraph 4 of article XXIV, which I just cited, was negotiated only last year and is currently in effect. This article provides, even in the case of a national treatment clause, for automatic exception when a parallel agreement is to be concluded between two countries, provided its intent is to free up trade. The whole point was to free up trade, not stop it. It is a bit odd to hear a government, which vehemently opposed free trade and us in order to prevent its passing, now citing it.

The Minister of Finance also intimated that the Americans could oppose a partnership agreement between Quebec and Canada the day after a yes vote. Will he not admit that the Americans, as reasonable and experienced individuals, will rather want to avoid any upset in the existing economic flow between Quebec and Canada, particularly because they will continue to enjoy the same conditions of trade and access to the Quebec and Canadian markets as they do now? Does he not see that any steps the Americans take will only be to calm the nervous and the emotional who want to refuse to negotiate and who prefer to see everything in terms of gloom and doom?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, rather than asking inflammatory questions and making speeches of this sort, he should put his cards on the table. We are talking here about the future of Quebecers. It is his duty, as one of the leaders of the separatist movement, to tell Quebecers the truth about the real consequences of independence.

If you-yes, Mr. Speaker, I am looking at you and I would much rather look at you-if you want to identify the things the Americans will attack today, and this is no figment of the imagination, they will attack agricultural policy; the dairy industry in Quebec; the cultural exemption Quebec enjoys today with regard to films, television, broadcasting, books and magazines; textiles; preferential access to American markets; the purchasing policies of the Government of Quebec and Hydro-Quebec; the binational panels. There is a whole list.